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Old 03-24-2019, 10:06 AM   #17326
iamnotawerewolf
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Re: POG Politics Thread

Quote:
Originally Posted by Birdman10687 View Post
Elizabeth Warren and the Dems super salty that Trump would lift the genocidal sanctions against the DPRK:
can you point to a single "genocidal sanction" against the DPRK?
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Old 03-24-2019, 11:05 PM   #17327
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Re: POG Politics Thread

Quote:
Originally Posted by iamnotawerewolf View Post
looking just a little into it (maybe 10 minutes?), I find (warning, PDF):




you are making things up whole cloth
Thanks for linking me to a summary provided by a think tank funded by the US government. The efforts by which you bend over backwards to deny the reality of US imperialism never ceases to amaze me. Even in your incredibly biased source it points out a key point you ignored:

Quote:
Some analysts are concerned that the stronger sanctions on PdVSA will further exacerbate Venezuela’s difficult humanitarian crisis, already marked by shortages of food and medicines and mass migration, by limiting the country’s key source of revenue. This is a particular concern in the event that Maduro remains in power over an extended period of time.
Maybe use more than 10 minutes to undersrand a complex situation next time, IANAW. I just find it funny how hard and quickly you rush to exonerate the US government of any blame.
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Old 03-24-2019, 11:09 PM   #17328
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Re: POG Politics Thread

Hey birdman, I spent 10 minutes investigating your claims and have found a US government funded report that says the US government is actually the good guys.

From this thorough research I have determined you are “making things up whole cloth”

Also, please ignore the part of the report that makes me look like an uninformed moron. It was only two pages—I couldn’t be bothered to spend any more time.
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Old 03-24-2019, 11:11 PM   #17329
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Re: POG Politics Thread

I also like that you ignored the part where the US and UK literally just stole several billion dollars of VZ gold that was going to be used to buy medical supplies
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Old 03-24-2019, 11:12 PM   #17330
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Re: POG Politics Thread

Wondering if crossnerd is going to come in here and ask that IANAW be banned for linking to something he hadn’t fully read
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Old 03-25-2019, 01:45 AM   #17331
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Re: POG Politics Thread

Gfy
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Old 03-25-2019, 02:12 AM   #17332
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Re: POG Politics Thread

guy at the table tonight told me that between himself, his brother, sister, and his son they spent 45 years in the marines.
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Old 03-25-2019, 06:14 AM   #17333
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Re: POG Politics Thread

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Originally Posted by Birdman10687 View Post
Maybe use more than 10 minutes to undersrand a complex situation next time, IANAW.
The last time we discussed this topic you'd spent days arguing that you were right and everyone else was wrong before conceding that you've paid little attention to Venezuela and were just going by some articles you read in the past which you'd thought you were mostly remembering correctly.
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Old 03-25-2019, 07:39 AM   #17334
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Re: POG Politics Thread

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The last time we discussed this topic you'd spent days arguing that you were right and everyone else was wrong before conceding that you've paid little attention to Venezuela and were just going by some articles you read in the past which you'd thought you were mostly remembering correctly.
Did you just make this up?
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Old 03-25-2019, 07:52 AM   #17335
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Re: POG Politics Thread

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Maduro called an election and invited international observers to monitor the election. The opposition candidates rejected the international observers. Then when it was clear they weren’t going to win the US pressured the opposition candidates to withdraw from the election and call it a farce. International observers have since ruled it valid
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Originally Posted by Luckbox Inc View Post
How sure are you that this narrative is correct?
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Originally Posted by Birdman10687 View Post
I'm speaking off memory from stuff that happened a while ago but I'm relatively certain of my high level recounting of events. I would be lying if I said I follow Venezuelan politics like a hawk.
.
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Old 03-25-2019, 08:01 AM   #17336
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Re: POG Politics Thread

For that matter, following those posts you never did back up your argument that the election had been certified by legitimate outside observers even after I made this post:

Quote:
Originally Posted by soah View Post
It's also worth pointing out that this is the same publication that concluded that "international observers" had certified the election results by interviewing a native-born Venezuelan who is a member of a far-left political activist group who swore up and down that everything was okay.
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Old 03-25-2019, 08:10 AM   #17337
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Re: POG Politics Thread

Quote:
Originally Posted by soah View Post
The last time we discussed this topic you'd spent days arguing that you were right and everyone else was wrong before conceding that you've paid little attention to Venezuela and were just going by some articles you read in the past which you'd thought you were mostly remembering correctly.
Im still waiting for you to show me when any of this happened. Because what you have quoted so far is not it.



This

Quote:
you've paid little attention to Venezuela
does not mean the same thing as:

Quote:
Originally Posted by Birdman10687 View Post
I would be lying if I said I follow Venezuelan politics like a hawk.
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Old 03-25-2019, 08:12 AM   #17338
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Re: POG Politics Thread

I legitimately do not mean this as a troll, Soah. Is English your first language? If it’s not I feel like some of your misunderstandings are reasonable given the idiomatic nature of the way I post.
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Old 03-25-2019, 11:13 AM   #17339
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Re: POG Politics Thread

You said you were "going off of memory" after days of people telling you the things you were saying weren't true.

I'll go off of memory to see how many I can come up with:

1) You keep saying the election was certified by international observers, but haven't established who they were or why they were credible. Notably, the UN refused to send observers because of irregularities prior to to the act of voting, including things which are 100% irrefutable such as the fact that the election date was moved up with little advance notice.

