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Old 03-14-2019, 05:02 PM   #16576
metsandfinsfan
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Re: POG Politics Thread

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Originally Posted by bsball8806 View Post
I think there are a good # of people who still believe "slow and steady wins the race" is the best policy - this is the group of people I think would actually benefit from reading posts like his. Clearly he (or I) isn't trying to reach anyone who doesn't even think it's a good idea by posting something like that.



Most people wouldn't call allowing women basic rights 'modernized' but I guess it just goes to show how out of date/touch Conservative and Orthodox Judaism really is with everyone but themselves

The orthodox are still completely sexist. Conservative Judaism was until the mid 90s or so

I agree that if conservative Judaism didn't stop being sexist it would have died. Orthodox still thrives

Fiddler on the roof shows how Judaism had to transform to survive. But orthodox hasnt

And yes one of the most ridiculous things in Israel imo is not having a section where men and women can pray together. Because the orthodox lobby has nenenyahu

This is off the point though

I was just saying that conservative Judaism has become more liberal on issues that their congregation believes in. But I'll still maintain that a large majority of conservative Jews are greatly pro Israel. And id guess in reform Judaism it's closer to 50 50
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Old 03-14-2019, 05:06 PM   #16577
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Re: POG Politics Thread

And since i see cross' post in the quote

If her point is most millennial Jews are secular and not pro israrl that is exactly my point. They are secular so wouldn't be joining a conservative synogauge.
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Old 03-14-2019, 05:09 PM   #16578
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Re: POG Politics Thread

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Originally Posted by Crossnerd View Post
Jews voted 75%+ democratic in the midterms, more than any other religious group.

This should tell you something about the state of our community. Its modernizing fast.

Trump is claiming that anti-Israel policies are making jews flee the democratic party. Meanwhile, 100% of the jewish senators are democrats, and 25/27 jewish congressmen are democrats.

The arguments for who has a sacred claim to which rock or wall or temple are quickly becoming things our generation doesn't ****ing care about dying over.
Its no surprise that as secularity rises so does progressivism
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Old 03-14-2019, 05:12 PM   #16579
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Re: POG Politics Thread

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Originally Posted by Luckbox Inc View Post
There is a super long list of hate crime hoaxes since Trump was elected that you can google about fwiw
Big ****ing shocker right here.

Lb has never met a hoax he wouldnt happily subscribe to
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Old 03-14-2019, 05:14 PM   #16580
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Re: POG Politics Thread

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Lb has never met a hoax he wouldnt happily subscribe to
The "hoax" that the Trump campaign colluded with Russians?
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Old 03-14-2019, 05:16 PM   #16581
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Re: POG Politics Thread

Bsball

What are you looking for out of a synogauge?

Do
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Old 03-14-2019, 05:23 PM   #16582
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Re: POG Politics Thread

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The "hoax" that the Trump campaign colluded with Russians?
Wow and lol

You realize even the media is giving up this narrative?
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Old 03-14-2019, 05:32 PM   #16583
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Re: POG Politics Thread

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I don't think this make the point you're going for.



If true, it'd just mean that type of behavior is so associated with the far right that it can be duplicated with the safe assumption that blame will be placed on the group that most often exhibits those behaviors. Thats why it works.
So remember when immediately after the election Richard Spencer was in Washington DC doing nazi salutes and all of a sudden became a household name?

How do you think that happens?

My point was that I would have to think twice before taking your bet that it was a "maga" that did that. And I might even have to get odds.
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Old 03-14-2019, 05:40 PM   #16584
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Re: POG Politics Thread

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Originally Posted by master3004 View Post
Big ****ing shocker right here.

Lb has never met a hoax he wouldnt happily subscribe to
https://www.zerohedge.com/news/2019-...ump-supporters

Here is an incomplete list of the hoaxes that have occurred in the last few years.
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Old 03-14-2019, 05:51 PM   #16585
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Re: POG Politics Thread

an obvious racist is president and luckbox is talking about fake racists
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Old 03-14-2019, 05:53 PM   #16586
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Re: POG Politics Thread

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an obvious racist is president and luckbox is talking about fake racists POG Politics Thread
Sorry I thought we were discussing hate crimes.
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Old 03-14-2019, 06:16 PM   #16587
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Re: POG Politics Thread

Quote:
Originally Posted by Luckbox Inc View Post
https://www.zerohedge.com/news/2019-...ump-supporters

Here is an incomplete list of the hoaxes that have occurred in the last few years.
Can you also link me their article that outlines all the real hate crimes that have happened in the last few years?
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Old 03-14-2019, 06:43 PM   #16588
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Re: POG Politics Thread

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Can you also link me their article that outlines all the real hate crimes that have happened in the last few years?
What are the biggest ones though? Most of the hate crimes that I can recall being well publicized are on that list.

*and from looking it looks like thousands are reported every year so it's a shame they give so much media attention to fake ones.
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Old 03-14-2019, 07:02 PM   #16589
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Re: POG Politics Thread

I'm an old?
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Old 03-14-2019, 07:04 PM   #16590
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Re: POG Politics Thread

LB there are like 9 listed on zerohedge. Even assuming they're all actual hoaxes, how many do you suppose are counted by something like SPLC?
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Old 03-14-2019, 07:09 PM   #16591
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Re: POG Politics Thread

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LB there are like 9 listed on zerohedge. Even assuming they're all actual hoaxes, how many do you suppose are counted by something like SPLC?
Thousands. It just seems like the real ones aren't covered and the ones that are turn out to be hoaxes.

