Other than Well Named, who else are we about to "permanently" ban? - Page 28

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Other than Well Named, who else are we about to "permanently" ban?

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07-03-2014 , 02:14 PM

#676

LKJ

Smugly Contemptuous

Join Date: Aug 2003 Posts: 95,986

I mean they still allowed fruit of the poisonous tree in, but whatever, good job.

07-03-2014 , 02:15 PM

#677

Gadarene

bussing tammates

Join Date: Sep 2004 Posts: 83,007

Absolutely stellar reasoning and ruling.

07-03-2014 , 02:20 PM

#678

TheBrokenATM!

Carpal \'Tunnel

Join Date: Jul 2012 Posts: 32,727

Quote:

Originally Posted by UncleDynamite

I think that going back on a gimmick after you have been banned is unacceptable (and also undignified). There is absolutely no way thediceman deserves a second chance.
His request for forgiveness nothing more than a freeroll: either he gets forgiven (ship!) or he doesn't, and then he creates a gimmick anyway.

---
BATM: I didn't get the meaning of the first paragraph ofyour post, could you dumb it down for me pls?

I was mostly talking about you. How I'm a member in good standing and can't play ur games.
So I think dice man who was banned before will not be allowed to play in games were mods hold grudges or games from mods he ****ed up in before.
Te rest of games he will be fine.
I think is even worse to say if xxx plays in that game I'm out.
I was in that spot and I did my best to work it out thanks to hoyAIDS.
Now I don't think there's anyone who will say if BATM plays I'm out.
And I'm only banned from one mod games: YOU.
Lol

07-03-2014 , 02:20 PM

#679

ElliotR

Carpal \'Tunnel

Join Date: Sep 2005 Posts: 30,029

meh

07-03-2014 , 02:20 PM

#680

Hurp Durpington

Owlpert

Join Date: Apr 2012 Posts: 32,509

btw tom you probably should take a bit more care in reading and understanding the rules

I have zero doubt that you mean well and the modkills are simply misguided but they shouldn't happen, for your teammate's sake if nothing else.

07-03-2014 , 02:21 PM

#681

CPHoya

Warden of Taipan Island

Join Date: Jul 2006 Posts: 73,265

Quote:

Originally Posted by UncleDynamite

Ivan the Terrible is not a gimmick created by thediceman fwiw, I created it for the gimmick game and it got randed to him. If he didn't change the password, perhaps it could be salvaged.

Alright, I'm gonna unban it so you can salvage it then.

try it in 60 seconds, also lol

EDIT: done, go for it

07-03-2014 , 02:22 PM

#682

Gadarene

bussing tammates

Join Date: Sep 2004 Posts: 83,007

To be clear, I think the reasoning would have justified a longer ban as well. But the short leash allows time to both reflect (on his part) and reassess (on POG's).

07-03-2014 , 02:23 PM

#683

CPHoya

Warden of Taipan Island

Join Date: Jul 2006 Posts: 73,265

If people like the ruling Moocher and WN also deserve equal praise, everyone thought about this really hard.

If people hate it, treat it as my fault.

07-03-2014 , 02:23 PM

#684

soah

Unexpected

Join Date: Jun 2004 Posts: 61,667

btw if Leo is actually JG, he needs to be banned

JG is a serial scammer and on this site it is super easy to steal money from other users when you have a five-figure post count (as he demonstrated previously).

07-03-2014 , 02:23 PM

#685

UncleDynamite

Marginalia Satan

Join Date: Oct 2008 Posts: 28,898

Quote:

Originally Posted by Crossnerd

I agree with the above partially, except that Hifi's gimmick and unbanning was public and I assume he saw that and is aware that it worked out well for Hifi. He wouldn't need to know about my personal communications with the mods to know that there is a precedent. It's the same precedent that was used when they told me I could come back on a gimmick and it was set long before me.

Since the decision has just been made, this is a bit pointless, but still:
thediceman officially requested to get back, his request got posted in the grievance thread, most players were against him, and thus the mods denied his request. I know very little about how exactly HiFi got reinstated through her gimmick and later through her main account, but was there a similar poll?

thediceman clearly knew most people didn't want him to come back (again, I don't know how people felt about HiFI at the time) so I still don't believe that him sneaking back was justified.

I still don't see any reason not to ignore games that will accept thediceman.

07-03-2014 , 02:24 PM

#686

DonkDonkDonkDonk

Goose

Join Date: May 2009 Posts: 40,115

Seems fair

07-03-2014 , 02:25 PM

#687

Willi

Carpal \'Tunnel

Join Date: Jan 2009 Posts: 41,524

Quote:

Originally Posted by soah

Are you serious. Gambit said that Leo had some IRL trouble and gave him like 5k bucks for 6 months.

