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Old Today, 06:17 PM   #79526
kokiri
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Re: POG Politics Thread

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Originally Posted by bahbahmickey View Post
lol at not understanding how investing helps the economy.
investments in secondary markets like the stock market and bond markets is very different from investments in new business and productive capacity. LOL conflationments
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Old Today, 06:18 PM   #79527
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Re: POG Politics Thread

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Originally Posted by bahbahmickey View Post
lol at not understanding how investing helps the economy.



There models don't account for economic growth which is the whole point of cutting taxes.

That is like having a model estimate the speed for a car and it totally ignores when someone is pushing the gas medal. Only the federal government could be so stupid to use those models.
How do you grow the economy without demand? How does buying stock in a company increase the demand for their products. What happens if you open a factory building a product their is no demand for?
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Old Today, 06:25 PM   #79528
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Re: POG Politics Thread

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Originally Posted by bahbahmickey View Post
When has it not?
As has been pointed out numerous times, 2010s Kansas.
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Old Today, 06:47 PM   #79529
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Re: POG Politics Thread

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Originally Posted by kokiri View Post
Intellectual and political bubbles, hey? Crazy.
What?
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Old Today, 06:55 PM   #79530
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Re: POG Politics Thread

Bah bah, I get that it is a long shot since you seem to be quite a novice when it comes to basic economics, but do you understand what the concept of “velocity of money” is?

If not you should read about it
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Old Today, 06:56 PM   #79531
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Re: POG Politics Thread

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Typical Bah, trying to get the opposition to do his homework and claiming he was raised by wolves about the topic.

Trickle down has never worked Bah, so I’m going to say “every time it was tried.”
Why should I have to defend what is held as true by the majority of economists. As long as liberals point to the overwhelming majority of scientists saying global warming is real as proof that it is a fact I am going to point to the overwhelming majority of economists that say trickle down works as proof of a fact.
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Old Today, 06:59 PM   #79532
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Re: POG Politics Thread

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Originally Posted by kerowo View Post
How do you grow the economy without demand? How does buying stock in a company increase the demand for their products. What happens if you open a factory building a product their is no demand for?
Please google supply side economics.

I'll give you a little teaser: On the barren island where 100 people were fishing with sharp sticks (this was talked about yesterday ITT) there was never a demand for nets until our hero made a few.
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Old Today, 07:01 PM   #79533
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Re: POG Politics Thread

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Originally Posted by eyebooger View Post
As has been pointed out numerous times, 2010s Kansas.
8 years and one state is not proof an economic theory doesn't work. Next are we going to start looking at how one time a small pocket pair beat aces as proof that aces suck? Take a look at countries and compare how pro or anti-business their laws are over 100 years and get back to me.
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Old Today, 07:02 PM   #79534
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Re: POG Politics Thread

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Originally Posted by Birdman10687 View Post
Bah bah, I get that it is a long shot since you seem to be quite a novice when it comes to basic economics, but do you understand what the concept of “velocity of money” is?

If not you should read about it
I do. Please continue.
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Old Today, 07:13 PM   #79535
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Re: POG Politics Thread

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Originally Posted by bahbahmickey View Post
Why should I have to defend what is held as true by the majority of economists. As long as liberals point to the overwhelming majority of scientists saying global warming is real as proof that it is a fact I am going to point to the overwhelming majority of economists that say trickle down works as proof of a fact.
Quote:
Originally Posted by bahbahmickey View Post
8 years and one state is not proof an economic theory doesn't work. Next are we going to start looking at how one time a small pocket pair beat aces as proof that aces suck? Take a look at countries and compare how pro or anti-business their laws are over 100 years and get back to me.
All you have to do is give us one example of when it did work to shut us up. If it's so popular it should be easy. I know it was all the rage in the 80's with Regan and that it didn't work then.
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Old Today, 07:16 PM   #79536
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Re: POG Politics Thread

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Originally Posted by bahbahmickey View Post
Please google supply side economics.

I'll give you a little teaser: On the barren island where 100 people were fishing with sharp sticks (this was talked about yesterday ITT) there was never a demand for nets until our hero made a few.
You mean trickle down economics, which we're already waiting for you to prove works since it hasn't yet.
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Old Today, 07:17 PM   #79537
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Re: POG Politics Thread

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Using whatever scoring model was used on the tax reform being voted on. Over that time period. If you didn’t know it was scored as adding 1.4 trillion to the deficit, which is going to be the lever the conservatives are going to use to screw Medicare and social security.
You got any comment on this Bah?
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Old Today, 07:33 PM   #79538
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Re: POG Politics Thread

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Originally Posted by Birdman10687 View Post
do you understand what the concept of “velocity of money” is?
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Old Today, 07:50 PM   #79539
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Re: POG Politics Thread

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sure thing...

his campaign of hope and change was all about a new era. there was no hope or change. far and away the four most important issues in the usa were war, environmental crisis, healthcare, and the wallstreet real estate crimes(called financial crisis). he went 100% against the interests of black people on all 4.

ok maybe not 100% wrong on the environment, but he did refuse to show up at any climate talks. he took huge money from oil. he expanded offshore drilling. oil and gas liked him enough to campaign for him.
He did more for the environment than any president in my lifetime, and he did it pretty much singlehandedly. He expanded off-shore drilling to assist with economic growth, and try to help the poor/blacks you claim he hurt with the offshore drilling policy.

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he expanded war on terror
I don't have enough knowledge to get into this, but I will acquire some. I know he increased troops temporarily, but then he brought them way down. He did order a lot of strikes. During that period I was routinely in and out of mental hospitals, so I sometimes had difficulty staying current on news, or comprehending it.

