POG Politics Thread Version 3 - Page 2 - Puzzles and Other Games Forum

look, this is a private forum and people can be banned for whatever reasons they want, but i'm going to step up for luckbox/kelhaus here

i don't really understand why you'd ban someone for posting stuff you disagree with, even if its blatantly false or pseudo-science or whatever

that thread looks like it's literally 100v1 (maybe 100v3 w/ dustin/vmf). ideas are meant to be discussed/argued. the best ideas will win out. you shouldn't be afraid of ideas no matter how dumb they are, because they don't hold weight when scrutinized

if several flat earthers start posting, will you ban them because its blatantly false? what about greek/roman theology? restricting speech isn't the answer to bad ideas. neither are ad-hominem attacks, which were flung at both luckbox/kelhaus pretty liberally

i'm never returning to this thread or reading more of the other politics thread, but i was curious when i saw it locked. you can **** all over me here for saying this, that's fine, i won't see it

This post doesn't address at all that people like Kelhus don't post in good faith and trolling is against the rules of the website.

That's a pretty big point to just whiff on.

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09-17-2020 , 06:16 PM

#27

Sun Tzu

laconic

Join Date: Jun 2008 Posts: 84,770

Quote:

Originally Posted by Luckbox Inc

I don't actually care. I'm still asking for Eyebooger to ban me. He might as well. My views are even crazier than Kelhus' focus on biology.

as far as I'm concerned, the views themselves are less important than the method of engaging

I've seen long threads where people patiently refute the absurd but politely posted nonsense of young earth creationists

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09-17-2020 , 06:18 PM

#28

Sun Tzu

laconic

Join Date: Jun 2008 Posts: 84,770

that could've been a response to dmk

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09-17-2020 , 06:18 PM

#29

Luckbox Inc

Carpal \'Tunnel

Join Date: Sep 2008 Posts: 61,059

Quote:

Originally Posted by Sun Tzu

Are you arguing that Kelhus isn't polite? Because if so then I disagree.

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09-17-2020 , 06:18 PM

#30

Uglydelicious

Carpal \'Tunnel

Join Date: Jul 2020 Posts: 7,062

My understanding is that the ban was not for the content of his arguments but for his bad faith approach to discourse.. concern trolling and insincerity etc. I think it’s fair to ban someone if all they are doing is trolling and acting in bad faith. My 2c

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09-17-2020 , 06:20 PM

#31

Sun Tzu

laconic

Join Date: Jun 2008 Posts: 84,770

Quote:

Originally Posted by Luckbox Inc

Are you arguing that Kelhus isn't polite? Because if so then I disagree.

I'm arguing that he engages in bad faith

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09-17-2020 , 06:20 PM

#32

Birdman10687

Not a Troll IRL

Join Date: Aug 2009 Posts: 39,990

first

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09-17-2020 , 06:22 PM

#33

eyebooger

Join Date: May 2010 Posts: 58,681

Just popping in to say that Kelhus was banned not only for concern trolling, but also for having been permabanned previously (including by POG mods) possibly as many as a dozen times or more.

If you have that kind of record, I don't feel the need to give him benefit of the doubt in cases like this.

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09-17-2020 , 06:23 PM

#34

Birdman10687

Not a Troll IRL

Join Date: Aug 2009 Posts: 39,990

I wasn’t the one who reported him, but just to add to what others have said, Kelhus made several posts that I believe are anti-trans and would not apologize or retract what he said when this was explained to him

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09-17-2020 , 06:23 PM

#35

Uglydelicious

Carpal \'Tunnel

Join Date: Jul 2020 Posts: 7,062

Last edited by Uglydelicious; 09-17-2020 at 06:23 PM. Reason: Oops

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09-17-2020 , 06:25 PM

#36

pwnsall

CFBBPC

Join Date: Jun 2006 Posts: 65,612

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09-17-2020 , 06:26 PM

#37

Birdman10687

Not a Troll IRL

Join Date: Aug 2009 Posts: 39,990

Kelhus struck me as the exact kind of person LordJvK was—started out polite and seemingly reasonable. It’s not uncommon for people to do that to invade spaces only to slowly push their reactionary views.

Bloobird can speak to how that ended up working out with LordJvK

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09-17-2020 , 06:27 PM

#38

pwnsall

CFBBPC

Join Date: Jun 2006 Posts: 65,612

Quote

09-17-2020 , 06:28 PM

#39

Crossnerd

quite smart as well

Join Date: Oct 2011 Posts: 39,546

Quote:

Originally Posted by Birdman10687

He also doesn’t seem at all sorry for his abusive posts toward eyebooger either. That was an absurd display of bad temper.

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09-17-2020 , 06:29 PM

#40

pwnsall

CFBBPC

Join Date: Jun 2006 Posts: 65,612

Quote

09-17-2020 , 06:30 PM

#41

Slighted

Carpal \'Tunnel

Join Date: Feb 2012 Posts: 16,758

why do i always miss the fun stuff..

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09-17-2020 , 06:31 PM

#42

pwnsall

CFBBPC

Join Date: Jun 2006 Posts: 65,612

Quote

09-17-2020 , 06:34 PM

#43

Birdman10687

Not a Troll IRL

Join Date: Aug 2009 Posts: 39,990

that dinosaur is cool

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09-17-2020 , 06:35 PM

#44

pwnsall

CFBBPC

Join Date: Jun 2006 Posts: 65,612

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09-17-2020 , 06:35 PM

#45

VoraciousReader

Carpal \'Tunnel

Join Date: Apr 2005 Posts: 34,276

I strongly disagreed with him and felt that he was misrepresenting some things including clearly not reading something I linked him to while presenting as if he had, but I was surprised by the ban.

I'm pretty much completely unfamiliar with his body of work but nothing struck me as ban worthy in the former thread. Can't claim he added much value and I had privately expressed some concerns about his good faith to Dustin.

Now I'm down a player for CYOA, though.

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09-17-2020 , 06:35 PM

#46

pwnsall

CFBBPC

Join Date: Jun 2006 Posts: 65,612

Alright that's enough. Is this the real new thread?

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09-17-2020 , 06:36 PM

#47

Uglydelicious

Carpal \'Tunnel

Join Date: Jul 2020 Posts: 7,062

Quote:

Originally Posted by VoraciousReader

Now I'm down a player for CYOA, though.

This makes me sad too

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09-17-2020 , 06:41 PM

#48

Mark_K

Fast Food Value KING

Join Date: May 2006 Posts: 28,206

Quote:

Originally Posted by pwnsall

Alright that's enough. Is this the real new thread?

Keep the cat gifs comics coming! It's the best part of the politics threads in years.

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09-17-2020 , 06:43 PM

#49

Sun Tzu

laconic

Join Date: Jun 2008 Posts: 84,770

Quote:

Originally Posted by VoraciousReader

after reading some of his stuff in the politics subforum, I got the impression he was "hiding his power level" over here

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09-17-2020 , 06:46 PM

#50

Eric Clipperton

veteran

Join Date: Feb 2014 Posts: 2,450

If anyone doesn't know, the minority alt-right posters from the politics forum have been supported and encouraged by the 2p2 admins and that forum is now a complete cesspool which is why someone like Kelhus is allowed there.

Most of the decent posters from there started a new website https://unstuckpolitics.com/

They play some games there too. Not too much yet.

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