Two Plus Two Publishing LLC Two Plus Two Publishing LLC
 

Go Back   Two Plus Two Poker Forums > >

Puzzles and Other Games Discussions about Puzzles and other non-gambling games

Reply
 
Thread Tools Display Modes
Old 01-18-2012, 06:16 PM   #1476
DonkDonkDonkDonk
Goose
 
DonkDonkDonkDonk's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2009
Posts: 38,900
Re: Triplechain

I don't use any in the first one, other than that I use them asap.
DonkDonkDonkDonk is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 01-18-2012, 06:21 PM   #1477
BingoBango
surviving 58-0 losses
 
BingoBango's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2007
Posts: 12,326
Re: Triplechain

I just want to say, Donk, you have an A+ avatar right there
BingoBango is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 01-18-2012, 06:24 PM   #1478
kokiri
ffermwr moch
 
kokiri's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2006
Location: Less moch, more defaid
Posts: 52,227
I don't play games that aren't all 1256s in the first throw, and give up if the second throw isn't pretty good, so no chance I use one befor round 3
kokiri is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 01-18-2012, 06:31 PM   #1479
DonkDonkDonkDonk
Goose
 
DonkDonkDonkDonk's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2009
Posts: 38,900
Re: Triplechain

Quote:
Originally Posted by BingoBango View Post
I just want to say, Donk, you have an A+ avatar right there
tytyty
DonkDonkDonkDonk is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 01-18-2012, 06:33 PM   #1480
kioshk
Nixonian
 
kioshk's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2006
Location: in my experimental film
Posts: 92,304
Re: Triplechain

Even 1 4 on a 2nd roll I quit on now. I think you need to save both 4's for roll 5 on, along with some 3's.

Last edited by kioshk; 01-18-2012 at 06:38 PM.
kioshk is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 01-18-2012, 07:33 PM   #1481
TH10
Carpal \'Tunnel
 
TH10's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2010
Location: Pochgoat
Posts: 10,800
Re: Triplechain

Quote:
Originally Posted by kokiri View Post
question about advanced: I never use my powers until the first set of 4 rolls is finished. Is this good strategy?
NOTE: Ok, so I actually wrote this while watching Real Madrid-Barcelona after seeing only the post above, so some of these you have already gone through during the match, but I didn't feel like editing things out, so they will be repeated. Sorry about that.



Wow, this is really spooky, I had noticed some players getting advanced scores with multiple 3s/4s left on the board from racks 1-4, so earlier today I wrote (on paper while eating) some quick thoughts about some tips for trying to get the very high scores in advanced. Then I thought that whatever, I really don't want to write all this now on computer, I'll just let players figure it out themselves over time. But now that you asked, I guess I felt obliged to write it. Obviously there is no guarantee that I'm right, so I'll let everyone decide themselves whether to trust what I'm saying or not. As evidence to support that I might be right I would suggest looking at my top 10 advanced scores.

So, it depends on what you are trying to do. Maximizing your odds to snake both 5s and 6s, sure, but if the idea is to score 60k+, or even 70k+, then absolutely NOT. The thing is, you might get racks 5-9 with all 5s/6s/1s/2s, and then you'll leave manipulations unused while having some 3s/4s on the board, and could even miss a 70k+ game. So, you should definitely use manipulations immediately when they are needed to get rid of 3s/4s. Yes, the opposite is possible, you might get so many 3s/4s in later racks, that you can't snake both 5s/6s. But you know what, that doesn't matter, the game wouldn't have scored very high anyways with so many 3s/4s. To get very high scores (60k+, or even 70k+), you can't really have a lot of 3s/4s (well, not counting snake charmers with 4s, which are very rare), and unless something really weird happens, you must get both 5s/6s snaked. So since you can't leave 3s/4s on the board, you kind of need to trust that the racks 5-8 are good and have at least three of both 5s and 6s (using the perfect advanced setup I introduced, maybe more with non-perfect setups/other setups) for the very high scores.

Below is an example, where not using manipulations when they were first needed backfired with perfect later racks. This was played way back in July, and would've been my first 70k+ at that time, if it had been played perfectly. So I very much know how you feel kioshk , really hope you get that 70k soon. So, iirc I had already used re-roll rack in 3rd/4th rack, and 5th rack had three 4s, I was watching tv at the same time, so was just clicking buttons and thought I'd save the 4->6 later, since I thought it was very unlikely that racks 6-9 would have zero 4s. Well, there weren't any more 4s.



