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11-29-2016 , 07:37 AM
So imo, combining these you have

Travel to 1
Q^3/(Q^3+P^7)
multiplied by
P^10/(Q+P^10)

Add to this
Travel to 11
P^7/(Q^3+P^7)
multiplied by
Q^10/(P+Q^10)
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11-29-2016 , 07:40 AM
So

(Q^3)*(P^10)/((Q^3+P^7)*(Q+P^10)) + (P^7)*(Q^10)/((Q^3+P^7)*(P+Q^10))
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11-29-2016 , 07:40 AM
Some math genius might want to see if that can be simplified
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11-29-2016 , 07:43 AM
I agree with that solution. And I believe that the reason you can ignore the other scenarios (not going direct to an endpoint) is because they end up canceling out with themselves when finding the other endpoint.
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11-29-2016 , 08:56 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Gabethebabe
Clock problem.

Heads = move clockwise = probability = P
Coins = counterclockwise = probability = Q
P+Q=1, ldo.

First critical point is to reach 1 or 11 or otherwise you cannot reach 12 ever. You will reach 1 or 11 at some point in time, for sure. When you do, you must calculate the probability of the coin travelling back from 1 to 11 (11 to 1) before hitting 12.

To go from 4 to 1 without ever going back is 3x anticlockwise or Q^3.
To go from 4 to 11 without ever going back is 7x clockwise or P^7.

So I think, firstly, to reach 1 before reaching 11 is:
Q^3/(Q^3+P^7).

To reach 11 before 1 = P^7/(Q^3+P^7)
A funny mistake btw
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11-29-2016 , 09:14 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Gabethebabe
A funny mistake btw
Also heads/coins
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11-29-2016 , 09:20 AM
lol

I had coins in my brain.

3) You have 13 coins, one is fake and has a slightly different weight. You have a traditional balance and must pick out the fake coin with three weighings.
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11-29-2016 , 09:26 AM
I know a similar one, but it's with 12 coins and you must also determine whether the coin is heavier or lighter.

You sure that it's 13 in this puzzle?
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11-29-2016 , 09:27 AM
I know this one with 12 coins. I'll see if 13 is much different when I get a chance.
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11-29-2016 , 09:38 AM
I know the one with 12 and found out you can do it with 13 as well. It will not be much extra work.
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11-29-2016 , 09:46 AM
The 13 coins might require an extra step, but not needing to determine heavier or lighter removes one, so it's a wash.
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11-29-2016 , 10:02 AM
There's another thread in here somewhere with a bunch of similar puzzles
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11-29-2016 , 05:58 PM
Optimal Solution for the gold coin problem:

Spoiler:
Start off by randomly pairing all coins and feeding them through the machine. All pairs that don't match we can discard. The reason we can discard them is because we are at most discarding half gold and we retain the property of >50% being gold and we reduce the problem.

You will now be left with a bunch of matching pairs. Let's call them A1, A2, B1, B2, C1, C2,...Z1, Z2...

Feed A1 and B1 through the machine. If they don't match then discard A1, A2, B1 & B2 (since we are at most discarding 2 gold and we are retaining the property of >50% gold).

If A1 and B1 match then A1, A2, B1, B2 are all the same and we move onto C1 and D1 to do the same thing. At the end of this process the only coins we have left are in groups of 4 and only 2 of them have been tested in round 2 so far.

We then pair A2 and C2. If they don't match then we discard A1, A2, B1, B2, C1, C2, D1 and D2. If they do match then we now have a group of 8 and we proceed to pairing E2 and G2 with the same actions as above. After this then we only have groups of 8 matching coins left and only 6 of the 8 having been tested in round 2 so far.

You proceed in a similar manner until the matching group is at least half of the remaining coins and at this point you know they are all gold.

You ignore any remainders to begin with and only begin to test them if the remainders exceed the matching group. This won't happen very often at all and when it does it will be obvious what to do to complete the task after just 2 rounds and 24 hours.
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11-29-2016 , 07:06 PM
MORE PUZZLES

4). You're in a group of 12 prisoners and you're given a challenge by the warden which will either set you all free or get you all the electric chair. You are brought to a room randomly and are faced with 2 switches and you must toggle one of them. You can be brought to the room multiple times in a row or not for a very long time. Who is taken to the room is completely random each time and includes repeats. When someone declares that they know that everybody has been brought to the room at least once then the challenge is over. If the person who declares this is correct then everybody is set free. If they are wrong then everybody is executed. You can plan a strategy before hand but once the challenge starts there is no more communication by any of the prisoners. What strategy should the prisoners plan to guarantee success?