07-03-2014 , 02:26 PM

#688

UncleDynamite

Marginalia Satan

Join Date: Oct 2008 Posts: 28,898

Quote:

Originally Posted by CPHoya

Alright, I'm gonna unban it so you can salvage it then.

try it in 60 seconds, also lol

EDIT: done, go for it

Thanks!

07-03-2014 , 02:27 PM

#689

Top Tier Tom

Tom the Tom

Join Date: Oct 2013 Posts: 29,464

Quote:

Originally Posted by Hurp Durpington

Agreed

07-03-2014 , 02:27 PM

#690

gtpitch

making sick bumps

Join Date: Oct 2007 Posts: 33,706

Quote:

Originally Posted by soah

I think it was a joke - I didn't see a connection in an IP search but JG was pretty good about hiding it when he came back as karnel

07-03-2014 , 02:28 PM

#691

necro

Carpal \'Tunnel

Join Date: Mar 2011 Posts: 10,467

Quote:

Originally Posted by CPHoya

*** OFFICIAL RULING ***thediceman, when you return, if you do, you are on a very short leash. During the layoff we expect you to reflect upon the damage you do to your team when you fail to post even though you could have, and the damage you do to the games you're in when you fail to request a substitute when you become unexpectedly unavailable. You need to consider your availability before you sign up. You do not get to stop posting out of convenience; you are obligated to continue playing unless it's actually impossible, in which situation you are required to let the mod know so that you can be replaced instead of ruining the game. This has been a recurrent problem for you.

Any example of that apathy in the future will trigger your automatic re-perma and I will probably lobby for an IP ban given your unique IP situation and the unlikelihood of your IP ban affecting anyone else (we will not discuss this aspect further).

anyone else want to make a lolnewzealand joke

07-03-2014 , 02:28 PM

#692

LKJ

Smugly Contemptuous

Join Date: Aug 2003 Posts: 95,986

We could just ban Leo for being a Niners fan.

07-03-2014 , 02:29 PM

#693

Willi

Carpal \'Tunnel

Join Date: Jan 2009 Posts: 41,524

Quote:

Originally Posted by Top Tier Tom

Agreed

I actually agree. Just forget w/e flavor was in your role PM and maybe even delete your PM and do not edit/delete your posts and you will be more than fine.

07-03-2014 , 02:29 PM

#694

DonkDonkDonkDonk

Goose

Join Date: May 2009 Posts: 40,115

Ban Leo just in case, you can never be sure.

07-03-2014 , 02:29 PM

#695

soah

Unexpected

Join Date: Jun 2004 Posts: 61,667

Quote:

Originally Posted by gtpitch

I think it was a joke - I didn't see a connection in an IP search but JG was pretty good about hiding it when he came back as karnel

yeah I don't know if it was serious or not

I'd seen speculation of it at one point and did a bit of digging but found nothing solid to support it. The personalities align pretty well, though.

07-03-2014 , 02:30 PM

#696

necro

Carpal \'Tunnel

Join Date: Mar 2011 Posts: 10,467

Free leo

07-03-2014 , 02:30 PM

#697

gambit8888

Lack'n in some direction

Join Date: Aug 2008 Posts: 45,159

Lol Leo is Ed Furlong ldo

07-03-2014 , 02:30 PM

#698

UncleDynamite

Marginalia Satan

Join Date: Oct 2008 Posts: 28,898

Quote:

Originally Posted by TheBrokenATM!

I was mostly talking about you. How I'm a member in good standing and can't play ur games.

If I'm not mistaken, every game mod can prevent anyone to participate in games they run.
The rest is off-topic, and I don't wish to discuss it further in this thread.

07-03-2014 , 02:30 PM

#699

fnord_too

Carpal \'Tunnel

Join Date: May 2004 Posts: 29,116

Quote:

Originally Posted by Chilltown

Nah I don't do that as often as people think I do.

Someone make a game about the Mongols and I will join.

I've been looking for an opportunity to try out the Tsungasai role I've been working on ( I probably butchered the spelling there)

07-03-2014 , 02:30 PM

#700

Namath12

Carpal \'Tunnel

Join Date: Jan 2011 Posts: 55,849

Quote:

Originally Posted by CPHoya

*** OFFICIAL RULING ***

These are the factors we considered:

1. He clearly evaded a ban.

2. He gets no credit for "time served" on the initial ban because it was a perma and he evaded it after asking to come back. That is, he was supposed to serve infinite time for breaking games, therefore "time served" is irrelevant.

