it is very America-friendly, however

I'm going to count you as in

If we are talking about unpleasantly bad players potentially driving players away from games they are in diceman isn't even in the top 10. Of course the ban is going to be solely on the merit of him having tried to circumvent the previous ban, which is obviously big. I read that his desire to come back and play normally's fairly genuine. I don't care too much if he's re-banned but some of the over-the-top witch-hunt mentality by people ITT's pretty undeserving

Meh

Blanket is a bit much

Teddy fine I guess. And mac maybe had too many chances

But I mean... All dice wants to do is play a silly online forum game right now. His life was worse without it. He asked nicely to come back and was denied. Then he took matters into his own hands which of course is wrong but in the big scheme of things do I care at this point?

He clearly isn't going to be rebanned. Just let him play. Clearly playing this game on this site is so vitally important to this guy's life that he won't take no for an answer.

SH was only ever banned in B&M, where people got banned for sneezing the wrong way. The rest of the site never took those bans seriously.

Yeah this is totally not what happened. POG loves to give people second, third, fourth, and fifth chances. After magic_gazz used up all those chances, he came back feeling entitled to more chances because everyone else keeps getting more chances, and he still showed no remorse at all for the things that had gotten him banned. Sure enough, he sneaks back in and gets modkilled for zero-posting and his attitude is still just, "welp, those sorta things just happen to everyone, can't help it." You think it will be different the next time something comes up IRL and honoring his ww commitments is inconvenient to him? He's made it clear what level of priority these games are, and how little he cares about how his actions affect other people.

Last year when he applied for reinstatement I would have supported Zelic over him. I'm 100% serious about that. People are allowed back all the time when there is good reason to believe that the underlying problem has been fixed. But that is not the case here.

He created the gimmick account immediately after being told that he was still unwelcome here. That's like the exact opposite of what you are citing here.

I don't think you need to be making implications about his quality of life, thats uncalled for imo

Leaving cash lying around unattended and trusting someone you only know from an online forum seems -EV whether or not they play poker imo

I'm just jealous, the guy lives in New Zealand

I can see what you're saying. I was just pointing out that coming back under gimmicks to prove good behavior is something not only allowed, but suggested by moderators in the past

Oooo me too! I want to go to there!

btw, just to clarify:

First he tried to sneak back in. He was found and banned.

Then he asked permission to come back. He was denied.

Then he tried to sneak back in again.


Him asking to be allowed to come back was not part of any attempt to do things the right way.

Unless I'm missing something very obvious, this should only be relevant if magic_gazz somehow knew that well named offered you to return under a gimmick.

Otherwise, the fact that well named offered you an anonymous return shouldn't be relevant, given the fact that even he admitted that it wasn't a great idea.
Furthermore, CPHoya explicitly stated that none of the mods ever offered magic_gazz to return on a gimmick.

I agree with the above partially, except that Hifi's gimmick and unbanning was public and I assume he saw that and is aware that it worked out well for Hifi. He wouldn't need to know about my personal communications with the mods to know that there is a precedent. It's the same precedent that was used when they told me I could come back on a gimmick and it was set long before me.

*** OFFICIAL RULING ***

These are the factors we considered:

1. He clearly evaded a ban.

2. He gets no credit for "time served" on the initial ban because it was a perma and he evaded it after asking to come back. That is, he was supposed to serve infinite time for breaking games, therefore "time served" is irrelevant.

3. After review of the allegation that he will break games by quitting on his team, the following conclusions were reached:

a. In 2 of his 5 wolf games as thediceman, he survived to day 5 for a win;

b. In 2 of his 5 wolf games as thediceman, he conceded on day 2 for a loss;

c. In both of those games, the concession was with the approval of his teammates, in one of them his other teammate being a peeked wolf and in the other the 2 remaining wolves being fairly clearly doomed (which is unusual, and we must remember that being "fairly clearly doomed" on day 2 does not mean you will remain so if you go HAM);

d. Both concessions are extremely weak and came before the game was actually mechanically over, but they do not violate any rule;

e. In Les Mis he vanished on day 5 after posting on the 4 previous days with his team in a strong position that he single-handedly sacrificed by 0-posting and being modkilled without requesting a sub; and

f. He continues to fail to request a sub when he allegedly becomes unavailable.

4. His previous behaviors undermine any desire to give him the benefit of the doubt about the Les Mis game, even if it appears objectively likely that he was indisposed on that game day. Even if he was, requesting a sub takes seconds. He didn't do that.

