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Old 11-18-2009, 04:37 AM   #676
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Re: The well: atakdog

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Originally Posted by Luckbox Inc View Post
But real genuine faking as a villager can absolutely be correct and can be devastating to the wolves.
I've done it exactly once. So lol-obvious that Hitch (a villager) and others asked what the hell I was doing — there was like five minutes left before eod, and I needed to prevent a disaster occurring.

But it worked — I died, the seer (Sun Tzu) lived. Wolves don't handle seer fakes well.
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Old 11-18-2009, 04:40 AM   #677
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Re: The well: atakdog

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I obviously meant fake claiming as vanilla.

Can you expand on how/when its gonna be correct? Is it not a high variance move?

In that you buy the real seer one more day or risk a high % of being lynched the next day?
This is probably one of my best games ever where I faked as a villager.

https://forumserver.twoplustwo.com/59...endence+day+ww

I did it on-the-fly because a villager was about to get lynched to save a wolf and I knew it. Obviously you're reads have to be good and you have to have confidence in your reads.

In the game that I linked to, wolves made a big mistake in not killing me right after I came out and got a wolf lynched. They definitely knew that like 90% of the time that I was FOS, but all I have to do is just keep coming out with correct peeks and the longer the real seer stays alive, the tougher I'm going to make things on them, which I did. Eventually they were forced to nightkill me and then the real seer came out with basically a lock.

Obviously there is a danger if things go wrong in being mislynched.

But the simple truth is that wolves simply do not claim seer unprovoked under 95% of the circumstances that come up in ww games-- especially vanilla games. So as long as you aren't playing with people who aren't completely ******ed (which might be asking a lot these days) then the danger of being wrong shouldn't be a giant consideration. Although you definitely don't want to be wrong.

Last edited by Luckbox Inc; 11-18-2009 at 04:47 AM.
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Old 11-18-2009, 04:42 AM   #678
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Re: The well: atakdog

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a minor plus to leaving hints as a seer is that if another seer peeks you, that seer is pretty much an ultra-seer, they'll know not to cross-peek your peeks and will have twice as much info to make reads off of.

the one time i was seer i peeked another seer and decimated the wolves, atak may remember that game, it's the one we ended up losing
I remember it qualitatively, but not which game it was.

What you're describing is moderately rare, of course, but it probably happens often enough that it needs to be considered. I think I've been seer in three such games, including my very first (when I peeked swiitch, the other seer, but unfortunately he soon came out), one in which the other seer peeked me, and one in which each of us peeked the other.

And yes, when it happens and the seers live the village should win, but weird stuff happens in werewolf.
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Old 11-18-2009, 04:45 AM   #679
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Re: The well: atakdog

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even if you live long enough to come out, village lost out on data while you were hiding it

the most important thing for seer is to peek villagers that don't die before they come out

the most important thing for village is to not lynch seer or their peeks

if those 2 things always happen, we'll always get a lock

seer leaving hints can help village to not lynch seer or their peeks
The highlighted are not as important as they look. The seer can only present his data as a villager, not a seer, so they won't usually be given great weight. (Yes, villagers might work out that you're seer, but if that's the case then either your life expectancy is short or the wolves are bad enough you can beat them straight up anyway.)
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Old 11-18-2009, 04:49 AM   #680
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Re: The well: atakdog

Great well.

Just wanted to add OP is a very cool guy IRL also!
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Old 11-18-2009, 04:58 AM   #681
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Re: The well: atakdog

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Great well.

Just wanted to add OP is a very cool guy IRL also!
Thank you, good sir.

I wondered whether you might happen upon it.
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Old 11-18-2009, 04:59 AM   #682
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Re: The well: atakdog

Atak,
Just how much did you used to lie and why?
Amount of 1night stands had?
Worst thing youve done to a person?

I'll think of some positive questions to counter these ones

Youre a utilitarian, right?
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Old 11-18-2009, 05:08 AM   #683
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Re: The well: atakdog

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Youre a utilitarian, right?
It would be some seriously sick and twisted definition of utilitarianism that could justify killing 85% of humanity.
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Old 11-18-2009, 05:09 AM   #684
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Re: The well: atakdog

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You actually are pretty good at being an obv villager which is the foundation of a good villager game.
If your villager strategy is to be an obvious villager, though, how do you balance your wolf game so that you aren't an obvious wolf?
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Old 11-18-2009, 05:11 AM   #685
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Re: The well: atakdog

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If your villager strategy is to be an obvious villager, though, how do you balance your wolf game so that you aren't an obvious wolf?
Be an obvious villager there too ldo
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Old 11-18-2009, 05:12 AM   #686
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Re: The well: atakdog

just act like an obvious villager I suppose
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Old 11-18-2009, 05:16 AM   #687
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Re: The well: atakdog

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It would be some seriously sick and twisted definition of utilitarianism that could justify killing 85% of humanity.
Not that twisted, but I do think it's very wrong.