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during his campaign he said he would bring in cameras in to the healthcare talks, so everyone could see who was blocking universal healthcare. then as president he didn't even try for universal healthcare. and there were no cameras so we could watch the meetings.


This is just untrue. He never promised universal healthcare during his campaign. He outlined his healthcare plan at great length, and it always involved a buy in for all but the poorest of Americans. It was one of the reasons I was uncertain about supporting him vs Hilary, who actually did have a universal coverage plan as part of her platform.

HOWEVER, if not for the Supreme Court deciding that states don't have to follow federal law, the ACA would have revolutionized life for the working poor across the country. Unfortunately, only states that adopted the Medicaid expansion reaped the benefits. That is not Obama's fault. And most of the extra millions of people that ARE covered are the poorer ones.

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and he didn't prosecute any NOT A SINGLE one of the criminals who stole billions of dollars from all of us in the 2008 collapse. not only did he fail to prosecute, he gave them what, a trillion dollars? i don't remember the amount. and just recently collected large fees from wall street to come and speak.


Not nearly enough heads rolled here. I completely agree. The absence of significant financial reform is the thing I am most angry at the Democratic party about. That said, I'm not sure how more heads rolling would have actually "helped" the poor, or how the lack of that happening "hurt" them.

As far as the bailout, I think something along those lines HAD to happen, but the American people got outplayed. The financial sector took what it needed and we didn't demand enough quid pro quo. I don't define it as hurting the poor/blacks, though.

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there is a political prisoner who has been wasting away on death row, mumia abu jamal. obama could have pardoned him, but didn't. he was convicted for killing a white police officer, but the case is clearly fos.
This is ridiculous.

Quote:
obama always "shrewdly" kept his distance from being "too black" on racial issues. white people loved that about him.

did nothing about the war on drugs that puts millions of americans, mostly affecting the black community, in prison for drug crimes.


Nope. Just didn't brag about it.

Vox

Quote:
i don't know if i made it to 10, but going against your 4 main issues should be enough. most campaigns people can't even name 4 issues.

and this was just off the top of my head. i'm sure there were a million little things he did to against the interests of the poor. and sadly, interests of the poor are pretty much the same as interests of blacks


now, i expect you to make excuses for him. "it wasn't his fault" "he would have done good things if everyone hadn't blocked him" "it's the political reality of today that you have to take money from oil and gas, and healthcare lobbyists, and wallstreet"
I think he could have done a lot more, and would have if the Democratic party weren't a bunch of moral cowards and, yes, in some cases bought and paid for. But I will always be grateful that when he realized that he couldn't work with Congress after the 2014 elections, he decided **** them and started doing a lot within the confines of the Executive Branch.

On a personal note, a lot of people would consider me poor based on my income and living situation. I don't because I'm blessed with a lot of advantages that aren't available to people who grew up in poverty. But as I've struggled over the last few years I've had to do things like sell my TV, disconnect my internet, rent a room in a shared house, make decisions between being able to buy prescription cat food for my geriatric cat or antipsychotic medication for myself, and even give up driving and contemplate selling my only car.

The ACA is the only reason I MAY not have to file bankruptcy, because the literal months that I spent in mental facilities were mostly paid for. And when I worked on the front lines of enrolling people in healthcare, I met a lot of people who would qualify as poor that were going to have access to healthcare for the first time in their lives. Don't discount that and act like it's no big deal. It's a huge deal.

Last edited by VoraciousReader; Today at 07:57 PM.
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Old Today, 08:09 PM   #79540
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Re: POG Politics Thread

saying he did more for the environment than any president in your lifetime is meaningless. all the presidents in your lifetime may be looked back on by future generations as unbelievably criminal and idiotic in their treatment of the planet... assuming there are future generations to look back.

drone strikes increased like crazy under obama. and it became openly legal for him to execute anyone he considered a threat. 20 years ago it was considered crazy to give the president authority to execute anyone he wanted with no oversight. now it's the law of the land.

you admitted you were a little unclear on the war on terror. i'll admit i'm a little unclear on healthcare. you're probably right that he didn't campaign for universal healthcare. he should have. i think he advocated for it when he was a senator. and maybe you're right that i shouldn't dismiss aca, but i'm so angry about it that i do dismiss it. it's infuriating to me that we don't have universal healthcare. it's what the people want. it's what other countries have. we are far and away the wealthiest country in the world.

and why didn't he campaign for universal healthcare? the only reason i can think of is deference to corporate interests. health insurance companies want to bleed us dry. people want universal healthcare. obama sided with insurance companies. maybe you think aca was all that was possible, so obama settled for that. i don't believe that. we can get universal healthcare if we had political leaders who would say no to health insurance lobby.

i have a hard time believing you don't understand how it hurts poor people to fail to prosecute people who steal our money. do you want me to explain it to you? or do you realize now it helps when they are prosecuted, and it hurts when they aren't?

hope my tone didn't come off as too hostile
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Old Today, 08:10 PM   #79541
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Re: POG Politics Thread

No, after I typed that of course it made sense. But I don't hold Obama personally responsible for that. Maybe I should.

Last edited by VoraciousReader; Today at 08:15 PM. Reason: No, I don't think I should.
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Old Today, 08:18 PM   #79542
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Re: POG Politics Thread

sometimes i have an extreme reaction to obama. we are so desperate for hope and change and he exploited that. to me, that is especially despicable.

so many people were so full of hope
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Old Today, 08:33 PM   #79543
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Re: POG Politics Thread

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Originally Posted by filthyvermin View Post
sometimes i have an extreme reaction to obama. we are so desperate for hope and change and he exploited that. to me, that is especially despicable.

so many people were so full of hope
Today in the POG Politics thread: Filthy learns that most sheeple are dumb. And that politicians gonna politician.

News at 11.
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