Some other tips to make your odds better in getting good later racks, the first one should be obvious (some of these I've mentioned before):
- DO NOT start with racks that have 3s/4s.
- If the 2nd rack has one 4 or two 3s, start a new game, one 3 is borderline ok using re-roll 3, if it doesn't turn to 4, in which case, start a new game. These are because to get very high scores, the manipulations are usually needed later, so no point in continuing a game, where you need to spend them already in 2nd rack, and there are less manipulations to get rid of 4s, so they are more important. For this reason, re-roll rack should mainly be used to get rid of 4s, if possible. For 70k+ it is probably better to start a new game even with one 3 in 2nd rack. With Premonition, you should always start with perfect first two racks.
- If there are two or more 3s/4s on the board after 4 racks after using manipulations, start a new game. Even one 3 or 4 is really not good at all (but since it is usually possible to still get 70k+ in theory, it is probably worth continuing), unless it is at the end of a 4x2-zone, but that isn't a good plan for 70k+ imo, it is completely fine for 60k+ though.
- Because realistically both 5s/6s need to be snaked for very high scores, you don't have to play the chains in order, if it is better for 1s/2s. Example below, as an exercise, how would you play a 5th rack of 12566 here?



I think this is correct:

Spoiler:


Hopefully this was helpful, and we will see more players break their personal records, and even join the 70k club. Good luck!



Quote:
Originally Posted by BingoBango View Post
I just want to say, Donk, you have an A+ avatar right there
Agreed.
TH10 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 01-18-2012, 08:21 PM   #1482
kioshk
Nixonian
 
kioshk's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2006
Location: in my experimental film
Posts: 92,304
Re: Triplechain

Jesus, I'm not reading all that. But I think I'm on the right track, close enough for government work.
kioshk is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 01-18-2012, 09:03 PM   #1483
zac777
grinder
 
zac777's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2004
Location: CA
Posts: 524
Re: Triplechain

Quote:
Originally Posted by TH10 View Post
I think this is correct:

Spoiler:

Nice, I picked exactly those moves

I've found that advanced mode rewards optimism, as opposed to normal mode which rewards flexibility. In advanced I just assume that the perfect rolls are coming, because if they're not then I'm screwed anyway.

Thanks for the strategy guides TH10, they're always very helpful.
zac777 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 01-19-2012, 04:34 AM   #1484
Gabethebabe
Malware Jedi
 
Gabethebabe's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2007
Location: In front of my monitor
Posts: 25,854
Re: Triplechain

I am mad today at a specific rack of the daily challenge.
Gabethebabe is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 01-19-2012, 06:21 AM   #1485
kokiri
ffermwr moch
 
kokiri's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2006
Location: Less moch, more defaid
Posts: 52,227
Quote:
Originally Posted by zac777 View Post
I've found that advanced mode rewards optimism, as opposed to normal mode which rewards flexibility. In advanced I just assume that the perfect rolls are coming, because if they're not then I'm screwed anyway.

.
I think it's actually the difference between big game hunting, where like you say if you don't roll perfect there's nowt you can do, and games like timed or the Dc where it is relative score which matters, not absolute score.

And +1 on the strategy guides.
kokiri is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 01-19-2012, 09:25 AM   #1486
DonkDonkDonkDonk
Goose
 
DonkDonkDonkDonk's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2009
Posts: 38,900
Re: Triplechain

I would like to take TH10's advice but since I put premonition on three days ago I have seen 1 perfect first two racks and it went sour.
DonkDonkDonkDonk is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 01-19-2012, 09:26 AM   #1487
DonkDonkDonkDonk
Goose
 
DonkDonkDonkDonk's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2009
Posts: 38,900
Re: Triplechain

ugh just saw another but clicked right past out of habit
DonkDonkDonkDonk is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 01-19-2012, 09:35 AM   #1488
DonkDonkDonkDonk
Goose
 
DonkDonkDonkDonk's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2009
Posts: 38,900
Re: Triplechain

Quote:
Originally Posted by zac777 View Post
Nice, I picked exactly those moves

I've found that advanced mode rewards optimism, as opposed to normal mode which rewards flexibility. In advanced I just assume that the perfect rolls are coming, because if they're not then I'm screwed anyway.

Thanks for the strategy guides TH10, they're always very helpful.
May I be a ****** (not that I've needed to ask before) and ask why you'd do this way?
DonkDonkDonkDonk is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 01-19-2012, 09:40 AM   #1489
DonkDonkDonkDonk
Goose
 
DonkDonkDonkDonk's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2009
Posts: 38,900
Re: Triplechain

I hate premonition!