*slpc in the news today. Co-founder forced out for unknown reasons, btw.
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Old 03-14-2019, 07:42 PM   #16592
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Re: POG Politics Thread

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Originally Posted by metsandfinsfan View Post
And since i see cross' post in the quote

If her point is most millennial Jews are secular and not pro israrl that is exactly my point. They are secular so wouldn't be joining a conservative synogauge.
I'm saying they're secular, and whether they are or are not pro-Israel, they wouldn't be pro for the same reasons as you and the older generation of Jews. You can either accept that and start making legit arguments, or you can keep talking about events from Biblical times.

For example, I believe Israel has a right to exist, but that belief doesn't stem from anything written in an ancient text. DUCY? Its because we're not religious.
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Old 03-14-2019, 08:03 PM   #16593
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Re: POG Politics Thread

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Originally Posted by metsandfinsfan View Post
I think the younger generation, even my generation, doesn't really understand what it was like before the state of Israel

I know of reform synogauges near me that i definitely would not consider zionest.

I think you should choose a synogauge you are comfortable with. But i think the synogauges realize that if Israel ceased to exist the Jewish religion would fairly shortly after

I think when young people go on birthright without preconceived notions and really learn the history and the current culture they'd feel differently

I have no issues with Jews wanting to visit Palestinian villages to learn. I spoke to a Muslim in jaffe for 2 hours .. he considered himself an Israeli not a Palestinian, and he spoke about how little prejudice there is throughout mainland Israel (as opposed to the west bank)

I think synogauges should allow open debate about it. At "Torah on tap" last Tuesday, i criticized the current netanyahu alliance with the far right, and of course it was compared by others to trump

I think discussing Israel is very important in the Jewish community. it's not discussed enough. You should be able to criticize without punishment in a synogauge as long as your criticsns are factual

I own Israeli savings bonds and have donated to aipac. I know many Jews that won't or wouldn't. That's okay

It's the misinformation and bias that is the issue

It's the un condemning israel but no other Mideast country that's the issue

Birdman has shown that he doesn't really want to have an adult discussion about it. That's his prerogative. Unfortunately that's become the prerogative of many American Jews now

I do favor a 2 state solution. The current Israeli government doesn't. Great, criticize that. On both sides.

American Judaism is hurting for many reasons. I don't think synogauges attacking Israel is going to help that. It will hurt it
We're just going to fundamentally disagree that American Judaism is "hurting" because it isn't religious enough or zionist enough for the older generation. Just go ahead and say you think some of us are being "bad jews" ffs. That's basically what you're saying here.
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Old 03-14-2019, 08:21 PM   #16594
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Re: POG Politics Thread

And I don't know about bsball, but literally zero jews I know have ever "attacked" israel. Pretty much everyone is "pro" israel. Its just a matter of what they could be doing better.
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Old 03-14-2019, 08:34 PM   #16595
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Re: POG Politics Thread

i got some hardcore anti israel jew friends... 2 out of the hundreds i grew up with.

and i have several friends who are hella left on many issues but get really defensive about israel. that seems common
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Old 03-14-2019, 09:46 PM   #16596
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Re: POG Politics Thread

American Judaism is hurting because it is empty.

Reading Hebrew without knowing what it means, reciting prayers with only vague notions of their purpose, and clinging to a bastardized (platonic) notion of divinity.

In a ghettoized society, a culture doesn't need much ideological substance to endure, you just do what you know, but American pluralism highlights the lethargy and superficiality of contemporary judaism.


The religion endured for 2000 years without a home state; it is absurd to suggest that controversy over one is now threatening the religion's continuation.
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Old 03-14-2019, 09:50 PM   #16597
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Re: POG Politics Thread

gaza shot 2 rockets into televiv aimed at civilians. none died.

israel will shoot back and civilians may die and israel will be called the devil

but remember people like bird dont have to condemn gaza for shooting first, just israel because they are the only country that matters
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Old 03-14-2019, 09:52 PM   #16598
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Re: POG Politics Thread

Quote:
Originally Posted by iamnotawerewolf View Post
American Judaism is hurting because it is empty.

Reading Hebrew without knowing what it means, reciting prayers with only vague notions of their purpose, and clinging to a bastardized (platonic) notion of divinity.

In a ghettoized society, a culture doesn't need much ideological substance to endure, you just do what you know, but American pluralism highlights the lethargy and superficiality of contemporary judaism.


The religion endured for 2000 years without a home state; it is absurd to suggest that controversy over one is now threatening the religion's continuation.
I go to torah on tap with the mens club, and i go in a separate room with one of the rabbis saturday mornings when i go to discuss the torah portion in detail for 45 minutes rather than listen to the hebrew

the modern prayer books also have tons of commentary which you can read instead of listening.

so no the religion isnt dyihng because of hebrew thats ridiculous
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Old 03-14-2019, 09:53 PM   #16599
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Re: POG Politics Thread

but i do agree that almost anyhoine who agrees that the religion is dying because of its beliefs and its language most likely doesnt give a **** about israel
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Old 03-14-2019, 10:26 PM   #16600
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Re: POG Politics Thread

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I'm saying they're secular, and whether they are or are not pro-Israel, they wouldn't be pro for the same reasons as you and the older generation of Jews. You can either accept that and start making legit arguments, or you can keep talking about events from Biblical times.

For example, I believe Israel has a right to exist, but that belief doesn't stem from anything written in an ancient text. DUCY? Its because we're not religious.
Mets may have given other reasons, but in his meager defense he has in fact offered modern, material reasons for Israel existing. Namely, that Jews had just experienced the Holocaust and were welcome in very few countries follows WWII
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