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01-16-2022 , 02:39 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Onuzq
What I eventually did to break it at the end

Spoiler:
Notice the thermo in column 7. Highest it can be is a 567 through some pairs in row 8. If you don't get that extreme, then the thermo starts with either a 1 or a 2.
Spoiler:
I had to bifurcate this spot as I wasn't sure where else to look:

The 567 doesn't actually work through a line of 37 squares. Forcing the thermo to start with a 1 or 2 (this reason can be left for the reader, but has to do with symmetry and whisper) which fixes the colors for the rest of the puzzle. If you need more info on the state I was at, I can pm you the image.
Thx.. I may not even have C5 correct. I will give it another go in a few days...
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01-16-2022 , 02:40 PM
I'll look at it when I can. Maybe I was using omniscience instead of logic when I checked it.
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01-16-2022 , 02:47 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Eric
I'll look at it when I can. Maybe I was using omniscience instead of logic when I checked it.
Do you have Rangsk's plugin for f-puzzles? You can check the steps it does if it ever needs to find deep logic to break in. It also has german whiskers and renban programmed into it (which f-puzzles doesn't have atm)
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01-17-2022 , 01:03 PM
I gave it another shot. I am assuming that solving C5 is the start point and that the other features help with one or two breaking points to solve the Puzzle

Right now I have 2 viable solutions for C5. And there are numerous ways the related cells (zone 2 for example and the 4 other digits in the whisper cross) could get assigned numbers.

Right now I am not seeing enough help in the two whisper circles and the 456xxx Renban to narrow things down. Basically nothing short of trying to run random options to points of failure.

I can see how these other features could help but can’t see how they do. I will go at it again if Eric signals there is a logical path and enough info to solve with running bifurcation deep as a solving strategy.
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01-17-2022 , 01:12 PM
Here are at least two of the workable starting points for column 5. I think.
Top to bottom
Spoiler:
3 4 7. 8/9 2 8/9 1 6. 5

2 5 7. 8/9 3 8/9 1 6. 4.


My guess is one can be disproved in short order by minds sharper than mine. Lol.
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01-17-2022 , 01:23 PM
I will be able to go over it tomorrow.
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01-17-2022 , 02:31 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by ArcticKnight
Here are at least two of the workable starting points for column 5. I think.
Top to bottom
Spoiler:
3 4 7. 8/9 2 8/9 1 6. 5

2 5 7. 8/9 3 8/9 1 6. 4.


My guess is one can be disproved in short order by minds sharper than mine. Lol.
What I did:

Spoiler:
If you put 34 on the 7 arrow you run into a double 56 pair with r1c4 r1c6 and r5c4 r5c6 which forms a deadly pattern. Sadly this is using uniqueness rather than the usual logic you see in ctc but got me through that part.


Note:
Spoiler:
I could not find an easier way to prove that spoiler. But I also didn't exhaustively try to run into a contradiction with the incorrect path.
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01-17-2022 , 04:58 PM
Onuzq.

I can relate to those two numbers being a problem. No matter what I tried I got into a dead end at the renban with the higher of those two digits preventing completion. Going back the other way didn’t help. But I probably missed a key clue.
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01-18-2022 , 03:37 PM
I don't know how I managed to do it before, but I can't find a logical solve, yet. Probably an earlier incarnation had set something in my brain. I'm working on a fix.
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01-18-2022 , 06:28 PM
After a long time playing around with this, I think I found a (mostly – in the eye of the beholder) logical solve. Maybe not what I thought I had done, but there are many elements which match what I did before posting the damn thing. A lot of it revolves around the renban line and its interaction with the rows and boxes it occupies. While I took a long time working this out, I think it is more easily solvable by someone quicker than I am with this stuff.

Spoiler:

The given grid should be derivable from the start.




At this point it should be noted that both of r6c23 cannot be big, otherwise there are too many big numbers in the row.

If both of them are small, then r6c78 are 56. In box 7 the 6 is confined to row 8, removing it from r8c7. The blue or green squares in box 9 contribute two of 789, as does the thermometer – too many big numbers. So r6c23 are a big and a little number.

The renban within box 7 must contain both a 4 and a 5. The small number from r6c23 means the renban cannot have a 9. Also, there must be at least one big number in r7c23, and at least one small number in r8c23. There are at least two big numbers on the renban, so it cannot have 1. It has 34567 and either 2 or 8.





In box 8, one of the 239 cells must be a 9, which provides some eliminations.

R9c7 cannot be 4 (either green is big, or it has a 78 on one side). Similarly 3 is removed from r8c46.





General whispers, thermo, and sudoku can be done for a bit.

Now it borders on bifurcation, but I think Simon would accept this:

If r8c4 were a 9, then the blue squares are big. This means the big number in r6c23 is a 6, so 6 is not on the renban inside box 7, putting it in the corner. This leaves 2457 on the renban in box 7, leaving r9c2 as the only spot for the 1. 1 is then forced into r5c1 (unique in box) and into r5c7 (23 pair and 123). So r8c4 is a 2.





After this, it solves pretty easily, I think. Let me know how much over the bi-line you think I have gone here.

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01-19-2022 , 02:38 PM
Hard to say. I would guess I don't get there myself. Not easy being objective because it is hard "unknow" what I knew....lol

I guess if others solve it you will know it is ok.
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01-19-2022 , 02:51 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by ArcticKnight
Hard to say. I would guess I don't get there myself. Not easy being objective because it is hard "unknow" what I knew....lol

I guess if others solve it you will know it is ok.
Thanks. Not getting much attention on discord, though.
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01-20-2022 , 05:14 AM
How dedicated are you to the left circle logic?

