POG Politics Thread - Page 186 - Puzzles and Other Games Forum

Two Plus Two Forums Sports and Games Puzzles and Other Games

POG Politics Thread

Closed Subscribe

...

Page 186 of 1316

First

86 136 166 176 181 182 183 184 185 186 187 188 189 190 191 196 206 236 286 386 686 1186

Last

Page 186 of 1316

First

86 136 166 176 181 182 183 184 185 186 187 188 189 190 191 196 206 236 286 386 686 1186

Last

07-25-2018 , 11:49 PM

#4626

iamnotawerewolf

Carpal \'Tunnel

Join Date: Jul 2011 Posts: 31,482

"the elites are in control" - pure tautology!

07-26-2018 , 09:50 AM

#4627

Luckbox Inc

Carpal \'Tunnel

Join Date: Sep 2008 Posts: 61,109

Quote:

Originally Posted by iamnotawerewolf

"the elites are in control" - pure tautology!

How so?

07-26-2018 , 10:05 AM

#4628

metsandfinsfan

Carpal \'Tunnel

Join Date: Jan 2006 Posts: 158,893

"BECAUSE THERE IS NO WAY THE MEDIA WANTED THAT IDIOT DONALD TRUMP TO WIN IT'S UNPOSSIBLE!"

lol

07-26-2018 , 11:07 AM

#4629

Birdman10687

Not a Troll IRL

Join Date: Aug 2009 Posts: 39,990

Quote:

Originally Posted by metsandfinsfan

"BECAUSE THERE IS NO WAY THE MEDIA WANTED THAT IDIOT DONALD TRUMP TO WIN IT'S UNPOSSIBLE!"

lol

I’m confused what level of irony this is on

07-26-2018 , 11:23 AM

#4630

iamnotawerewolf

Carpal \'Tunnel

Join Date: Jul 2011 Posts: 31,482

Quote:

Originally Posted by Luckbox Inc

How so?

to be an elite is to be in control

to be in control is to be elite

07-26-2018 , 11:27 AM

#4631

iamnotawerewolf

Carpal \'Tunnel

Join Date: Jul 2011 Posts: 31,482

We may be able to construct a system that propels people with certain, desired qualities into the elite, but to imagine a system with no elitism is nearly absurd.

In the state of nature, there is not a power vacuum. There is a raw form of power that is generally unpleasant.

07-26-2018 , 11:28 AM

#4632

Birdman10687

Not a Troll IRL

Join Date: Aug 2009 Posts: 39,990

Quote:

Originally Posted by iamnotawerewolf

to be an elite is to be in control

to be in control is to be elite

I mostly don’t understand what point you are trying to make, but obviously the point of discussion is HOW much control the ruling class exerts

07-26-2018 , 11:31 AM

#4633

iamnotawerewolf

Carpal \'Tunnel

Join Date: Jul 2011 Posts: 31,482

It's so wild how conservatives use the phrase "the media" to mean non-conservative news/entertainment outlets.

Rush Limbaugh and Sean Hannity do it constantly, with no hint of irony.

07-26-2018 , 11:32 AM

#4634

pwnsall

CFBBPC

Join Date: Jun 2006 Posts: 65,637

i thought it was a clever little quip and enjoyed it

Ianaw tautology remark

07-26-2018 , 11:36 AM

#4635

iamnotawerewolf

Carpal \'Tunnel

Join Date: Jul 2011 Posts: 31,482

Quote:

Originally Posted by Birdman10687

I mostly don’t understand what point you are trying to make, but obviously the point of discussion is HOW much control the ruling class exerts

already you're falling into the tautological trap, though

the "ruling class" is defined by its level and/or extent of control

If you want to decentralize power, you can make a larger ruling class (see, eg, the bourgeois revolution over monarchy).

You can place term limits on the basis of their power (election terms for political empowerment, taxation terms for economic empowerment).

But to carve out room for a power vacuum is really merely to enable a competing power bloc. And it's historically not good to be caught between two competing power blocs.

07-26-2018 , 11:41 AM

#4636

Birdman10687

Not a Troll IRL

Join Date: Aug 2009 Posts: 39,990

Quote:

Originally Posted by iamnotawerewolf

pure ideology

07-26-2018 , 11:43 AM

#4637

iamnotawerewolf

Carpal \'Tunnel

Join Date: Jul 2011 Posts: 31,482

Thinking a bit more on it...

Quote:

If you want to decentralize power, you can make a larger ruling class

The thought of a proletarian revolution putatively accomplishes this. Vanguardism, of course, eradicates it.

Quote:

it's historically not good to be caught between two competing power blocs

Liberalism argues that it is actually great to have competing powers vying for your affection.

