POG Politics Thread - Page 571 - Puzzles and Other Games Forum

Yeah, I've always thought there was a huge difference between trump and historical fascists. He doesn't have the mental capacity to form any sort of high level ideology. It's his narcissism that creates the picture of a fascist. Or maybe fascism is some sort of ideological narcissism?

(un)fortunately, Trump doesn't have to invent the ideology, he just has to fit into it

from kokiri's article:

Quote:

He’s attacked the freedom of the press and the independence of the judiciary, he’s stoked up fear and hatred among his followers, he’s said he’d be happy if he was made President for life, he makes statements that can only be construed as racist and misogynist, he’s bitterly attacked people who have dared to criticize him, and his words have seemingly encouraged his supporters to use violence against his opponents.

11-15-2018 , 02:20 PM

#14253

iamnotawerewolf

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case in point:

Quote:

Originally Posted by Namath12

11-15-2018 , 03:36 PM

#14254

tappokone

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Quote:

Originally Posted by Birdman10687

This is definitely not an area I’m an expert in, but two things I remember from it was:

1) the circumstances surrounding the charges were hella sketchy

2) at one point Assange agreed to then himself in to the Swedish government on the condition they agree not to extradite him to the US. Sweden refused this condition and so he didn’t then himself in

Those two things together give me pause

Quote:

Originally Posted by filthyvermin

i also am no expert on assange. he might be an ahole. he might even be a rapist. but those rape allegations were hella sketchy, and they were dropped. def a non zero chance it was a usa operation.

You're not doing anything different from Republicans who disbelieved Blasey Ford.

11-15-2018 , 03:47 PM

#14255

filthyvermin

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were republicans saying kavenaugh might be a rapist and an ahole? i don't remember that.

was kavenaugh going to be tortured as a consequence? i don't remember that part either

11-15-2018 , 03:53 PM

#14256

iamnotawerewolf

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when you say assange would be "tortured", you mean "imprisoned", right?

11-15-2018 , 03:56 PM

#14257

Birdman10687

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I think the term is “enhanced interrogation” filthy

11-15-2018 , 03:58 PM

#14258

iamnotawerewolf

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this is not what exoneration looks like, btw:

Quote:

Swedish prosecutors have dropped their preliminary investigation into an allegation of rape against the WikiLeaks founder, Julian Assange, bringing an end to a seven-year legal standoff.

The decision was taken after prosecutors concluded that “at this point, all possibilities to conduct the investigation are exhausted”, Sweden’s director of public prosecutions, Marianne Ny, said on Friday.

“In order to proceed with the case, Julian Assange would have to be formally notified of the criminal suspicions against him. We cannot expect to receive assistance from Ecuador regarding this. Therefore the investigation is discontinued.

“If he, at a later date, makes himself available, I will be able to decide to resume the investigation immediately.”

11-15-2018 , 04:00 PM

#14259

iamnotawerewolf

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Quote:

Originally Posted by Birdman10687

I think the term is “enhanced interrogation” filthy

I don't see the US simply black-bagging the highest-profile ~journalist in the world.

I'm sure he will have no problems lawyering up and getting very close attention paid to his situation throughout his internment.

11-15-2018 , 04:06 PM

#14260

iamnotawerewolf

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Quote:

2) at one point Assange agreed to then himself in to the Swedish government on the condition they agree not to extradite him to the US. Sweden refused this condition and so he didn’t then himself in

per this BBC timeline, that's not what happened:

Quote:

January 2017
Outgoing US President Barack Obama commutes the prison sentence given to US army private Chelsea Manning for leaking classified documents to Wikileaks.

Mr Assange says he stands by his offer to agree to be extradited to the US if Mr Obama granted clemency to Manning.

Quote:

17 May 2017
Chelsea Manning is released from Fort Leavenworth military prison in Kansas.

[Assange does not surrender himself]

11-15-2018 , 04:09 PM

#14261

biggerboat

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Quote:

Originally Posted by iamnotawerewolf

Maybe we should ask the Saudis for some help.

11-15-2018 , 04:10 PM

#14262

iamnotawerewolf

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Quote:

28 March 2018
Ecuador cuts Mr Assange's internet connection to prevent him from interfering in other countries' affairs.

Quote:

16 October 2018
Mr Assange is given a set of house rules at the Ecuadorean embassy - which include cleaning his bathroom and taking better care of his cat.