I assume atak's argument is that killing 85% of people raises the average happiness substantially, thus people on average are better off/happier.

Except total happiness should obviously be taken into account vs avg. happiness.
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Old 11-18-2009, 05:18 AM   #688
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Re: The well: atakdog

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If your villager strategy is to be an obvious villager, though, how do you balance your wolf game so that you aren't an obvious wolf?
i'll tell you when i get it

only semi been able to do it in a turbo

very very hard for me to do in long games cause i cant really fake thinking about certain things cause i wouldnt know what i would have thought of as villager, i have some nonstandard reads.

i need to be randed wolf more often to practice it more
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Old 11-18-2009, 05:21 AM   #689
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Re: The well: atakdog

total happyness of the human race behaving in a sustainable manner tends to infinity as time tends to infinity

total happyness of human race as it is going forward:very probably finite, as we'll at some point provoke our own extinction

so atak's way in theory can be better both for avg and long term total happyness.
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Old 11-18-2009, 05:21 AM   #690
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Re: The well: atakdog

I'd be pretty unhappy if 85 percent of the people I know died.
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Old 11-18-2009, 05:22 AM   #691
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Re: The well: atakdog

thats for sure pawn, you could STILL justify it long term since inifity >> any other ammount
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Old 11-18-2009, 05:23 AM   #692
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Re: The well: atakdog

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thats for sure pawn, you could STILL justify it long term since inifity >> any other ammount
infinity >>> inifity > about tree fiddy

fmp
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Old 11-18-2009, 05:23 AM   #693
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Re: The well: atakdog

Hey atak, have you ever come across a roving band of birds that can read your mind and can sing a pretty coordinated song between themselves? Damn, it's hard to even ask the question without sounding crazy.
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Old 11-18-2009, 05:27 AM   #694
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Re: The well: atakdog

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Hey atak, have you ever come across a roving band of birds that can read your mind and can sing a pretty coordinated song between themselves? Damn, it's hard to even ask the question without sounding crazy.

????
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Old 11-18-2009, 05:28 AM   #695
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Re: The well: atakdog

atak what drugs have you tried?
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Old 11-18-2009, 05:29 AM   #696
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Re: The well: atakdog

Atak,

In one of the championship games - I think the restricted post game, but I'm not 100% - you made a post where you said something along the lines of, "I'm the seer. Pay close attention to my grammar/spelling to find my peeks."

Were you trying to provide seer cover, or why did you do that?
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Old 11-18-2009, 05:35 AM   #697
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Re: The well: atakdog

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????
Nope, actual avian species. I've run into them several times in Hawai'i and twice in Texas. They sing the same song and they somehow pick up on my thought rhythms. Not the actual content of my thoughts but just the cadence. It's extremely creepy and psychotic.
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Old 11-18-2009, 05:43 AM   #698
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Re: The well: atakdog

I'm willing to consider it. Animals are smart like that. If they know enough to get out of an area before an earthquake, then there is no reason to think they can't sing a song especially for you.

They did a study with some birds where people would go up and mess with the nest. The birds remembered which people were responsible for that and then attacked those same people again but left other people alone

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/earth/wil...The-Birds.html

*I think the follow up to that experiment is to dress people the same-- maybe have them wear identical masks. And see if the birds still know who is who

Last edited by Luckbox Inc; 11-18-2009 at 05:50 AM.
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Old 11-18-2009, 05:51 AM   #699
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Re: The well: atakdog

I hate to have to mention it, but it usually only happened when I was under the influence of mj, although it did happen stone cold sober also.
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Old 11-18-2009, 05:58 AM   #700
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Re: The well: atakdog

I tend to think it has an influence on brain waves such that the birds can only pick up certain frequencies which happen more often when lifted. Next time I'll wear a tinfoil hat and see if it changes anything.
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