Would you rather be born black or white in America?

I don't know nearly as much as y'all do. I don't think not knowing the right words/not fully understanding/questioning privilege makes you a fascist (which I'm sure Jack is going to say is a common liberal argument).

I do think privilege, at least if applied in the correct scenarios, is more or less an undeniable fact. But I will step aside and let someone else give examples.

Nazi privatization was an oligarchic consolidation. What happened there was merely the deformalization of state control.

I strongly recommend "Look Who's Back" on this topic.

The thing is, the Nazi party really did not hide their intentions.

Black...or mocha.

Whites are going down.

There you go. No one is going to be able to convince you there is such a thing as white privilege if you see black folks as having the advantages.

dude, Peterson never said there was no such thing

where in America?

You are asserting there are areas of America with black privilege? Don't say Chicago.

I mean rhetorical questions aside, let's presume whatever you are saying is true:

Blacks are worse off in America (and elsewhere for that matter..Brazil even and elsewhere in Latin america). And never call a Brazilian a Latina btw they hate that)

So then what? How does that traslate to privilege? Is privilige some sort of psychological notion? Can it be tested for? Can it be measured? What consequences does our understanding of it bring?

Sidebar

Dr. West defines a neoliberal as someone whose solution to social problems takes three forms: privatize, financialize, militarize. Useful.

I did not know that! Highly useful info.

Privilege in America is the concrete result of slavery and systematic rasicm in America over 400 years. It's not a state of mind.

What is privilige?

I've known plenty of broke ass white people from mid Missouri who are addicted to meth (or now opiates) and they don't seem too privileged.

The idea of systematic racism isn't very new. But how is it translated to privilege? Especially if privilige isn't a psychological concept.

But like....if privilige means that you can get away driving worse in nicer cars because you're less likely to get pulled over....then I will concede argument there. Racism exists for sure. But I still don't see how privilige is a meaningful concept.

I believe in privlege I'm just not shocked others are slow to accept it (this seems obvious) or that they have a desire to defend themselves when called out (also am obvious human reaction)

Good to know I can just claim I'm being Weinsteined when someone leverages their power dynamic against me now.

God this thread as just become so reactionary

Dustin you are almost onto something. In many ways the concept of privilege is a flawed concept. But certainly not for the reasons Peterson is suggesting, and perhaps also not for the reasons you are suggesting either. In many ways “white privilege” as a concept is just a bourgeoisie manifestation of the material realities of capitalist oppression.

I'm sure you are aware that there are situations in which it is better to be black than white, and that there are areas where these situations arise more often.

there is white privilege, there is black privilege

they do not balance each other out


privilege is context

Peterson complains of privilege used, not as a lens, but as a bludgeon

Luckbox, thoughts on this?

globalism without globalists?

Are you seriously trying to say there is such a thing as “black privilege”?

I had wanted to respond to it but I'm only partway thinking I understand what you're getting at.

I thought Amp had the idea right when he discussed sports teams and the like.

I don't necessarily know if I agree that tribal identification is rising (in Kenya my point was it's sort of the opposite).

I think the rise of nationalism that you see now occurring in the west is due more to the economics of globalism than any sort of resurgent tribal instincts, if that is what you were getting at.

Black people are considered more cool. More dangerous/tougher? More likely to be bouncers I imagine.

I wouldn't say there are many areas, though. But obviously if you believe in privlege you believe they exist.

Wonder why he thinks the idea of white privilege = an ethnic group with a collective crime? Seems like a strawman.

It's weird how he "doesn't disagree that white people aren't privileged" because I think that implies that the only problem with the concept he has is about how it's being used in arguments. But then he goes on to say that privileged people should just work hard or something so that the privilege doesn't seem so unearned, as if nothing could or should be done to help the underprivileged. That's the bit that seems a little white supremecy-y.

A good poster in the politics thread had a post criticizing how the concept of privilege is often used. It basically said that underclass whites will ally with the white ruling class over the minority underclass for a social benefit, which seems pretty irrefutable looking back at history. But the concept of white privilege is often tied to the idea whites get social and economic benefit from being white, and that both of these benefits need to be corrected in order to be just. But it ignores that the white underclass isn't really getting much of the economic benefit from the white ruling class, and that actually if the underclass whites would ally with the underclass minorities instead, they would be receiving greater social and economic benefits than if they ally with the ruling class, or something like that. I might be butchering this.

really? damnit! i have a ton of trans neighbors. i should know this. i don't talk to people in real life much.

what is the respectful designation? trans?

i think they have breasts and penises if it makes a difference.

Trans implies they aren't really women or men or whatever.