Open Side Menu Go to the Top
Register
POG Politics Thread POG Politics Thread

08-11-2012 , 01:13 AM
Paul Ryan as VP? LOL.
08-11-2012 , 01:26 AM
Wow. I cannot see how Romney can win with Mr Heartless as his running mate.
08-11-2012 , 01:38 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Monkey Banana
Wow. I cannot see how Romney can win with Mr Heartless as his running mate.
I was having a tough time seeing him win anyway. But Paul Ryan as a VP pick is just LOLterrible.
08-11-2012 , 01:44 AM
I don't see the strategy at all.

[ ] helps win a swing state
[ ] helps with any minority group
[ ] helps with women
[ ] helps with independents

Outside of picking Palin or Bachmann, I'm not sure he could have done worse.
08-11-2012 , 01:45 AM
It doesnt really matter. Obamas winning anyway
08-11-2012 , 01:53 AM
He's trying to double down on "competent to deal with the economy". The right praised Ryan's budget to the hilt and I think he's mistaken that for its actually being any good.

I'm not sure which constituency that isn't already voting for him is supposed to be attracted by "let's solve our economic problems by reducing you to penury in your retirement and shovelling the money we save to the rich" though.
08-11-2012 , 02:12 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Monkey Banana
Is there a Russia-Georgia thing apart from the usual?


AFAIK, Russia simply applies the same sphere of influence/buffer zone policy it has throughout its history.
OP
08-11-2012 , 02:18 AM
Oh right, dur.
08-11-2012 , 02:24 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Anarchist
It doesnt really matter. Obamas winning anyway
From my casual reading of Nate thingymajig's blog, this seems as yet far from certain
08-11-2012 , 11:19 AM
MB is a troll, no one could be that stupid.
08-11-2012 , 11:20 AM
I agree Romney does not have a chance of winning the election. You heard it here first.
08-11-2012 , 11:31 AM
i wish romney had the balls to choose a more liberal running mate
08-11-2012 , 11:46 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by eyebooger
I was having a tough time seeing him win anyway. But Paul Ryan as a VP pick is just LOLterrible.
i think he had a much better chance than the media and liberals in general gave him credit for

the black vote will be way down compared to 4 years ago

and people are not happy with the economy.

but he should have chosen a more liberal candidate; or even rice, who isn't more liberal but would have rocked the black vote


as it stands, i think it will be closer than many think. and it will rally the conservative base, sure.

but i do agree obama likely gets the moderate vote now
08-11-2012 , 03:02 PM
paul is good looking. has nobody mentioned this?
08-11-2012 , 03:08 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by iversonian
paul is good looking. has nobody mentioned this?
I didn't notice
08-11-2012 , 03:10 PM
how tall is he?
08-11-2012 , 06:53 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by ObezyankaNol
MB is a troll, no one could be that stupid.
You're giving it the college try.
08-11-2012 , 06:58 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by eyebooger
I don't see the strategy at all.

[ ] helps win a swing state
[ ] helps with any minority group
[ ] helps with women
[ ] helps with independents

Outside of picking Palin or Bachmann, I'm not sure he could have done worse.
On the other hand...

Quote:
Originally Posted by DVaut1
I actually agree with ikes. I can't say exactly how Ryan moves the needle, but my gut first-impression is this is one of the best picks Romney could have made. Getting the base excited, and wanting to show up and vote, and donate, and knock doors, blah blah meow chow, is very important. And winning over that crowd is still a potential liability for Romney, I think. 'Swing voters' are clueless ****tards, the Democrats crapping on his budget and making it stick for that crowd is a tough row to hoe. It's an esoteric, wonky debate for lots of people. Swing voters see a smiling middle-aged white guy with nice kids with a middle class Midwestern background. The debate about gutting Medicare might go over their head. The right wing gets an ideologue. It's hard to say exactly how it plays out, but he doesn't seem some kind of repulsive reptile on first blush like Gingrich or whatever, I think he passes the 'swing-voter' smell test for pleasant sounding nice man or whatever.

In general, regarding Ryan, I would say I'm confident he appeals to the base. I think I can look at soft metrics (pundit opinions, Freeper and RedState temperature taking, etc.) and feel confident saying that. I don't feel confident saying independents and swing voters loathe him.

But that's just a guess. Maybe the facts about Ryan's appeals are different (I don't think we have enough polling to know). But that's neither here nor there. I agree with ikes that don't think it's clear and obvious Romney "needs independents" and not his base. Getting the right excited and energized is very critical and there's only so much political maneuvering you can do to appeal to the nougaty middle of the electorate. Using a high-profile event to give the base some red-meat seems tactically smart here. In the real world, you have to deal with humans who have liabilities and stuff, and there's no perfect candidate for the GOPers (a quarter black/quarter Latino/quarter woman/quarter old white guy non-Mormon Christian who is against abortion, hates government spending, and ObamaCare, but also, speaks compassionately and empathetically about the plight of lower-middle class people in modern America, and speaks a soft-and-subtle distrust of gay people but no so much that suburban women are offended or whatever). That person doesn't exist. The right has an endless list of litmus tests their candidates have to hit. I think Ryan get there on most or all of them. He can't win without the right. Romney had to choose from real human beings and I think this is generally a 'good' choice given the available alternatives. Ryan hits most of the key nerves on the right in a positive way and, as I said, doesn't seem immediately offensive to the rest of the planet.