5). You are part of a group of 3 prisoners. A hat is put on each prisoner's head and it is either red or blue. You cannot see your own hat and you can see the hats of the other prisoners. You cannot communicate what you can see to the other prisoners. You all have the opportunity to guess what colour your own hat is. You do not have to guess. If you are wrong then you are all executed. If nobody guesses then you are all executed. Anybody who wants to guess must not announce this fact before hand and must guess simultaneously when a whistle is blown. If everybody who guesses is correct then you are all set free. You can plan a strategy before hand. What is the best strategy to give yourself the best chance of being set free?
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11-29-2016 , 07:08 PM
Also the podcast that had the solution to the clock puzzle had a broken link and so I don't have the solution to that one.

Sorry bout that...
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11-29-2016 , 07:39 PM
For number 5, do we know anything about the distribution of possible hats? Or it is just random? Or do we have no clue whatsoever?
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11-29-2016 , 07:44 PM
5.
Spoiler:
I think the answer is 75%.
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11-29-2016 , 08:14 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by xander biscuits
MORE PUZZLES

4). You're in a group of 12 prisoners and you're given a challenge by the warden which will either set you all free or get you all the electric chair. You are brought to a room randomly and are faced with 2 switches and you must toggle one of them. You can be brought to the room multiple times in a row or not for a very long time. Who is taken to the room is completely random each time and includes repeats. When someone declares that they know that everybody has been brought to the room at least once then the challenge is over. If the person who declares this is correct then everybody is set free. If they are wrong then everybody is executed. You can plan a strategy before hand but once the challenge starts there is no more communication by any of the prisoners. What strategy should the prisoners plan to guarantee success?
I am assuming that each prisoner is required to toggle exactly one switch, and that toggling a switch means leaving it in the state opposite to which it is found. I also assume that the prisoners do not know the initial state of the switches.


Spoiler:
The first time each prisoner is taken into the room they leave a sock or something. Twelve socks means everybody has been in the room. Better yet, leave a (less detectable) hair under the switches. Or leave a thumbnail impression in the wall.
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11-29-2016 , 08:49 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by chuckleslovakian
5.
Spoiler:
I think the answer is 75%.
Correct.

Spoiler:
The strategy is - if you see that the other 2 hats are the same color, declare that you have the opposite color, otherwise remain silent.

The possibilities are:

RRR
RRB
RBR
RBB
BRR
BRB
BBR
BBB

75% are 2 of one color and 1 of another.
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11-29-2016 , 08:54 PM
I assume for 4 that this goes on endlessly until someone declares?
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11-29-2016 , 09:14 PM
For 4, I think the only way has to involve appointing a leader and for him to be able to tell whether everyone has visited the room or not.
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11-29-2016 , 09:18 PM
4.

Spoiler:
Prisoners 1-11: The first time they enter when SW1 is down, flip it up, otherwise toggle SW2.
Prisoner 12: If SW1 is up, flip it down, otherwise toggle SW2. When you flip SW1 down 11 times, you know everyone has been in.


edit: This assumes SW1 starts in down position, or more generally, that 1 of the switches' initial states is known.

Last edited by Lattimer; 11-29-2016 at 09:31 PM.
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11-29-2016 , 09:31 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Lattimer
edit: This assumes both switches start in down position.
If we don't know this, I think we'd have to change your "The first time" to "The first two times". There would be a ****load of redundancy, but I think that would 100% guarantee safety.

There may be a better (more efficient) way, but I think this works.
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11-29-2016 , 09:35 PM
You're right, they can be unknown initially.

Spoiler:
just 1-11 have to do it twice, and 12 counts to 22. That nullifies the possible false positive of 1st count.
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11-30-2016 , 01:33 AM
I think 5 is a variation of the red dot/ green dot trick. In that scenerio you can actually be certain of the colour of dot you have on your forehead simply based on the fact that the other two people can't figure it out.

But, in that trick some communication is required. for example , raising your hand if you can see at least one red dot on someone's forehead. Not sure how the hat trick can be solved without communication of some sort
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