I found a simple trick to make it much easier, although I don't know reference to the idea of the puzzle

Last edited by Onuzq; 01-20-2022 at 05:27 AM.
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01-20-2022 , 09:16 PM
Interesting idea. Kind of looks like a snake, maybe even more so if we use the bottom two cells on the right side. If it makes it even easier than your suggestion, the puzzle could be presented with three levels of difficulty, based on how long the snake is.
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01-21-2022 , 08:43 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Eric
Interesting idea. Kind of looks like a snake, maybe even more so if we use the bottom two cells on the right side. If it makes it even easier than your suggestion, the puzzle could be presented with three levels of difficulty, based on how long the snake is.
True, I was just using minimal addition in the steps that doesn't change the puzzle at an extreme
Spoiler:
extending it twice could really skip a lot of steps to figure out parity as it will automatically eliminate 6 and 7 from R6C7 which isn't my goal. Only after your can find that at most 2 big can go on the thermo can you find the bulb has be less than 5. Only when you figure out it can't be 6 or 5 should you break both the rings with parity is my goal.
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01-23-2022 , 09:48 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Eric
I was looking around the CtC discord server. #puzzle-discussion, I think. There was a post today by Kittiaara which linked to some extensions, created by Pallando, for f-puzzles. One of them implements the anti-palindrome line as I use it. Probably, then, it was already a known concept, but little utilized.
The F-Puzzles userscripts are created by Kittiaara, and are linked to from the wiki on her github page.

Some of those implement sudoku constraints I came up with (such as weak palindrome lines), however the credit for devising anti-palindrome lines goes back at least as far as a post by EPH on 20/09/2021:

Quote:
Anti-palindrome line (green): cells equidistant from the middle must have values which sum to 10. Equivalently, cells equidistant from opposite ends must sum to 10. eg 421986.
Mornington Crescent (4712 in the CTC discord archive) wasn't until December.
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01-24-2022 , 01:59 AM


Juggle's Sudoku 2
https://f-puzzles.com/?id=yaqupybv

Normal Sudoku rules apply

On each line, the circle is the average of the cells along the line. Also, when the cells read in order c(1)c(2)...c(n), then c(i) + i=c(j) + j mod n, if and only if i = j mod n must be true. c(1) is represented by the circled digit and i increases as you go further down the line. (In this way c(1)+1, c(2)+2, ... c(n)+n must all be unique mod n)

For example: 342 is a valid sequence
For example: 5744 is a valid sequence
For example: 435 is not a valid sequence (all three new values equal 2)
For example: 334 is not a valid sequence (they do not average to an integer)

I'm not that pleased with it, but I also only spent 1-2 hrs working on it. I'm wondering if I could try something like adding positive/negative diagonal constraints or other possible ideas. LMK what you think.
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01-24-2022 , 10:02 PM
I will try your puzzle in the morning, Onuzq, since I don't work Tuesdays.

In the meantime, I have another puzzle that I have been working on while at work.
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01-24-2022 , 10:04 PM
Don’t set it too hot

Standard sudoku rules apply.
Standard thermometer and killer cage rules apply.
A marked diagonal may not contain repeated digits.

Please let me know what you thought about difficulty. After the break in, it is very smooth sailing, so is the start of the puzzle challenging enough? In either case, was it fun?

https://f-puzzles.com/?id=y8sunpf5

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01-25-2022 , 12:53 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Onuzq


Juggle's Sudoku 2
https://f-puzzles.com/?id=yaqupybv

Normal Sudoku rules apply

On each line, the circle is the average of the cells along the line. Also, when the cells read in order c(1)c(2)...c(n), then c(i) + i=c(j) + j mod n, if and only if i = j mod n must be true. c(1) is represented by the circled digit and i increases as you go further down the line. (In this way c(1)+1, c(2)+2, ... c(n)+n must all be unique mod n)

For example: 342 is a valid sequence
For example: 5744 is a valid sequence
For example: 435 is not a valid sequence (all three new values equal 2)
For example: 334 is not a valid sequence (they do not average to an integer)

I'm not that pleased with it, but I also only spent 1-2 hrs working on it. I'm wondering if I could try something like adding positive/negative diagonal constraints or other possible ideas. LMK what you think.
Really nice puzzle. A clear break in that gets you started smoothly. Then you piece things together until a new revelation shows the next part of the path.

Not hard, but you need to pay attention to details; it was fun.
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01-25-2022 , 01:12 PM
Good, that was what I was going for. Wanted smooth movement.

On your recent one:

Spoiler:
using set but not getting the squeeze on the 4 2x2s yet
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01-25-2022 , 01:14 PM
I wish f puzzles worked on mobile
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01-25-2022 , 01:23 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Onuzq
I wish f puzzles worked on mobile
No kidding!
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01-25-2022 , 01:26 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Onuzq
Good, that was what I was going for. Wanted smooth movement.

On your recent one:

Spoiler:
using set but not getting the squeeze on the 4 2x2s yet
Yeah, that is the crux for this one. After that, there are a lot of singles.
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01-25-2022 , 02:02 PM
Onuzq, I really want t try yours. Is there a dumb down way to explain the formula

Quote:
Also, when the cells read in order c(1)c(2)...c(n), then c(i) + i=c(j) + j mod n, if and only if i = j mod n must be true. c(1) is represented by the circled digit and i increases as you go further down the line. (In this way c(1)+1, c(2)+2, ... c(n)+n must all be unique mod n)
I don't really get the equation part so I am not sure how the 435 values all end up to 2. In part I think because I have no context for an example. perhaps you could give me a non existent line like a circled 6 along three cells and then show how the formula would work for that..

Quote:
For example: 342 is a valid sequence
For example: 5744 is a valid sequence
For example: 435 is not a valid sequence (all three new values equal 2)
For example: 334 is not a valid sequence (they do not average to an integer)
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