Also, and more generally, just about the wisdom of the pick -- there's other benefits too. He seems pretty articulate and clearly capable of talking with confidence about the federal budget in ways that are approaching factual accuracy. This makes him a good bit better than like 99% of GOPers. When Obama had that debate in Baltimore with Congressional GOPers in 2010, Ryan seemed like the only guy in the room save the President who actually knew anything about how government and calculators worked. As I said, he seems a good bit more impressive than other GOPers, let alone someone like Palin. Knowing you can put him on the teevee to talk to the Meet the Press types, let alone Katie Couric, and he can repeat talking points, maybe even field an unprepared-for question, and he's not going to vomit up inane word salad -- that's a nice benefit too.
08-11-2012 , 07:05 PM
McCain also picked someone the base loved. That worked.
08-11-2012 , 07:07 PM
Quote:
You simply assume as axiomatic that technological innovation is impossible without capitalism. Yet the Soviets electrified Russia.
Because they could price their factors according to non-Soviet markets.

Quote:
I understand why Austrians hate the idea of more money but their prescriptions only serve wealth holders. They lead to misery for those who do not have wealth to begin with.
This is just flat out wrong.

Quote:
Money is not real. Fundamentally, you need to begin from that understanding. It represents claims on real things.
Quote:
Worse, you condemn economies not to grow. Given that we do things for money and stuff, if you hold money constant, there simply isn't anything to pay for new goods and services with. So people stop providing them and your economy starts to decline.
Without money you can still trade stuff. It's pretty damn inconvenient but you can still trade and get the things you want. You can trade your labour for some apples for example.
But because this trading is really annoying if you want to trade for a house and so forth guess what...people will trade for something that has certain characteristics which can serve as a medium for exchange. The famous prison camp cigaret paper pretty much explains this well. The halloween candy blogpost is also excellent.

Last edited by clowntable; 08-11-2012 at 07:19 PM.
08-11-2012 , 07:16 PM
Interesting post from DVaut.

But the pick still screams "I'm not confident that I have my base locked up" (Considering how long Santorum stuck around, there may be good reason for that). It seems extremely desperate, and the attack ads from the Democrats almost write themselves.

Ryan's no dummy though, so we'll see.
08-11-2012 , 07:31 PM
Quote:
taxation = theft is silly. property = theft is more nuanced
Huh? Taxation=theft makes logical sense as long as taxes are not voluntary. Property=theft makes no sense at all because it is just a self referential cluster****.

Which brings me to an interesting question. Assume your country would do something very radical and switch to an all voluntary form of taxation. You simply look at how much you made in a year and decide what %age you decide to give to government to spend on whatever programs they run.

I take it most ZOMG capitalism is evil folks would think this %age would approach 0?

I'll make a claim that whatever taxrate we'd arrive at in this mental experiment would be an excellent measuring stick for the boundaries of government size.
08-11-2012 , 10:26 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by clowntable
Huh? Taxation=theft makes logical sense as long as taxes are not voluntary. Property=theft makes no sense at all because it is just a self referential cluster****.
I don't equate the meaning of the word "theft" in those 2 examples. I don't agree that property=theft but I think it's an interesting notion that has merit and is worth exploring (for some people, not me ).

Of course taxation=theft makes sense but it's just such an obtuse way to look at taxation I find it utterly silly.

Quote:
Originally Posted by clowntable
Which brings me to an interesting question. Assume your country would do something very radical and switch to an all voluntary form of taxation. You simply look at how much you made in a year and decide what %age you decide to give to government to spend on whatever programs they run.

I take it most ZOMG capitalism is evil folks would think this %age would approach 0?

I'll make a claim that whatever taxrate we'd arrive at in this mental experiment would be an excellent measuring stick for the boundaries of government size.
um, yea 90% of people would pay ~0%(myself included). I believe in the potential of the individual but the individual can be very selfish atm. The collective is can be ****ed. Maybe that's why I don't see taxation as theft and governments as bad. I want to elect a government that would make it illegal for me to do things that are against the interest of the collective (within reason-I like to maximize freedom of the individual, so long as it isn't at the expense of a minority subset of the collective).

fwiw, I do think capitalism was a decent stepping stone for lolhumanity and we'll have some form of capitalism for a long time in the future. It's just lolobvious to me that reforms are necessary and slow steps to shorten the gap between the rich and poor need to be taken (as they have been and will continue to be taken). We need regulations, humans can't handle a free market, imo.

/lolrant with lolterminology
08-12-2012 , 04:51 AM
Quote:
I want to elect a government that would make it illegal for me to do things that are against the interest of the collective
I think this is a mindset I can't ever (fully) understand. It's like we are living in different paradigms.
08-12-2012 , 04:59 AM
I immediately regret reading some posts itt.

Won't happen again.

      
m