POG Politics Thread Version 3 - Page 25 - Puzzles and Other Games Forum

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POG Politics Thread Version 3

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09-19-2020 , 12:07 PM

#601

filthyvermin

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i'd like to see one taken by the whole population and compared to the results of 1940 germany.

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09-19-2020 , 12:09 PM

#602

pwnsall

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I hard sell the second and third paragraphs of herbies I think. If you come from a place that all people are fundamentally the same don't think you can really get there. Also think middle aged people in the 80s and 90s felt the same about their "current" political state, and probably much earlier. I'd say it's more likely a byproduct of getting older.

I soft buy paragraph 4, though.

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09-19-2020 , 12:13 PM

#603

Uglydelicious

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High openness to experience (79/100) High agreeableness (67/100) Moderate conscientiousness (46/100) Moderate extroversion (64/100)

Seems like I’m just a great person hmmm

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09-19-2020 , 12:13 PM

#604

HerbieGRD

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Quote:

Originally Posted by pwnsall

So you hard sell the idea that reality has moved in that direction, and you think it is entirely my perception that has changed?

I believe a good chunk of it is my perception, I just don’t think all of it is my perception

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09-19-2020 , 12:15 PM

#605

pwnsall

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I believe it is more perception than reality, yes.

Similar to "kids these days", rhetoric, if that is at all helpful. But you seem to agree and or understand the concept already.

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09-19-2020 , 12:16 PM

#606

HerbieGRD

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I am also not quite sure how you can soft buy paragraph 4 while hard selling 2 and 3 since 2 and 3 are like the necessary and direct result of 4 imo

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09-19-2020 , 12:16 PM

#607

pwnsall

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Quote:

Originally Posted by Uglydelicious

High openness to experience (79/100) High agreeableness (67/100) Moderate conscientiousness (46/100) Moderate extroversion (64/100)

Seems like I’m just a great person hmmm

You're missing one! I found the subsets more interesting if you scroll down further.

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09-19-2020 , 12:18 PM

#608

Uglydelicious

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Quote:

Originally Posted by pwnsall

You're missing one! I found the subsets more interesting if you scroll down further.

Oh darn I closed the tab

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09-19-2020 , 12:18 PM

#609

HerbieGRD

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Quote:

Originally Posted by pwnsall

I believe it is more perception than reality, yes.

Similar to "kids these days", rhetoric, if that is at all helpful. But you seem to agree and or understand the concept already.

I do understand the concept, and I know that even in the most generous reading for me my perception has changed a lot more than the reality, and even now I see my sudden perception change as more of a realization of long term trends than a sudden shift in reality.

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09-19-2020 , 12:18 PM

#610

Tokyo!!

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Originally Posted by Booker Wolfbox

There are no heroes except for Stalin so at least that’s not a major problem and we can focus our efforts on shitting on the legacies of anyone someone else might wrongly think is a hero.

Filthy, I know you want to add Ralph Nader to that list but you’re wrong.

this but not ironically. some bad RBG takes ITT

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09-19-2020 , 12:18 PM

#611

pwnsall

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Quote:

Originally Posted by HerbieGRD

I am also not quite sure how you can soft buy paragraph 4 while hard selling 2 and 3 since 2 and 3 are like the necessary and direct result of 4 imo

2 and 3 imply nefariousness imo. Maybe this comes back to the trust question but generally I believe kel believes he is not doing the things he says he's not doing,and similar for others.

If people are gaslighting its not because they mean to gaslight. Mostly.

This is already assuming I understood what you meant!

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09-19-2020 , 12:19 PM

#612

HerbieGRD

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Originally Posted by Uglydelicious

Oh darn I closed the tab

If you go back it remembers you taking the test - your results should still be there. I think I took it a year and a half ago and my results were still there when I went back just now

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09-19-2020 , 12:19 PM

#613

pwnsall

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Quote:

Originally Posted by Uglydelicious

Oh darn I closed the tab

It saves the results in my comp unless I delete cookies or some junk.

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09-19-2020 , 12:22 PM

#614

HerbieGRD

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Originally Posted by pwnsall

2 and 3 imply nefariousness imo. Maybe this comes back to the trust question but generally I believe kel believes he is not doing the things he says he's not doing,and similar for others.

Is people are gaslighting its not because they mean to gaslight. Mostly.

I think there is a combination of ignorance and nefariousness. And I’ve seen too many instances of “accidentally saying the quiet part out loud” followed by hollow pro-forma apologies that don’t actually lead to changing any positions to believe that nefariousness isn’t a part of it

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09-19-2020 , 12:24 PM

#615

Tokyo!!

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Quote:

Originally Posted by HerbieGRD

This is hard to succinctly put into words, and any attempt I make will lose some meaningful and necessary context, but I will give it a shot

I think up until about 5 years ago I was under the impression that there were more or less a shared set of beliefs and values that most Americans had and were attempting to advance. There were individuals who fell outside of that sure, and there were plenty of cases where our leaders did not actually work towards those ends, but they all at least pretended to share them as well. The main differences between Democrats and Republicans seemed to come primarily in 3 areas - how those values applied to individual circumstances and cases, which of those values were most important generally and specifically, and which tactical solutions were more likely to achieve the ends that we all generally agreed upon. While this description is missing A TON of needed caveats and context, it was nonetheless the framework on which I believed, writ large, our country generally adhered to. Implicit in this was the belief that those people who I disagreed with on issues or more broadly were, by and large, arguing things in more or less good faith.

