POG Politics Thread - Page 14 - Puzzles and Other Games Forum

So right now in deep red districts you have a Tea Party candidate run against a moderate Republican in the primary and the winner of the primary faces no meaningful opposition in the general election. We reform everything and the same two candidates first knock out the token Democrat in the first round of the runoff and then face off head to head (edit: or in a more competitive district the Democrat makes it to the final vote but still loses to the more popular of the other two candidates). What's the difference, other than whether the Democrat is knocked out in the first round or the second? The same people get elected for the most part, and they still create the same alliance in Congress to get a majority.

in the reformed world, in the deep red districts you now get Democrats getting to have a say on which of the two republican candidates wins if their guy is eliminated R1 (and under a STV type system, they'd always get a say)

that's a pretty huge difference, and will naturally pull us towards centrism

02-21-2018 , 05:28 PM

#328

Bloobird

Carpal \'Tunnel

Join Date: May 2012 Posts: 24,250

wait damn dwetz got there first

02-21-2018 , 05:30 PM

#329

soah

Unexpected

Join Date: Jun 2004 Posts: 61,667

I'm assuming that people in the deep red districts who really care already vote in the Republican primaries. That's what my mom does.

If you want reform in that area, look at changing laws regarding who can vote in the primaries. That's something that has a much better chance of actually happening.

02-21-2018 , 05:31 PM

#330

pwnsall

CFBBPC

Join Date: Jun 2006 Posts: 65,613

As a centrist I approve of this centristism

02-21-2018 , 05:36 PM

#331

iamnotawerewolf

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Join Date: Jul 2011 Posts: 31,482

opening all of the primaries to everybody seems cool

02-21-2018 , 05:37 PM

#332

Bloobird

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Join Date: May 2012 Posts: 24,250

opening primary voting to all seems like a bit of a weird half-step towards a more sensible voting system, but hey, at least it's in the right direction

02-21-2018 , 05:40 PM

#333

DWetzel

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Join Date: Mar 2009 Posts: 42,349

Quote:

Originally Posted by soah

There's that too, but, again: in the present method, one must choose between expressing an opinion about one's side's own candidates, and that of the other side. The other way, one gets to do both.

02-21-2018 , 05:43 PM

#334

pwnsall

CFBBPC

Join Date: Jun 2006 Posts: 65,613

I assume some sort of statewide proportional representation would alleviate gerrymandering. Maybe scotus could force it in States somehow?

Seems not as necessary nationally though.

02-21-2018 , 05:59 PM

#335

soah

Unexpected

Join Date: Jun 2004 Posts: 61,667

Quote:

Originally Posted by DWetzel

There's that too, but, again: in the present method, one must choose between expressing an opinion about one's side's own candidates, and that of the other side. The other way, one gets to do both.

Sort of. It wouldn't always work out that way. And if you're supporting someone who doesn't have a prayer of winning then I'd argue that you're not accomplishing a whole lot under either system.

02-21-2018 , 06:04 PM

#336

kokiri

ffermwr moch

Join Date: Feb 2006 Posts: 52,227

Quote:

Originally Posted by amplify

BRB, off to make 1000 gifs from this.

02-21-2018 , 06:34 PM

#337

master3004

Revisionist Historian

Join Date: Mar 2010 Posts: 56,419

Quote:

Originally Posted by soah

I'll just offer this as food for thought for those that think that changing the election system to favor 3+ parties will fix all of the problems with politics:

Michael Bloomberg, an independently wealthy businessman, temporarily joined the GOP to run for mayor of New York and then dropped them like a hot potato and was reelected twice as an independent and then seriously considered running for president.

Mauricio Macri, an independently wealthy businessman, created a new political party to run for mayor of Buenos Aires, was reelected, and then successfully ran for president.

What's the actual difference between these events?

You can change the parties all you want but it will still be the literal same people running for office.

