Quote:
Originally Posted by well named
oh so we're doing this starrazz thing right now. OK then
What happened in this game, in a nutshell, is that at the end of d1 starr only posted hte lynch result in the form of the video. I sent him a PM telling him he needed to post the lynch result in text too, because this is a vanilla game and there shouldn't be any extra requirements on players like having to watch videos. He did not agree initially and there was some back and forth and finally soah convinced him to do so.
I agree that beyond that hiccup there were no issues with the way this game was run and I'm thankful for that.
The decision to ban starrazz from modding for a while is kind of the cumulative result of the fact that basically every game he's modded there's been some issue, and he hasn't been all that easy to convince that he should learn to mod games in a fashion that's acceptable, especially for vanilla games or turbos. I don't think the moratorium on modding should be permanent, or even necessarily very long, since I think starrazz is coming along OK. I would like him (or you, since you're reading this I'm sure) to maybe play a few games, read a couple more, and mostly I just want you to realize that this pattern you are in of doing what you want and the fighting with POG and the mods about whether or not you should do things the "normal" way is unproductive for everyone.
I do realize that and will be less insubordinate in the future, sir. I am not being sarcastic I am serious.
There is plenty of room in POG for people to be creative with game modding, it's just that vanilla turbos and long games aren't really the proper vehicle.
I'll also say I'm glad you're getting support in this thread, that's a change of pace, and it means you're doing better. I also support you and think you're a fine addition to POG. I still want you to take a short break from modding and try to absorb some of this and realize that as far as the mods are concerned this issue is not going to go away except by you conforming a bit more to the normal way of doing things here.
Quote:
Originally Posted by well named
tbph I wasn't expecting to wake up to this and I wasn't really fully committed to this position, although it was discussed in the mod forum and I suppose I signed off in principle, so it's my own damn fault.
But yes, no modding of any games for some time to be determined. Obviously feedback from players in starrazz' games is welcome. I'm going to be busy today so I might not have a chance to really respond for a while
see proposal below, not meant to be a take-it-or-leave-it arrogantly submitted but rather just what I think is fair and about all I can stand to agree to in all honesty
Quote:
Originally Posted by TimeLady
Afaik, he locked his own turbo thread last night
that's true, but the 17er you locked which you could have let me save face and asked me to lock it and I could have said personal reasons, will be back sometime soon or something, but its whatever
Quote:
Originally Posted by well named
you probably don't realize or appreciate the fact that this is after like 5 attempts to get him to do things differently just by asking nicely and suggesting that he mod less and play more for a while
The TLDR for the following is perhaps "I agree to mod less and play more for a while."
Here goes...almost did this via shirtless video, I may yet...
First of all, thank you to the massive outpouring of support. I really let the community down when I first arrived here, and hardcore's post tells the unvarnished truth in a way that is uncomfortable for me and for the green moderators in a way that is necessary and the whole community should be thanking him much more than they should be thanking me.
I didn't take the time to quote meticulously every single post of support, but I hope you all accept my deep appreciation to each of you for taking the time to post your concerns and feelings, and especially for how positive they are in recognizing my responsiveness to your criticisms of past mistakes that I have made.
So to those of you who are saying "free starrazz," I love you, but the mods aren't just picking on me for no reason. I DID **** up. Hardcore correctly recognizes that although it took a while, eventually through my actions I did come to convince him and others that these **** ups were not coming from my heart being in the wrong place but rather an arrogant lack of experience on my part. That is why I think he is being so forgiving.
The moderator community is not being so forgiving and forgetful, and I can't really fault them for that, per se. I would have thought that my promptly obedient response to soah's thoughtful and convincing explanation, followed by the peace pipe that well named and I smoked in a PM, would have settled this matter. I did promise soah that if the vast majority of the 13 players in this vanilla long game didn't approve overall of my performance as mod in this game that I would take a 3-month sabbatical from modding. I was about to poll each and every one of you 2 questions: 1) Did you approve or disapprove overall of my performance as mod in this game, and 2) What specifically did I do well that I should keep doing or expand upon and/or what specifically did I do poorly that I should not keep doing and eliminate or change? I was then going to submit those results to soah along with my honest assessment as to whether I would take the 3-month sabbatical from modding or not. I did agree that either way, I would play at least 50% of the time and never mod more games than I play in. I also am aware that if I have a situation where people boycott my games and don't sign in, that this sort of thing regulates itself. But apparently some folks don't agree with that.
I made an extra effort to make peace with those I have tangled with, from crossnerd to LKJ to KruZe to amplify to well named. I did this at first because the games and their integrity mean everything to me. I grew up playing games with my mom as a substitute for having no father. In high school the only group that accepted me was the people playing dungeons and dragons so I got to play and mod that and even go to a couple gencons. Games are woven into my life, and I've been blessed with the intelligence and desire to provide those to others via modding instead of just playing and expecting others to step in all the time. It has been very rough to have this yanked from me publicly, and while I have deserved admonishment for my mistakes it seems misguided to stop this train of improvement now.
I'm goig to hope that everyone involved finds the following proposal reasonable: I am going to participate strictly as a player for the next 2 weeks solid. No signups to mod. Then, if there are no significant issues, I am going to ask for the privilege to mod 9-man vanilla turbos. If I am unjustly denied that privilege, I will exit gracefully from twoplustwo permanently. This is not an ultimatum, just a recognition that you can't beat your head against a wall forever and people can just disagree about things and I don't run this site and they do and I have to respect that. If they do decide to grant that privilege, I will give 100% to THAT for 2 more weeks. If there are no significant issues, I will then ask for the privilege to add 13/17ers to the repertoire. I will also at that point ask to observe and/or backup-mod (not even co-mod, really) other longer games that I am not playing in. This would be for a period of double--4 weeks. At the end of that, if I gather a bunch of recommendations that I should be allowed to keep modding then I will submit that to the moderating staff for consideration and ask for the privilege to run scheduled vanillas. If they don't agree to that then I part ways stage left. If they do agree then I'll do that for 3 full months, and continue to observe successful veteran moderators. All the while playing as much as I can. Only at that point would I even attempt to do a mishmash or anything fancy / non-vanilla, and only if the moderating staff thought I was ready. If they don't even after 3 months, then I'll part ways at that point.
I didn't mean that to be a bunch of ultimatums, just a recognition that if you're not making progress then you're falling behind in life (by "you're" I mean me).
What really burns me the most is that they made this decision while I was still modding the game and kept it from me almost out of fear that I might teddy it up and ruin it for everyone out of some spite. That's the only reason I can think of for them to withhold their decision to do this to me until after the game was run. There clearly is a whole different level of distrust from the moderating staff compared to the community at large, and I regret that is the case.
Last edited by starrazz; 01-01-2013 at 03:57 PM.
Reason: corrected the "thanking him more than thanking ME" line