3. After review of the allegation that he will break games by quitting on his team, the following conclusions were reached:

a. In 2 of his 5 wolf games as thediceman, he survived to day 5 for a win;

b. In 2 of his 5 wolf games as thediceman, he conceded on day 2 for a loss;

c. In both of those games, the concession was with the approval of his teammates, in one of them his other teammate being a peeked wolf and in the other the 2 remaining wolves being fairly clearly doomed (which is unusual, and we must remember that being "fairly clearly doomed" on day 2 does not mean you will remain so if you go HAM);

d. Both concessions are extremely weak and came before the game was actually mechanically over, but they do not violate any rule;

e. In Les Mis he vanished on day 5 after posting on the 4 previous days with his team in a strong position that he single-handedly sacrificed by 0-posting and being modkilled without requesting a sub; and

f. He continues to fail to request a sub when he allegedly becomes unavailable.

4. His previous behaviors undermine any desire to give him the benefit of the doubt about the Les Mis game, even if it appears objectively likely that he was indisposed on that game day. Even if he was, requesting a sub takes seconds. He didn't do that.

5. He has a habit of being indisposed on game days far too frequently for it to be acceptable. It appears that WW is a very low priority when he signs up for games, which is in some ways healthy but in other ways not acceptable because, as noted, his habit of ignoring his obligation to post threatens to break games or sabotage teams.

6. He was forthcoming when asked about his identity.

7. Some of his responses in this thread indicate a continuing failure to understand the communal impact of game-breaking and/or team-sabotaging behavior.

8. Most of his behavior as thediceman (22 games, 20 of which were vanilla or vanilla slow games) has been totally fine.

These are the other pertinent issues / facts:

1. Ban evasion is a problematic issue because it's so easy to do and so hard to figure out unless mods are actively combing for IP matches (and even that can be made difficult with various masks, etc.). If a poster is new and fine to deal with, it is unlikely that an IP match will be looked for and therefore unlikely that the evasion will be figured out. Because of this, there's little value in acting like a perma actually accomplishes a permanent ban of a poster. It's technologically more difficult than that. An IP ban is a possibility in some cases but that's generally not used in situations like this. It's for spammers, scammers and other true problem users on scales far beyond this.

2. This is a forum for the playing of games by people who like to play those games. Every time we remove a player from the player pool we shrink, fractionally, the available pool of players. On the flipside, every time we allow someone who is un-liked to stay we risk decreasing the player pool indirectly by finally exhausting the patience of those players.

3. If not for the remarkable research conducted by iversonian and domer, this probably wouldn't have come to light in the first place, which is to say that his posting was good enough that he wasn't a notorious problem user but not good enough to hide his identity.

The reasoning:

The Les Mis issue reveals a continuing near-total failure to comprehend how POG works and what the obligations of a player actually are. That was the original problem with magic_gazz and this redundant example of being so careless as to not even request a sub undermines most of the goodwill that thediceman has generated on that account. This is not a new issue: that was the crux of the problem in the WSoWW game that magic_gazz broke by 0-posting (as a villager) and, for that matter, the zero-posting habit was the issue in the Survivor game that caused magic_gazz to be perma'd. It is clear that the lesson is not getting through.

In addition, thediceman is now going to be a pariah who will discourage players from joining games he's in because other players can reasonably be concerned that he's going to quit on the game at a critical juncture. That is, of course, just a different way of stating the problem: it's supposed to be totally impossible that a player will just quit a game when the result hangs in the balance, and when it does happen a substitute should always be requested. With thediceman, it's not impossible and a sub won't even be thought of, unfortunately. It's as if thediceman can't be bothered.

In mitigation, there seems otherwise to be a flicker of improvement and the potential to be integrated successfully.

The ruling:

thediceman, and all his gimmicks (Ivan the Terrible, Red Reddington), are going to be banned for four months, until November 4, 2014 (three months for the evasion, 1 month for Les Mis). We consider this to be lenient given the recurrent issues and the original ban evasion. There are compelling arguments for continuing the perma.

thediceman, when you return, if you do, you are on a very short leash. During the layoff we expect you to reflect upon the damage you do to your team when you fail to post even though you could have, and the damage you do to the games you're in when you fail to request a substitute when you become unexpectedly unavailable. You need to consider your availability before you sign up. You do not get to stop posting out of convenience; you are obligated to continue playing unless it's actually impossible, in which situation you are required to let the mod know so that you can be replaced instead of ruining the game. This has been a recurrent problem for you.

Any example of that apathy in the future will trigger your automatic re-perma and I will probably lobby for an IP ban given your unique IP situation and the unlikelihood of your IP ban affecting anyone else (we will not discuss this aspect further).

If you evade the werewolf ban you're getting snap perma'd and I will again pursue an IP ban.

Upon his return, game moderators are empowered to deny thediceman entry into their games at their discretion.

I really think we should discuss this some more

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