Over the past 5 years specifically (although this overstated the suddenness of the shift) I have come to believe/realize that this is definitely not true now and I am far from convinced that it was true before, although I think reality has shifted along with my perceptions to some extent. I think much of the tactical discussion is a front and a distraction, and I think many (perhaps most) of the arguments deployed by those I “disagree” with are borne of either deep ignorance or genuine deceit and deception and attempts to mask the fact that their true values, aims, and goals are nothing remotely like mine, and their attempts to cloak those aims in language that is generally palatable to people like me is more or less akin to a long con gaslighting and obfuscation of reality.

More broadly, I think more strongly than ever that division, strife, and turning both governance and our society into a zero sum game where you either “win” or you “lose” and you have to “pick a team” based not on your opinions about issues or tactics but based on some deep seated feelings and emotions about which “team” you want to identify with and then adjust your views and beliefs to fit your “team” rather than Vice versa is by far the dominant mode of making political decisions by individuals at this point

So when Birdman asks you “are they psychos?” And “wouldn’t you want democrats to do the same if the roles were reversed” and you answer yes and yes, to me that’s a perfectly consistent and not at all hypocritical answer despite the fact that on the surface it seems contradictory, but only if you consider things to be roughly balanced and of equal moral weight on each side. When you believe the other side is the enemy instead of someone you disagree with that kind of surface hypocrisy is inevitable, because it’s no longer a tactical contest but rather a question of morality and decency.

Great post. A lot of this ties into the increasingly terrible influence of social media and its exploitation for nefarious purposes, especially on older folks that are now more susceptible to it (shrinking of the brain and all that). Makes it easier for folks to jump into echo chambers and dehumanize opposing views.

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09-19-2020 , 12:25 PM

#616

Uglydelicious

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I retook it and things shifted slightly but negative emotionality is the one I was missing I think, moderate 50/100.

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09-19-2020 , 12:27 PM

#617

pwnsall

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Smarter people just form more convoluted obfuscated rationalizations because they need to, and there aren't as many people smarter than them to point them out in addition to being more abstract so they go less noticed.

I obviously just made that up but it sounds compelling!

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09-19-2020 , 12:29 PM

#618

HerbieGRD

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My cross tabs were somewhat amusing to me

In negative emotionality basically all my points were in Anxiety

In extraversion basically all my points were in assertiveness

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09-19-2020 , 12:30 PM

#619

Uglydelicious

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Quote:

Originally Posted by HerbieGRD

My cross tabs were somewhat amusing to me

In negative emotionality basically all my points were in Anxiety

In extraversion basically all my points were in assertiveness

Hah same except swap depression for anxiety. Overall the quiz, like most quizzes, affirmed what I already believe about myself

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09-19-2020 , 12:36 PM

#620

HerbieGRD

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Quote:

Originally Posted by pwnsall

I think there is a lot of truth here actually, and as someone who knows a lot about and has a lot of experience with addiction/addicts there are a lot of parallels between how certain people think politically and how addicts think about their addiction when it comes to rationalization, cognitive dissonance, and convoluted logic salads that eventually dissolve into sophisticated lying and gaslighting to justify to themselves how they can do these terrible things without being terrible people

Which is part of why I think in most cases the concept of “terrible people” is seriously overused, but w/e

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09-19-2020 , 12:40 PM

#621

Uglydelicious

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Took it from the perspective of my dog, her results:

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09-19-2020 , 12:40 PM

#622

HerbieGRD

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Quote:

Originally Posted by Uglydelicious

Hah same except swap depression for anxiety. Overall the quiz, like most quizzes, affirmed what I already believe about myself

I’m rarely surprised by the results of personality tests, although occasionally I will get a cross tab result that raises an eyebrow, on reflection it’s usually something I consider to be suspect in the labeling and design of the test rather than something genuinely surprising about myself

Then again, I’ve taken a lot of personality tests over my lifetime, so I guess there’s not much room left for me to be surprised by the results lol

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09-19-2020 , 12:43 PM

#623

Birdman10687

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Join Date: Aug 2009 Posts: 39,990

pretty nuts that the guy who lost the popular vote by like 3 million votes might end up appointing a third of the supreme court

but we go off on how China isn’t democratic

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09-19-2020 , 12:52 PM

#624

HerbieGRD

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Quote:

Originally Posted by Birdman10687

pretty nuts that the guy who lost the popular vote by like 3 million votes might end up appointing a third of the supreme court

but we go off on how China isn’t democratic

I mean both things can be true

But you forgot that to mention that 1/3 of the Supreme Court was, in addition to being nominated by a guy who lost the popular vote, would also be confirmed by a “majority” of senators representing a minority of the population while being opposed by a “minority” of senators representing a majority of the population

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09-19-2020 , 12:55 PM

#625

HerbieGRD

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I’m actually not 100% sure if Gorsuch was confirmed by senators representing a minority of the population but I’m pretty sure he was

Kavanaugh was definitely minority confirmed in that way, and a new justice, if seated, would almost certainly be as well

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