I never get to play any TC
DonkDonkDonkDonk is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 01-19-2012, 10:05 AM   #1490
Paul101
adept
 
Join Date: Sep 2011
Posts: 746
Re: Triplechain

Quote:
Originally Posted by DonkDonkDonkDonk View Post
May I be a ****** (not that I've needed to ask before) and ask why you'd do this way?
Because of the bonus. You want the 2 in the bottom zone because you need two 2s in there in Rounds 5-8. You want the 1 in the top zone because you can fit three 1s in there in Rounds 5-8 as opposed to only two in the left zone.
Paul101 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 01-19-2012, 10:08 AM   #1491
DonkDonkDonkDonk
Goose
 
DonkDonkDonkDonk's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2009
Posts: 38,900
Re: Triplechain

oh i see

the one on the left zone is out of place, no?
DonkDonkDonkDonk is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 01-19-2012, 10:08 AM   #1492
zac777
grinder
 
zac777's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2004
Location: CA
Posts: 524
Re: Triplechain

Quote:
Originally Posted by DonkDonkDonkDonk View Post
May I be a ****** (not that I've needed to ask before) and ask why you'd do this way?
Mainly because of what TH10 said: if you don't get the right rolls your game won't be good anyway, so you might as well plan to maximize your points when good rolls come.

In his quiz it's fine to place the 5s and 6s so that they don't immediately connect to the existing chains, because if 5s/6s don't come in the next couple rolls you're dead anyway. Setting up to accommodate the max number of 1s and 2s is more important. All of this assumes that you're going for one huge score rather than trying to maximize your EV in each game.
zac777 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 01-19-2012, 11:08 AM   #1493
Paul101
adept
 
Join Date: Sep 2011
Posts: 746
Re: Triplechain

Quote:
Originally Posted by DonkDonkDonkDonk View Post

the one on the left zone is out of place, no?
I don't think so (may be wrong). In Rounds 5-8, placing one 1 in the left zone and one 1 in the bottom zone is easier than placing two 1s in the left zone.
Paul101 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 01-19-2012, 12:12 PM   #1494
kokiri
ffermwr moch
 
kokiri's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2006
Location: Less moch, more defaid
Posts: 52,227
TH10s advice seems to be a recipe for a lot of games going sour in the later rolls. I think I'd prefer to make more aggro early use of the new game button, save the powers for later and run the risk of missing a 70k game (sine with my puny powers I'm really shooting for 60k+
kokiri is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 01-19-2012, 12:18 PM   #1495
DonkDonkDonkDonk
Goose
 
DonkDonkDonkDonk's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2009
Posts: 38,900
Re: Triplechain

Quote:
Originally Posted by Paul101 View Post
I don't think so (may be wrong). In Rounds 5-8, placing one 1 in the left zone and one 1 in the bottom zone is easier than placing two 1s in the left zone.
Oh

sorry for being stupid

I'm not very good at this game!
DonkDonkDonkDonk is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 01-20-2012, 10:29 AM   #1496
TH10
Carpal \'Tunnel
 
TH10's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2010
Location: Pochgoat
Posts: 10,800
Re: Triplechain

Quote:
Originally Posted by kokiri View Post
I think it's actually the difference between big game hunting, where like you say if you don't roll perfect there's nowt you can do, and games like timed or the Dc where it is relative score which matters, not absolute score.
Yes, this is correct imo. Even in normal mode, when you are trying to get a high score, you should expect perfect rolls. Flexibility is better for Timed and DCs.

Quote:
Originally Posted by DonkDonkDonkDonk View Post
I would like to take TH10's advice but since I put premonition on three days ago I have seen 1 perfect first two racks and it went sour.
Trust me, I know how difficult and frustrating it can be to find those, it has taken 100+ games sometimes. However with practice you can click the new game really fast. What I do is concentrate on the first rack, and immediately when I see a 3 or a 4, click new game, with mouse already on the button. If 1st rack is perfect, only then I take a look at the 2nd rack. This way it is possible to go through multiple games in a single second. Doing it really fast has the drawback that sometimes you can click away a perfect start, but it happens, it really doesn't take that much time to find a new one, just patience. Also, it is very tilting, when you click for a hundred games to find one, and the after placing the 1st rack, you see a 3rd rack of 33344 (in which case I will immediately start a new game, don't want to use re-roll rack that early). But when the goal is to get 70k+ you really shouldn't waste any manipulations, if it can be avoided, and this is one way you can do that.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Paul101 View Post
I don't think so (may be wrong). In Rounds 5-8, placing one 1 in the left zone and one 1 in the bottom zone is easier than placing two 1s in the left zone.
This is irrelevant here though, since you can do either by placing the 1 to the top of left zone instead of bottom. With a 4x2-zone it is actually useful to have more options with 1s, but playing it that way has one big disadvantage. Which is demostrated with the help of the picture below.



