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11-30-2016 , 02:53 AM
You're correct for #4 and #5 guys well done
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11-30-2016 , 02:57 AM
#6 A worm is on a 2cm elastic string at one end and is travelling to the other end at a rate of 1cm per second. Unfortunately at the end of each second someone is stretching the string and it is extending by 1cm each time. Will the worm get to the end of the string ever? You must show your work.
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11-30-2016 , 08:38 AM
Spoiler:
Is the string being stretched/extended only in the direction of the worm?

If so, no. The worm will never get there.

If it's being stretched on both sides, then the worm will travel 1 cm/s and be "set back" only 0.5 cm/s. So it'll get there. It's too early to do the math right now to say how quickly.
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11-30-2016 , 08:58 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by eyebooger
Spoiler:
Is the string being stretched/extended only in the direction of the worm?

If so, no. The worm will never get there.

If it's being stretched on both sides, then the worm will travel 1 cm/s and be "set back" only 0.5 cm/s. So it'll get there. It's too early to do the math right now to say how quickly.
Spoiler:

It's almost certainly the latter example.
But I suspect it's more that
He walks 1cm, the string is stretched uniformly so all distances are now 50% farther away (1cm onto 2cm) so he has to walk 50% farther leaving him 1.5cm away.
In the 2nd second, he walks another 1cm putting him .5 cm away and we'll add 1cm into 3cm so it'll be 33% farther away or .50*1.333 or .6666cm. So it'll take him 2.666 seconds.


In your case it would take a 3 full seconds.
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11-30-2016 , 09:01 AM
Worm

Spoiler:
worm is in middle of string at 1cm. String extends to 3cm total, since worm was in middle it is now at 1.5cm. Moves 1 cm to 2.5cm. String extends to 4cm. Since worm was at 2.5/3 during extension, majority of the extension will happen behind him and he'll make it to the end on his next movement
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11-30-2016 , 09:42 AM
I disagree on either the question or the answer for #5 fwiw. Question doesn't say anything about whether the distribution of hats is random.
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11-30-2016 , 09:51 AM
It is random. I've done this one before.
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11-30-2016 , 09:59 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Lattimer
It is random. I've done this one before.
So you're saying you disagree with the question?
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11-30-2016 , 10:01 AM
Nope, I don't. I always infer randomness unless stated otherwise.
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11-30-2016 , 10:33 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Lattimer
Nope, I don't. I always infer randomness unless stated otherwise.
Seems like logical spew to me, but I don't do this sort of thing much. The question of inference & the likelihood of randomness based on the other information available can get interesting, but obviously not what the puzzle maker is looking for.
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11-30-2016 , 11:39 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by JMurder3
Seems like logical spew to me, but I don't do this sort of thing much. The question of inference & the likelihood of randomness based on the other information available can get interesting, but obviously not what the puzzle maker is looking for.
so what you're saying is the jailers would know the 3 prisoners are all pure logicians and would guess the opposite color if they saw the other two prisoners were wearing the same colored hat, therefore they would give all 3 prisoners the same colored hat and all 3 would simultaneously guess incorrectly.
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11-30-2016 , 11:44 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by housenuts
so what you're saying is the jailers would know the 3 prisoners are all pure logicians and would guess the opposite color if they saw the other two prisoners were wearing the same colored hat, therefore they would give all 3 prisoners the same colored hat and all 3 would simultaneously guess incorrectly.
I see 3 options:

1) Randomized.
2) Human choice with no agenda.
3) Intelligent choice to try to keep as many people in jail as possible to ensure job security, which would lead to a Nash issue.

But yes, that would be the clear counter by the jailers if that was their goal & the prisoners thought it was random, even if they weren't logicians because the natural 1st thought is yours is the opposite even without knowing why.
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11-30-2016 , 12:21 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by housenuts
There's another thread in here somewhere with a bunch of similar puzzles
http://forumserver.twoplustwo.com/59...hlight=puzzles
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11-30-2016 , 12:58 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by JMurder3
I see 3 options:

1) Randomized.
2) Human choice with no agenda.
3) Intelligent choice to try to keep as many people in jail as possible to ensure job security, which would lead to a Nash issue.

But yes, that would be the clear counter by the jailers if that was their goal & the prisoners thought it was random, even if they weren't logicians because the natural 1st thought is yours is the opposite even without knowing why.
Heh, #3 would actually be the opposite. If they guess wrong they die (no need for jail), but correct and they are set free, with possibility to return. Unless the jailer is Percy, in which case fry fry fry.
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11-30-2016 , 01:14 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Lattimer
Heh, #3 would actually be the opposite. If they guess wrong they die (no need for jail), but correct and they are set free, with possibility to return. Unless the jailer is Percy, in which case fry fry fry.
Oops, forgot the exact question haha. Their motivation is sort of irrelevant to the answer, though.
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11-30-2016 , 01:40 PM
A couple of points:

-The hats distribution is random
-Well done with the worm puzzle. Now let me change it slightly:

The string is now 1m long. The worm still travels at 1cm per second and the string still gets extended by 1cm every second. Will the worm make it to the end now? Does the length of the string matter? Remember to show your work...
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11-30-2016 , 01:56 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by xander biscuits
A couple of points:

-The hats distribution is random
-Well done with the worm puzzle. Now let me change it slightly:

The string is now 1m long. The worm still travels at 1cm per second and the string still gets extended by 1cm every second. Will the worm make it to the end now? Does the length of the string matter? Remember to show your work...
Spoiler:
This part I'm 100% sure about:
As long as there is ever any moment that the worm is walking before the string is being stretched then he will always reach the end eventually as some % of the distance he walked will then be part of the stretched string, and he will not have to walk that and then distance traveled will be > additional distance stretched.

Part I'm only 95% sure about:
He will never make it if the string is being stretched from the moment that he starts walking and it finishes being stretched before the end of the second. The rate that the string is being stretched in front of him will be > than his walking speed so he will not catch up.

Part I'm really not sure about:
The edge case where this string is being stretched over the exact interval that he is walking. I.e. it is being continuously stretched over the 1 second time frame. I think in this case he would stay 100cm from the end at all times.
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11-30-2016 , 02:01 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by iraisetoomuch
Spoiler:
This part I'm 100% sure about:
As long as there is ever any moment that the worm is walking before the string is being stretched then he will always reach the end eventually as some % of the distance he walked will then be part of the stretched string, and he will not have to walk that and then distance traveled will be > additional distance stretched.

Part I'm only 95% sure about:
He will never make it if the string is being stretched from the moment that he starts walking and it finishes being stretched before the end of the second. The rate that the string is being stretched in front of him will be > than his walking speed so he will not catch up.

Part I'm really not sure about:
The edge case where this string is being stretched over the exact interval that he is walking. I.e. it is being continuously stretched over the 1 second time frame. I think in this case he would stay 100cm from the end at all times.
Nevermind. Ignore that one.

Spoiler:
He always makes it no matter when the string is being stretched because it only ever gains 1cm per second.
And any some time t he will always be not on the starting point so some potion of the stretch will always be behind him. So his 1cm / sec will always be >> % of sting in front of him * 1cm.

He always makes it for any value of string length.
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11-30-2016 , 02:13 PM
if the string is too long the worm will die before making it.
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11-30-2016 , 02:15 PM
Spoiler:


t = seconds
d[t] = distance remaining at time t

d[0] = 100
d[1] = (100-1)+(1-1/100) = 99.99

Yes he will eventually reach the end.

More generically,

m = worm movement per t
s = length of stretch per t

d[0] = initial length of string
d[t] = d[t-1] - m + (s - (d[t-1]-m)/(d[0]+s*t))
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11-30-2016 , 02:16 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by xander biscuits
A couple of points:

-The hats distribution is random
-Well done with the worm puzzle. Now let me change it slightly:

The string is now 1m long. The worm still travels at 1cm per second and the string still gets extended by 1cm every second. Will the worm make it to the end now? Does the length of the string matter? Remember to show your work...
Can someone solve the Nash Equilibria of the hat problem if it wasn't random, though, & instead was a competitive game?

I would try, buuuuut...

TIA
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11-30-2016 , 02:52 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by JMurder3
Can someone solve the Nash Equilibria of the hat problem if it wasn't random, though, & instead was a competitive game?

I would try, buuuuut...

TIA
If you knew that the prisoners knew the optimal strategy then you would just give them all the same colour hats. There is no long run for this to balance out since when they guess wrong once you kill them.
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11-30-2016 , 02:54 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Lattimer
Spoiler:


t = seconds
d[t] = distance remaining at time t

d[0] = 100
d[1] = (100-1)+(1-1/100) = 99.99

Yes he will eventually reach the end.

More generically,

m = worm movement per t
s = length of stretch per t

d[0] = initial length of string
d[t] = d[t-1] - m + (s - (d[t-1]-m)/(d[0]+s*t))
Whether the worm can reach the end or not can be determined by:

Spoiler:

m > (s^2+(s+1)*d[0])/(s+d[0]+1)

As you can see, the initial length of the string matters.
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11-30-2016 , 02:55 PM
Worm puzzle extension:

The elastic string is 1m long and is getting extended by 1m every second. The worm still only moves 1cm per second. Will the worm ever reach the end of the string?
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11-30-2016 , 03:05 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by xander biscuits
If you knew that the prisoners knew the optimal strategy then you would just give them all the same colour hats. There is no long run for this to balance out since when they guess wrong once you kill them.
Sorry I didn't make it clear...the prisoners in this scenario know that the guards are plotting in their guard room about what hats to put on who at the same time they are having their meeting regarding what the best strategy for securing their freedom is. As the prisoners know the hats are not random, they will need to come up with a more nuanced strategy, as will the prison guards.
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