5. He has a habit of being indisposed on game days far too frequently for it to be acceptable. It appears that WW is a very low priority when he signs up for games, which is in some ways healthy but in other ways not acceptable because, as noted, his habit of ignoring his obligation to post threatens to break games or sabotage teams.

6. He was forthcoming when asked about his identity.

7. Some of his responses in this thread indicate a continuing failure to understand the communal impact of game-breaking and/or team-sabotaging behavior.

8. Most of his behavior as thediceman (22 games, 20 of which were vanilla or vanilla slow games) has been totally fine.

These are the other pertinent issues / facts:

1. Ban evasion is a problematic issue because it's so easy to do and so hard to figure out unless mods are actively combing for IP matches (and even that can be made difficult with various masks, etc.). If a poster is new and fine to deal with, it is unlikely that an IP match will be looked for and therefore unlikely that the evasion will be figured out. Because of this, there's little value in acting like a perma actually accomplishes a permanent ban of a poster. It's technologically more difficult than that. An IP ban is a possibility in some cases but that's generally not used in situations like this. It's for spammers, scammers and other true problem users on scales far beyond this.

2. This is a forum for the playing of games by people who like to play those games. Every time we remove a player from the player pool we shrink, fractionally, the available pool of players. On the flipside, every time we allow someone who is un-liked to stay we risk decreasing the player pool indirectly by finally exhausting the patience of those players.

3. If not for the remarkable research conducted by iversonian and domer, this probably wouldn't have come to light in the first place, which is to say that his posting was good enough that he wasn't a notorious problem user but not good enough to hide his identity.

The reasoning:

The Les Mis issue reveals a continuing near-total failure to comprehend how POG works and what the obligations of a player actually are. That was the original problem with magic_gazz and this redundant example of being so careless as to not even request a sub undermines most of the goodwill that thediceman has generated on that account. This is not a new issue: that was the crux of the problem in the WSoWW game that magic_gazz broke by 0-posting (as a villager) and, for that matter, the zero-posting habit was the issue in the Survivor game that caused magic_gazz to be perma'd. It is clear that the lesson is not getting through.

In addition, thediceman is now going to be a pariah who will discourage players from joining games he's in because other players can reasonably be concerned that he's going to quit on the game at a critical juncture. That is, of course, just a different way of stating the problem: it's supposed to be totally impossible that a player will just quit a game when the result hangs in the balance, and when it does happen a substitute should always be requested. With thediceman, it's not impossible and a sub won't even be thought of, unfortunately. It's as if thediceman can't be bothered.

In mitigation, there seems otherwise to be a flicker of improvement and the potential to be integrated successfully.

The ruling:

thediceman, and all his gimmicks (Ivan the Terrible, Red Reddington), are going to be banned for four months, until November 4, 2014 (three months for the evasion, 1 month for Les Mis). We consider this to be lenient given the recurrent issues and the original ban evasion. There are compelling arguments for continuing the perma.

thediceman, when you return, if you do, you are on a very short leash. During the layoff we expect you to reflect upon the damage you do to your team when you fail to post even though you could have, and the damage you do to the games you're in when you fail to request a substitute when you become unexpectedly unavailable. You need to consider your availability before you sign up. You do not get to stop posting out of convenience; you are obligated to continue playing unless it's actually impossible, in which situation you are required to let the mod know so that you can be replaced instead of ruining the game. This has been a recurrent problem for you.

Any example of that apathy in the future will trigger your automatic re-perma and I will probably lobby for an IP ban given your unique IP situation and the unlikelihood of your IP ban affecting anyone else (we will not discuss this aspect further).

If you evade the ban you're getting snap perma'd and I will again pursue an IP ban.

Upon his return, game moderators are empowered to deny thediceman entry into their games at their discretion.

Hoya for mod

Seems reasonable. Good work Hoya.

fine.

Dice you can add me on Skype (toptiertom) if you want suggestions on other places you can play.

Ivan the Terrible is not a gimmick created by thediceman fwiw, I created it for the gimmick game and it got randed to him. If he didn't change the password, perhaps it could be salvaged.

Ed Hoc >>> Hoya

good process mods

Yeah, I only praised Hoya, but good work by the other mods as well. But lead compliment for Hoya stands since it appears that he wrote that novella, and it was a pretty gripping read.

Mmk

lawyahs ghana lawyah

lol