I'd say there's a distinction to be made between theism and moral or meta-ethical theorizing. Speaking about morals is not theologizing in the usual sense of the word, and there are ways of conceptualizing morality which bear little resemblance to concepts of divinity.

On the other hand, the perspective of many western atheists is closely related in some ways to the monotheistic worldview, at least in the sense that atheism is not typically merely an assertion about the existences of certain classes of entities, but an ontological and epistemological view of reality that is posed over against the traditional monotheistic views.

I don't know what distinction you're making between moral and ethical

can you clarify the difference for me?

"An innate morality"? Oh dear.

isn't faith irrational by definition?

it is by what I mean by the word

I don't see any problem is having faith in someone or something to the degree it's justified

it's only unjustified faith that causes problems imo

oh man, there is a thread for this.

I was just thinking it's funny Im gonna be part of the 1st generation of grandparents that listen to Slayer.

I think morality is tied to the conscience

faith: belief (in something) regardless a lack of evidence for it.

Yeah, I'm fine with assuming that faith is irrational.

(That doesn't even mean that belief in god is wrong, or irrational — but having faith in the existence of god is.)

I think when we do something wrong we know it not because it was taught to us

you should've just said religion isn't necessary for morality

Faith is not by definition irrational. I think it would be more correct to say it is non-rational. That is, to have faith is not necessarily to believe something that is contradicted by reason, but it is to believe something that is not justified by reason. That is, if faith "believes" A, it does not follow that reason leads directly to Not-A, only that A is not supported by reason.

edit: For clarity, this allows for faith to be irrational. Faith may be irrational, but it is not necessarily so.

I wasn't saying it was

amen to that

Yes

This

right, because we have empathy hard-wired into our brains like other social animals

think outside the box tho. there are ways where having faith, even as you define it, can be rational, depending on what your ultimate goal is.

Hard wired how

moral is a belief system, ethical is a principled system

for all other questions see wn's posts, I just make broad generalizations, he's the one with actual brains

I didn't say you were

are you implying that you think I was implying that you were?

read about mirror neurons

when we see others in pain, it sort of hurts us

Isn't there a containment thread for this?

I'll move all the posts over there as soon as I get my undertitle back

Meantime...

During the last few days the local traffic cops have started a sting/ticket operation at a local congested intersection. The problem is that I don't know why or what the drivers were doing wrong. I travel through this intersection daily.

My current guess is that they are busting people for stopping on areas marked "Keep clear" on the road surface. It could be something simple as missing tags (But I think too many cars are getting pulled over for this to be true)

I'm nervous.

guess ive never introduced myself on these boards, but im Jarrod, been nice playing with you all. looking forward to getting steamrolled on some more

pog has a new favorite jarrod

BLACKFISH!