He is warned that his feline companion could be confiscated and is also told to look after its "well-being, food and hygiene".

Ecuador also says it will partially restore Mr Assange's internet connection.

House Rules - human rights violation trigger warning:

Spoiler:

Last edited by iamnotawerewolf; 11-15-2018 at 04:17 PM. Reason: cit.

11-15-2018 , 04:18 PM

#14263

HerbieGRD

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http://https://www-m.cnn.com/2018/11/15/politics/democrats-maine-house-ranked-choice-jared-golden/index.html?r=https%3A%2F%2Fwww.cnn.com%2F
Someone mentioned ranke choice voting the other day as a possible way of making 3rd parties more viable and voting more fair - here’s an example from Maine

11-15-2018 , 04:43 PM

#14264

tappokone

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Quote:

Originally Posted by filthyvermin

were republicans saying kavenaugh might be a rapist and an ahole? i don't remember that.

A preamble like "I don't know whether it happened, but..." is standard operating procedure. Having covered his ass, the Republican Kavanaugh defender or the woke Assange supporter then proceeds to list reasons for why it's all very sketchy:

"It was a long time ago. Maybe she's mistaken."
"The charges were dropped."
"The Dems are exploiting this for partisan gain."
"The US wants him extradited."

A creative mind can come up with many ways to call allegations into question without outright saying they're lies.

(NB: The US would want to get its mittens on Assange regardless of the veracity of the accusations. That on its own doesn't make the accusations "hella sketchy".)

11-15-2018 , 04:56 PM

#14265

filthyvermin

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Quote:

Originally Posted by iamnotawerewolf

yeah, just like with chelsea manning.

and yes, torture. solitary confinement is torture

11-15-2018 , 05:19 PM

#14266

Birdman10687

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tapp, you are obviously reading things into my comment that aren’t there. But that’s par for the course for you, so feel free to carry on. I don’t plan on addressing it

11-15-2018 , 06:13 PM

#14267

iamnotawerewolf

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Quote:

Originally Posted by filthyvermin

yeah, just like with chelsea manning.

and yes, torture. solitary confinement is torture

I just read about why she was put into solitary (did not know before), and it is totally ****ed up.

That said, it was conduct beyond her conviction that landed her there, so I don't think it's a good example of evidence that Assange would also be destined for solitary, even assuming he is convicted by military tribunal (and I don't know that the military would have jurisdiction over his case to begin with).

11-15-2018 , 06:17 PM

#14268

iamnotawerewolf

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I agree that prolonged solitary confinement, when used as a punitive measure rather than an incapacitative one, is torture.

11-15-2018 , 09:06 PM

#14269

metsandfinsfan

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I think ranked choice ranking sounds good

11-16-2018 , 08:45 AM

#14270

tappokone

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Quote:

Originally Posted by Birdman10687

tapp, you are obviously reading things into my comment that aren’t there. But that’s par for the course for you, so feel free to carry on. I don’t plan on addressing it

What should I read into the comment below with regard to your stance on Assange's guilt?

Quote:

Originally Posted by Birdman10687

The thing in Sweden was very likely an op designed to have him arrested and extradighted to the US

(I should note that over a year and a half after accusations were made against Assange in Sweden, he was still free to enter the Ecuadorian embassy in the UK. If it was an op designed to get Assange into US custody, everyone who took part in the designing ought to be fired for incompetence.)

11-16-2018 , 11:02 AM

#14271

iamnotawerewolf

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Quote:

If it was an op designed to get Assange into US custody, everyone who took part in the designing ought to be fired for incompetence

wasn't Assange already in UK custody and granted bail?

it wasn't until Sweden tried to extradite him that he ducked into the Ecuadorian embassy, violating his bail condition

iirc

11-16-2018 , 12:26 PM

#14272

biggerboat

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Let this be a lesson for everyone. If you are a guest at someone's house, clean the bathroom and take care of your cat.

11-16-2018 , 04:17 PM

#14273

Booker Wolfbox

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You want MOAR Assange? You GET moar Assange!

11-16-2018 , 04:57 PM

#14274

filthyvermin

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"Imagine being a celebrity and of all the causes to fundraise for you choose a colonial army that just massacred hundreds of unarmed protesters. Hollywood just hosted a massive gala to raise $60 million for the Israeli Army. SHAME on Pharrell Williams, Ashton Kutcher, Gerard Butler for endorsing apartheid and war crimes" - abby martin