POG Politics Thread - Page 423 - Puzzles and Other Games Forum

If your standard for supporting a politician is that they are willing to light their career on fire to directly make the most extreme version of the argument you want made you aren’t going to find many/any who will do that and also have a chance to actually get elected to anything

09-26-2018 , 10:54 AM

#10552

HerbieGRD

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This particular strain of the argument about what electoral politics can accomplish reminds me a lot of the Republican position on government effectiveness. Their basic argument is that government can’t accomplish anything good because it doesn’t work well, then when elected they do everything in their power to ensure that government doesn’t work well, rinse repeat

09-26-2018 , 10:56 AM

#10553

DWetzel

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Herbie,

You should be aware that the "well you totally agree with me on X" for things you obviously don't agree with him on is a hallmark of Birdman's argumentative techniques; I'm sure that in time you'll find it as tiresome as the rest of us do, but until then know that, well, #ustoo*

*- with abject apologies to Crossnerd, please bear with the inadequacy of the analogy, I know it's a lot more serious, etc

09-26-2018 , 10:57 AM

#10554

Birdman10687

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Join Date: Aug 2009 Posts: 39,990

I’m not going to repost my argument Herbie. But this is exactly what I was saying about the logic of compromising your values to win elections. There is no end to what that logic demands of you. There is no line you can’t cross to win an election.

09-26-2018 , 10:59 AM

#10555

Birdman10687

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Join Date: Aug 2009 Posts: 39,990

If coming out hard an denouncing imperialism, colonialism, genocide, apartheid, etc amounts to “setting your career on fire” and losing an election are you seriously suggesting we should then submit ourselves to the beast that has been created by the bourogisie and say “ok fine you don’t have to denounce genocide if it means we can at least get slightly more affordable health care” I mean what the ****

09-26-2018 , 10:59 AM

#10556

HerbieGRD

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Quote:

Originally Posted by Birdman10687

Tell me what this means and how it is not submitting to the logic of electoral politics that only leads to disaster:

I don’t want to and probably can’t do this piecemeal, so I’ll save this for the big argument I mentioned this morning

09-26-2018 , 11:02 AM

#10557

HerbieGRD

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Quote:

Originally Posted by Birdman10687

If coming out hard an denouncing imperialism, colonialism, genocide, apartheid, etc amounts to “setting your career on fire” and losing an election are you seriously suggesting we should then submit ourselves to the beast that has been created by the bourogisie and say “ok fine you don’t have to denounce genocide today if it means we have no chance to change this injustice today but over time we can work towards it together but only if people who agree with us can get elected and actually make the rules

Lol if you change your post to the above it is closer to, but not the totality of, what I’m saying

09-26-2018 , 11:03 AM

#10558

Birdman10687

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Join Date: Aug 2009 Posts: 39,990

Quote:

Originally Posted by HerbieGRD

I don’t want to and probably can’t do this piecemeal, so I’ll save this for the big argument I mentioned this morning

Ok. Imo I have no problem if you disagree with me on stuff but it’s annoying to spend all that time writing a post, have no one engage with it and just go “meh yeah we agree” only to then completely undermine everything I said in the post. Just say you don’t agree with what I posted if you don’t agree. You clearly believe in compromising to win elections.

09-26-2018 , 11:05 AM

#10559

Birdman10687

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Join Date: Aug 2009 Posts: 39,990

Quote:

Originally Posted by HerbieGRD

Lol if you change your post to the above it is closer to, but not the totality of, what I’m saying

They don’t “agree with us” that’s the point.

09-26-2018 , 11:07 AM

#10560

Birdman10687

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People sit here and want us to do all kinds of things to improve the standard of living in America while not actually doing jack **** about imperialism and then wonder why we have ICE and why we have to lock up people in cages for trying to leave their countries and come to ours. Can people really not see the connection there?

