why?

A few posts before this, you were certain that Sun was a wolf...but yet you decide to vote whoever KFC votes? This is strange?

You just talked me right out of voting for rake

Unvote Rake

Because I reread all of Zhoarx and he's been all over the place. The only thing he's been consistent about was is insistence that Swiitch is super cleared.

He was fun and games about the playing chesss and light hearted with you....then all of a sudden.....bam....you're a wolf...and then he pairs you up with XX, which was killed as a villager. I think it was a v/v post.

So BEG, you're saying Zhaorx is a wolf so Sun is cleared?

You should probably confirm that Z is a wolf before clearing Sun like that.

Also, I still want to follow up on that late Ollie post. the wording and timing of it struck me as wolfy

also you should be clearing me as well if you think Z is a wolf, for reasons already stated itt a dozen times

I agree with KKC here, if Zhaorx turns up wolf (I fake seered him villager yesterday and think I might have been wrong), then KKC will be pretty clear in my mind.

I still think it's strange that Sun believes that Z/KKC works as a wolf pair. And there is an absolutely 0% chance I would come out and defend them both like I did as the 3rd wolf in a Z/KKC/Swiitch wolf team.

There is also about a 0% chance that WN would peek me n0 of a 13er, and I know this, so anyone thinking he was killed because his peeks look like me=wolf are wrong.

I didn't say that Zh is a wolf either...don't put words in my mouth, thank you.

I'm still trying to figure it all out...but for now, I don't believe anything that Zh says.

He is like the running back in the game that tries to "fake handoff" the ball all over the field. Here's how I see Zh play so far:

Hey....I'm here. WW is EZ....I know who all the wolves are. BTW, the wolves are "then lists partically everyone in the game". Next, D1-D4-D5....hike......Oh looky over here, it's xx/sun.......no, over here....is xx/rake.....whoa, let's stop in the middle of the field and say that Swiitch is super cleared......then do a 360 spin and viola'.....I'm going to vote whoever KKC votes.

I guess I shouldn't have "cleared" Sun, without more concrete proof than that, and I should say that Sun is on the back burner for me right now.

Zh is either a villager trying to confuse the crap out of the wolves.....or he's a wolf trying to confuse the crap out of the village. And, seeing how XX is dead and he was a villager just makes me that much more skeptical of his game play. These are my thoughts....take them for whatever it's worth to you.

The question isn't whether this is true or you know it but whether the wolves think it.

I agree that WN would not peek you n0.

i found this post . . . What do all the smart people think about the theory of this is why wn was killed?

I wasn't trying to put words into your mouth, it just seemed like that was where you were going. I figured that to clear Sun, you had to have Z as a wolf.

True, but if I'm on the wolf team, WN was not killed because he could have potentially peeked me, which I thought you or one of the other players had alluded to.

I think the most obvious possibility is Atak = village, but there is a very slight Sun = wolf possibility, which is also supported by Atak still being alive, after his fake peek of Sun = village.

Ah crud, the post I thought that WN made that could have been Sun=wolf was a mistake, so check that.

I still think Atak = village is the logical conclusion.

hey guys,

i'm here and am going to catch up on the thread now.

In a 13er (and in general, the smaller the game), the most likely reason for any night kill is (1) a seer hunt, with the second most likely being a near tie between (2a) strong, obvious villager who is onto a couple wolves; and (2b) fake seer hunt intended to clear a wolf. As a wolf I've made 2b before, but probably would do that, or 2b, in a 13er only if I were sure I couldn't find either seer hints, or anyone else looking odd.

That means the peek explanation (very likely me = village; possibly switch = wolf [though it's true WN would never peek him and Switch-wolf would know that], very outside chance Sun = village though I really can't see that) is by far the most sensible. If none of the visible peeks out there were right, it could indicate that WN was onto something, but that seems quite unlikely (in part because it works only if I'm a wolf).

I don't understand this. Z talked you out of voting Rake by being in favor of a Rake wagon -- again, you seem to be assuming Z is a wolf. Now hold on, before you say I'm putting words in your mouth too: villagers are often wrong. Z is wrong more often than anyone else, and also right more often than anyone else, because he states more opinions than anyone else. (Why he does this is a question you can ask him.) So just because you don't think Z is reliable at this point doesn't mean everything he says is wrong.

I do want to hear from Z today -- but I'm sure we will.

On more thing about the kill: if they had two somewhat credible "seers" to choose between (for example, WN and me), then they might choose to kill the one who was also right about the most other things, so that looks somewhat bad for Swiitch even if it was obviously not a peek. (On the other hand, with WN "peeking" me a kill of me would tend to make more sense, because even if it's wrong and WN is seer, they've killed a peekd villager and thus not lost a tempo -- this argues that Sun is a wolf.)

Another obvious peek the wolves could have chosen.

However, shortly thereafter:
He doesn't list Ollie at all, reducing the likelihood that that could be a real peek.

He listed ollie after himself in the list of "super cleared".

ok i'm caught up completely from about 20 minutes till end of day yesterday. i have a some thoughts, but it's somewhat unorganized.

end of day was just a jumble yesterday. I am confident that at least one wolf was in on that mumble jumble if not to divert lynching wolf rake then just to cause some confusion. axel looked weird as well as ollie. so does hitch as a matter of fact.

the well named kill is just confusing. i have no idea what his "peeks" actually are. I'm not even sure if his "peek" of atakdog is of a wolf or a villager. Basically, i'm not clearing or condemning anyone from his night kill. I don't think it's a terrible idea to keep his peeks around today.

I'm probably voting between hitch rake and scuzzle.

a couple of other things.

sun was acting really weird. he missed some things i normally wouldn't expect sun to miss. atakdog isn't acting like he normally does. too bad it's because he's sick. i really don't understand BEG and can't tell if she's being serious or not. i think she's leveling all of us but who knows. axel rake scuzzle and ollie will need to help the village out unless 3/4 of them are wolves.

people i won't vote for today:
Z
sun
atak
ollie
swiitch
KFC

so i am back from school and will be around all till EOD basically. i have to do some re-reading, but i see Z thinks i was super weird eod yesterday.

i think thats based on my unvote at end of day, i did that because i was still voting rake, and i wasnt really sure how many votes everyone had, and XX voted Rake just a few minutes before me and i feared he could save himself by getting rake killed so thats why i tried to unvote at last minute.