07-26-2018 , 11:44 AM

#4638

Birdman10687

Not a Troll IRL

Join Date: Aug 2009 Posts: 39,990

Quote:

Originally Posted by iamnotawerewolf

This is mostly just nonsense you believe for no good reason other than you were raised to believe that society cannot exist without a ruling class

07-26-2018 , 11:47 AM

#4639

Birdman10687

Not a Troll IRL

Join Date: Aug 2009 Posts: 39,990

Quote:

Originally Posted by iamnotawerewolf

Liberalism argues that it is actually great to have competing powers vying for your affection.

Yes. The philosophy created by the ruling class justifies the existence of the ruling class. That is not surprising at all. Would you really expect the philosophy of the ruling class to question the legitimacy of the rulers? This is the same thing that Mets falls victim to when he believing the propaganda that giving rich people more money will somehow help poor people

07-26-2018 , 11:49 AM

#4640

iamnotawerewolf

Carpal \'Tunnel

Join Date: Jul 2011 Posts: 31,482

Quote:

This is mostly just nonsense you believe for no good reason other than you were raised to believe that society cannot exist without a ruling class

How are rules determined? How are disputes resolved?

If an individual in a population is the smartest and the strongest, won't that person be able to secure a demographically disproportionate amount of influence/control?

Over time, is influence not cultivated, spread (vouched)?

07-26-2018 , 11:52 AM

#4641

iamnotawerewolf

Carpal \'Tunnel

Join Date: Jul 2011 Posts: 31,482

Quote:

Originally Posted by Birdman10687

just because it is self-serving, does not mean it is inaccurate

you have to go beyond cui bono, my dear

07-26-2018 , 11:52 AM

#4642

Birdman10687

Not a Troll IRL

Join Date: Aug 2009 Posts: 39,990

Quote:

Originally Posted by iamnotawerewolf

If an individual in a population is the smartest and the strongest, won't that person be able to secure a demographically disproportionate amount of influence/control?

How did they become the smartest/strongest?

07-26-2018 , 11:54 AM

#4643

Birdman10687

Not a Troll IRL

Join Date: Aug 2009 Posts: 39,990

Quote:

Originally Posted by iamnotawerewolf

just because it is self-serving, does not mean it is inaccurate

I just don’t need people to quote Hobbes or Locke at me and act like it’s some brilliant idea. It’s just random beliefs. Who cares?

07-26-2018 , 12:01 PM

#4644

iamnotawerewolf

Carpal \'Tunnel

Join Date: Jul 2011 Posts: 31,482

Quote:

Originally Posted by Birdman10687

I just don’t need people to quote Hobbes or Locke at me and act like it’s some brilliant idea. It’s just random beliefs. Who cares?

Unlike Engels, you mean.

07-26-2018 , 12:02 PM

#4645

iamnotawerewolf

Carpal \'Tunnel

Join Date: Jul 2011 Posts: 31,482

Quote:

Originally Posted by Birdman10687

How did they become the smartest/strongest?

random mutation, afaiu, with a little environmental assistance

also, isn't the question moot? we're here; let's deal with that, right?

07-26-2018 , 12:20 PM

#4646

Birdman10687

Not a Troll IRL

Join Date: Aug 2009 Posts: 39,990

Quote:

Originally Posted by iamnotawerewolf

Unlike Engels, you mean.

Yes, unlike Engels. Marx and Engels are not comparable to Locke and Hobbes

07-26-2018 , 12:23 PM

#4647

Birdman10687

Not a Troll IRL

Join Date: Aug 2009 Posts: 39,990

Quote:

Originally Posted by iamnotawerewolf

also, isn't the question moot? we're here; let's deal with that, right?

If you mean deal with the structures in place that provide some people advantages over others or elevate one group of people over another then yes. Let’s deal with that.

07-26-2018 , 12:51 PM

#4648

Luckbox Inc

Carpal \'Tunnel

Join Date: Sep 2008 Posts: 61,109

Quote:

Originally Posted by iamnotawerewolf

to be an elite is to be in control

to be in control is to be elite

Yes of course (to an extent). But when you have people believing in democracy calling attention to the ruling class serves a purpose.

07-26-2018 , 12:55 PM

#4649

Luckbox Inc

Carpal \'Tunnel

Join Date: Sep 2008 Posts: 61,109

Quote:

Originally Posted by iamnotawerewolf

random mutation, afaiu, with a little environmental assistance

also, isn't the question moot? we're here; let's deal with that, right?

The elites aren't the strongest/smartest. They are the benefactors of a system that has been set up for them by their forebearers.

07-26-2018 , 01:16 PM

#4650

iamnotawerewolf

Carpal \'Tunnel

Join Date: Jul 2011 Posts: 31,482

Quote:

Originally Posted by Birdman10687

If you mean deal with the structures in place that provide some people advantages over others or elevate one group of people over another then yes. Let’s deal with that.

Page 186 of 1316

First

86 136 166 176 181 182 183 184 185 186 187 188 189 190 191 196 206 236 286 386 686 1186

Last

Closed Thread Subscribe

...

Page 186 of 1316

First

86 136 166 176 181 182 183 184 185 186 187 188 189 190 191 196 206 236 286 386 686 1186

Last