09-26-2018 , 11:08 AM

#10561

HerbieGRD

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Quote:

Originally Posted by Birdman10687

Not compromising my views or opinions no. What I agreed with is, specifically, the idea that electing democrats is in and of itself insufficient and in no way leads to meaningful change and I agree with your reasons why that is true.

If you thought at any point that I agreed that electing democrats was pointless or that we should immediately or ever require total ideological homogeny with our own views from politicians in order to support them then you invented me saying that

09-26-2018 , 11:10 AM

#10562

HerbieGRD

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Quote:

Originally Posted by Birdman10687

This is why I wish you would wait for my longer post because I think you’re right about this and I think a lot of the left doesn’t get that but you are reading into my critiques of your stance the general left wing nationalist arguments that I think are destructive crap

09-26-2018 , 11:14 AM

#10563

Birdman10687

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Join Date: Aug 2009 Posts: 39,990

Quote:

Originally Posted by HerbieGRD

I said vote for democrats. But imo beyond voting we should remain ruthlessly critical of all politicians regardless of their party affiliation. Just because Obama is a democrat does not mean he should not be criticized as a war criminal but all of us, for instance. Doug Jones should be criticized as hard as anyone. He should not receive a free pass just to avoid electing a sexual predator

09-26-2018 , 11:20 AM

#10564

vaya

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I hate rapist presidents who nominate rapist Supreme Court justices who want to lock women in cages to prevent them getting an abortion, but what I REALLY hate is people who are opposed to all of that

09-26-2018 , 11:22 AM

#10565

eyebooger

Join Date: May 2010 Posts: 58,700

Speaking of sexual predators, holy **** at the latest Kavanaugh accuser.

09-26-2018 , 11:27 AM

#10566

iamnotawerewolf

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Quote:

Originally Posted by eyebooger

Speaking of sexual predators, holy **** at the latest Kavanaugh accuser.

are we up to four now?

09-26-2018 , 11:28 AM

#10567

HerbieGRD

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I can’t find a new allegation - can anyone source more than 2 directly?

09-26-2018 , 11:29 AM

#10568

HerbieGRD

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I am for the moment not counting Avenatti’s indirect and broad allegation unless there has been some substantive claims made that I’ve missed

09-26-2018 , 11:31 AM

#10569

DWetzel

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Avenatti's indirect and broad allegation is now a direct and specific allegation with a named accuser in a sworn affidavit that carries with it criminal liability if she perjured herself.

09-26-2018 , 11:33 AM

#10570

DWetzel

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That said, I think it's only three, but the fact that we're losing count kinda says it all.

09-26-2018 , 11:33 AM

#10571

HerbieGRD

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Quote:

Originally Posted by DWetzel

Avenatti's indirect and broad allegation is now a direct and specific allegation with a named accuser in a sworn affidavit that carries with it criminal liability if she perjured herself.

Link?

09-26-2018 , 11:35 AM

#10572

kokiri

ffermwr moch

Join Date: Feb 2006 Posts: 52,228

Quote:

Originally Posted by DWetzel

That said, I think it's only three, but the fact that we're losing count kinda says it all.

AIUI the president is allowed 19 mulligans, or is it 22, I can’t keep up.

Not sure what the going rate is for the SC.

09-26-2018 , 11:39 AM

#10573

master3004

Revisionist Historian

Join Date: Mar 2010 Posts: 56,419

Quote:

Originally Posted by HerbieGRD

Link?

Search Avenatti on Google. There's about 80

09-26-2018 , 11:40 AM

#10574

master3004

Revisionist Historian

Join Date: Mar 2010 Posts: 56,419

Not being a dick btw. Just suck at c/ping on phone

09-26-2018 , 11:40 AM

#10575

Slighted

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the new sworn statement is pretty damning.

eyewitness account of kav and judge at 10+ parties like the one described by Ford, kav getting hammered and verbally and physically aggressive with girls, groping/grinding, attempting to "spike" drinks..

eta- **** just got to the end. she says was a victim of a gang rape/ "train" where judge and kav were both present. she also shared this information with at least two other people shortly after the incident.

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