2) You insisted for days that no opposition candidates had been prevented from running, but once someone finally started asking you about them by name you just said "oh well it's okay that they were jailed because they were charged with a crime."

3) You presented one poll which contradicted all the others and said it was the unbiased one and all the others were fake, but after Googling a few minutes I found that that polling agency was run by Chavez cronies and there were other big red flags about them (including the fact that they'd stopped updating their website yet were still feeding supposed survey results directly to government officials).

4) You said that the only reason Venezuela's oil production dropped was because the drop in oil prices changed the economic calculations regarding how much to produce, but oil production in Venezuela actually dropped consistently ever since Chavez took power despite oil prices surging to unprecedented levels a few years back and despite the fact that oil prices are currently right in line with historical trends.

5) I note that you didn't respond yesterday when I asked why it wouldn't be Chavez/Maduro's fault that there's a food shortage in Venezuela given that they'd been nationalizing the food industry and setting price controls. If you're going to blame this on oil exports then you'll need to address point #4 first -- and then explain why it would be sensible to rely on something as volatile as oil prices to generate food for millions of people. And while I couldn't find hard statistics on Venezuela's food production, there are overwhelming reports that production has fallen substantially due to lack of investment to maintain and/or expand the infrastructure.
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Old 03-25-2019, 12:04 PM   #17340
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Re: POG Politics Thread

"Refusing to buy our oil is genocide" - Birdman
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Old 03-25-2019, 12:05 PM   #17341
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Re: POG Politics Thread

Quote:
Originally Posted by Birdman10687 View Post
moron
Ablist slur itt
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Old 03-25-2019, 01:58 PM   #17342
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Re: POG Politics Thread

The sad thing is i think birdman thinks he makes sense and soah is crazy
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Old 03-25-2019, 01:59 PM   #17343
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Re: POG Politics Thread

Hamas fires rocket at Israeli home, house destroyed, 7 injured including infant

Netenyahu leaving Aipac early because of this

Israel will retaliate and birdman will call them western imperialists who need to be sanctioned
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Old 03-25-2019, 02:02 PM   #17344
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Re: POG Politics Thread

Birdman

Do you consider Palestine a legit state and Abas the leader?

Assuming yes, do you consider them a fascist state?

Are you okay with them not allowing Jews to live their in your one state solution where Israrl ceases to exist?

Should i expect any answers or are you still refusing to play my cunning games?
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Old 03-25-2019, 02:18 PM   #17345
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Re: POG Politics Thread

Quote:
Originally Posted by Birdman10687 View Post
I legitimately do not mean this as a troll, Soah. Is English your first language? If it’s not I feel like some of your misunderstandings are reasonable given the idiotic nature of the way I post.
fyp
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Old 03-25-2019, 03:12 PM   #17346
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Re: POG Politics Thread

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Like if the media was anything other than a corporate institution who served the interests of the rich, Rachel Maddow would not have a job. Instead Ed Schultz doesn’t have a job because he spoke out again the Iraq war that turned out to be not just a total sham, but one of the most devastating endeavors ever performed by humankind.
Yes that and he is literally dead
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Old 03-25-2019, 03:43 PM   #17347
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Re: POG Politics Thread

Gaza rockets aimed at civilian communities

I expect zero outrage from Bird
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Old 03-25-2019, 04:02 PM   #17348
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Re: POG Politics Thread

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I was just wondering about a lawyer's responsibility to act in the best interest of his/her clients.

It strikes me that Avenatti is not doing his client (Swetnick) any favours by representing her. I would imagine any initial conversation between Swetnick and Avenatti should have gone like this.

(1) people are going to question the timing of your statements
(2) people are going to question my motives as your lawyer, as I have had at least one major public battle with Trump, and have publicly talked about running against him in the next election.
(3) If I represent you it could weaken the perception of your claims, just because I am your lawyer. At a minimum, it will give those who want to dismiss you ammunition.
(4) therefore, I suggest that it is in your best interest to NOT have me represent you.

From a professional perspective, Avenatti has to know that representing her is not in HER best interest, but it is only HIS best interest.

I mean you have Ford about to testify with this whole "Dems are behind all this last minute stuff," and then Avenatti gets his nose into things, and this could actually hurt Ford as well as his own client.

What he is doing here just seems wrong to me... he should not be representing her..
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Yeah, I was flummoxed that anyone would choose him under these circumstances.
These posts aged well. Avenatti arrested for bank fraud, wire fraud, and extortion in two unrelated events.
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Old 03-25-2019, 04:07 PM   #17349
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Re: POG Politics Thread

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Originally Posted by metsandfinsfan View Post
The sad thing is i think birdman thinks he makes sense and soah is crazy
Birdman divides the world (at least geopolitically) into imperialist vs non-imperialist.

It is not a correct world-view (false dichotomy) but it still gives more insight than believing cable news or whatever is printed in wapo, nyt, etc.

What Birdman gets right about Venezuela is that the US/West has neither clean hands or clean motives. That is unfortunately just about all that he gets correct as his worldview clouds over any and all other issues related to the problems there.
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Old 03-25-2019, 04:11 PM   #17350
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Re: POG Politics Thread

Quote:
Originally Posted by Birdman10687 View Post
I mean we have people like Mets and Dustin coming in talking about how Maduro is withholding food or starving his own people or whatever—that is clearly ridiculous.
I never said that.
What I said was that there was a humanitarian crisis. Mets said that. But I don't speak for Mets.
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