So the bottom square of the left zone (3) is the problem, that can't be a 2 or otherwise you block some options to pair 2s in racks 5-8, it also shouldn't be a 5, since it will most likely need to be connected with 9th rack. So it has to be a 6 or a 1, with 1 it doesn't even matter which was played first, since it is the same either way you play the first 1. However the top square of the left zone can be a 1, a 2, a 5 or a 6 without causing any problems.

If you want to play the 1 to top of left zone it might be a good idea to play the 6 (or 5, depending on whichever chain is connected to that square) to the bottom before the 1 to top, otherwise you are at risk to block the option with 2s, if there are a lot of them in the first 4 racks, in which case it is even worse to block the option. However if there are a lot of 1s in first 4 racks, with this you might have to play two 1s to top zone, because you can't play two of them to left zone, which is again really bad, so that has a drawback too. So since it doesn't leave an extra square for 1s, having 2s/other 1s played correctly>>more options with the ways to play 1s later imo.

Without a 4x2-zone the 1s don't really need flexibility, since the chains don't have to be played in order, so that way playing 1s to bottom in left zone and top in right should be better, since that is better for 2s. For this setup in Timed and DCs, the flexibility with 1s should be better, but not for advanced high scores.

Quote:
Originally Posted by zac777 View Post
In his quiz it's fine to place the 5s and 6s so that they don't immediately connect to the existing chains, because if 5s/6s don't come in the next couple rolls you're dead anyway. Setting up to accommodate the max number of 1s and 2s is more important. All of this assumes that you're going for one huge score rather than trying to maximize your EV in each game.
This. Even if we assume getting both 5s/6s snaked, and not getting a lot of 3s/4s, there are still two ways to miss a high score. The easier one to screw up is not getting the full bonus. The advanced setup can support up to 24 or 25 (4x2-zone or not) bonus without blocking chains, when played correctly. These are even too high to be optimal, but both of these are still good. So when playing the chains it is important to leave all possible bonus options open as late as possible, so you are able to play as many 1s/2s scoring as possible, even better if you can handle an unlikely rack with three of a kind or even four of a kind of 1s/2s without a problem.

The good thing with this setup is that it is usually possible to keep the bonus options completely open for at least until 7th rack. There needs to be a total of at least four of either 5s/6s in racks 5-8 before you have to block any bonus options, since the first three will be needed to snake them. With the classic setup if there are two or more of outer chain in the same rack, you have to immediately block some bonus option, or put the 5s/6s beyond reach until 9th rack (211 or 221 with 2s connected in the same zone from racks 1-4).

The other way is to not be able to connect extra 5s/6s. I don't think I've ever even mentioned this before, but anyone who has used the setup should've noticed, that the aren't a lot of squares where 5s/6s won't be connected to the chains in racks 5-8. This is obviously a good thing, with classic setup the extra dice of inner chain can usually cause problems. Also some luck is needed with this, since often you have to have a zone, where there are 211 or 221 with 2s connected from the first four racks. So if you have either of those, 9th rack help will be needed to connect 5s/6s played beyond normal reach to those zones.

Last edited by TH10; 01-20-2012 at 10:41 AM.
TH10 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 01-21-2012, 07:42 AM   #1497
derwipok
Power Ranger
 
derwipok's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2007
Location: Germany
Posts: 53,897
Re: Triplechain

Looks like I would have won the challenge yesterday with a 6 in the last rack
derwipok is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 01-24-2012, 08:12 AM   #1498
zac777
grinder
 
zac777's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2004
Location: CA
Posts: 524
Re: Triplechain

Tourney sign-ups close tomorrow. Anyone else want to play? We're sitting at 25 entrants right now.
zac777 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 01-25-2012, 08:20 AM   #1499
zac777
grinder
 
zac777's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2004
Location: CA
Posts: 524
Re: Triplechain

Last call for tourney signups. 26 are in so far, 6 slots open. I'll be finalizing the bracket later today.
zac777 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 01-25-2012, 12:45 PM   #1500
zac777
grinder
 
zac777's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2004
Location: CA
Posts: 524
Re: Triplechain

The tournament bracket is set! http://challonge.com/triplechain03

I did my best to align time zones without moving anyone off their seed line by more than two slots. TH10, Alex, Paul, krohn, derwi, and mrgibson all ended up with byes. I managed to recruit just enough people so I don't get one, oops.

Follow the link above to submit your bracket predictions. Winner of the predictions gets an awesome check mark next to their name for life (see fredricksbu).

Games start on Monday the 30th, so get your brackets in before then! Good luck to everyone who's playing!
zac777 is offline   Reply With Quote

Reply
      

Thread Tools
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off


Forum Jump


All times are GMT -4. The time now is 01:53 AM.


Powered by vBulletin®
Copyright ©2000 - 2021, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.
Copyright 2008-2020, Two Plus Two Interactive