Right, the actual fix to our system needs to be in the amount of wealth needed to run. You need millions of dollars to ru n a successful campaign. A guy with great ideas and no ability to raise that kind of money can never get those ideas out.

02-21-2018 , 07:15 PM

#338

pwnsall

CFBBPC

Join Date: Jun 2006 Posts: 65,613

I think the real fix is it's probably not fixable

02-21-2018 , 07:22 PM

#339

amplify

Eternal Unknowable Mesmerizing

Join Date: Sep 2005 Posts: 78,255

the empty husk of society recapitulates the hollow shell of self

like ontogeny recapitulates phylogeny

02-21-2018 , 07:27 PM

#340

eyebooger

Join Date: May 2010 Posts: 58,683

Quote:

Originally Posted by amplify

the empty husk of society recapitulates the hollow shell of self

like ontogeny recapitulates phylogeny

02-22-2018 , 04:15 AM

#341

DiggertheDog

Pan Troglodytes

Join Date: Mar 2008 Posts: 57,791

I grew up always wanting to be a teacher..

Oh really.

Yeah, I always wanted to carry a gun.

Thanks Donnie Tinyhands.

02-22-2018 , 04:21 AM

#342

pwnsall

CFBBPC

Join Date: Jun 2006 Posts: 65,613

Hey digger is up! Seems like if we want to have people do anything before owning a gun it'd be pass some kind of class.

Also I assume coverage of shootings can possibly dangerously increase number of shootings.

02-22-2018 , 06:25 AM

#343

DiggertheDog

Pan Troglodytes

Join Date: Mar 2008 Posts: 57,791

Quote:

Originally Posted by master3004

In a peculiar sense Buckley vs Valeo was right. Which might be a strange thing for a leftist like me to say. But, the courts finding merely reflected the reality of democratic politics in capitalism. You need money to have political speech. It is not a far leap from there to say that money is speech and corporates have rights of speech.

02-22-2018 , 11:24 AM

#344

DWetzel

Carpal \'Tunnel

Join Date: Mar 2009 Posts: 42,349

Quote:

Originally Posted by soah

Sort of. It wouldn't always work out that way. And if you're supporting someone who doesn't have a prayer of winning then I'd argue that you're not accomplishing a whole lot under either system.

I'd argue that if you're supporting someone who doesn't have a prayer of winning, you probably shouldn't have much influence, under any system.

02-22-2018 , 01:17 PM

#345

amplify

Eternal Unknowable Mesmerizing

Join Date: Sep 2005 Posts: 78,255

pulled an ass muscle deadlifting
still the highlight of my day
now reading twitter CPAC rehash

dog of the day: floofy husky/corgi puppy

Last edited by amplify; 02-22-2018 at 01:26 PM.

02-23-2018 , 06:20 AM

#346

DiggertheDog

Pan Troglodytes

Join Date: Mar 2008 Posts: 57,791

Dante would have assigned a special place in hell for that head of the NRA. Good guy with a gun piffle.....

02-23-2018 , 06:39 AM

#347

kokiri

ffermwr moch

Join Date: Feb 2006 Posts: 52,227

That list of trump’s great guys in full:

- wife beater
- confirmed foreign agent at the heart of the White House
- gun runners in chief
- son, conspired with Russians.

Did I miss anyone?

02-23-2018 , 08:13 AM

#348

amplify

Eternal Unknowable Mesmerizing

Join Date: Sep 2005 Posts: 78,255

Nazis.

02-23-2018 , 11:08 AM

#349

iamnotawerewolf

Carpal \'Tunnel

Join Date: Jul 2011 Posts: 31,482

serial prisoner abuser

02-23-2018 , 11:19 AM

#350

DWetzel

Carpal \'Tunnel

Join Date: Mar 2009 Posts: 42,349

Quote:

Originally Posted by kokiri

That list of trump’s best people in full:

- wife beater
- confirmed foreign agent at the heart of the White House
- gun runners in chief
- son, conspired with Russians.

Did I miss anyone?

fyp, but good effort

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