I believe that this topic has come up a lot. Excessive subs in a WW game. I think we have come to a spot where something just has to be done about the situation though.

I realize that WW is just a game that is played on an internet forum. The things that happen in a game or who won really don't mean anything in the real world. But - to some - winning the game - or at least having a fair game - is what it is all about. I'm definitely one of those people.

The bizarre thing is that the rash of subs lately is seemingly almost an angleshoot. I remember when I started playing WW - if someone subbed out then they were almost always a villager. But its now nearly the complete opposite. Subs from d1 or d2 are > RAND to be a wolf.

Part of what may lead to this is the length of time signup threads are up - which we'll work on.

So what to do?

That's what this thread is about. I want open discussion on what to do. There are a few options:

1) No subs except in extreme circumstances (ie. stay in the hospital, death in the family, loss of power / computer etc). These exceptions would be in the game mods discretion. All other sub requests after reading a role PM would result in a modkill.

2) Create a "WW sub sticky" which mods would update. This sticky would track number of games that someone has subbed out from. An excessive # would result in a ban from long games for x amount of days. For example 3 requested subs in 60 days results in a 30 day ban etc etc.


Obviously we are open to other ideas as these games effect more than just the 3 mods of course.


tl;dr Cliffs:

1) there are a lot of subs
2) Its time to do something
3) what to do?

yes

has anyone heard from caedus? he subbed out of 2 games whitch is very unlike him, imo..

i don't think I have ever subbed out of a long game in 4 years, *shrug*

normal game hours should be included in sign up threads as i subbed out of a game recently because they didnt work with my work schedule

Well I can tell you that there are 2 games which recently finished which had a combined 3 wolves subbed out in the first 2 days.

bans after 2 subbings in a small time period

Why not just have games with a "no subbing" disclaimer - you sub out or have bad participation you are banned for 2 weeks from 2p2. seems like a fair solution for the more active

I think maybe this, but you're allowed 1 sub per 6 games or something. more than that and 2 month ban.

gtpitch, don't you think this is just random varience. (In terms of wolf/village sub ratio)

I mean, I believe it is a problem, but quite a lame problem. There should definitely be a warning if it appears the person is subbing out just to be lame.

1. Limit time of signup thread
2. Limit numbers in games, and create a sub list
3. Mods need to stand up and deny people that require a sub
4. (Goes with #2) Don't go first come first serve, people that don't participate may get put on the sub list
5. I strongly disagree with an outright ban on playing based on presence in the list, I suggest putting up the info and leaving it to mod discretion
6. Stop begging for people in games, constantly bumping signup lists, and trying to get (50/60/80/100/whatever) players in a game, to the point where people signup because
a) Peer pressure
b) They don't want to "miss out" on an "epic" game
7. A consequence of the actions described in 6 is increased burnout of players involved in the huge game, which then negatively effects other games they're signed up for. Even if they don't get subbed, their lack of/lower participation can drag the game down, leading others to not care and get subbed.

* "Mod" in this post refers to game mods
** Bannings for actions in a WW game that doesn't violate the TOS is lame

Im glad my bitching has helped get this thread started finally.

gtp 4 mod

Considering this isn't just my thoughts - I'd say no.

plan to lose a few players to afk the first few days and have an event planned, like an event for up to 5 players who are 2 inactive first 3 days

and if no one inactive it can be dropped or altered

Other than #5 - I agree.

well considering that you own (mod?) the internet poker forum, its kind of ironic that I get to call you a rigtard

*

edit / gtpitch

Not a mod of internet poker - sorry.

That shouldn't be the plan though - that's the point.

If you sign up for a game then you should play the game. The game mod shouldn't have to alter the game in some way to force you to play.

If you don't want to play - then don't sign up.

no

It is partially because people don't want to be wolves and partially because people sign up without thinking about the extra time needed to play wolf.

I'd say if you look at all the subs over the last 6 months ~%50 of them will be wolves.

Which is >>>>rand.

I agree

but if mod and the other players are being punished for the other fickle signups mod might as well built in an optional/adjustable mechanism that lets them keep game balanced if they don't like how it is starting off and/or can't find subs, don't want to resub early kills etc

or maybe the mechanism could be someone coming back as another player, who knows

Also -

Since zurvan brought it up - bans from 2p2 as a result from subbing out of a WW game will almost certainly not happen.

Bans from WW games - well that can.

A sub hurts the wolf team more. I don't think it happens more.

The game where 2 wolves did: I was one, my last post in the signup thread said to give my spot to a late signup person. The mod PM'd me and asked if I was still in, I replied as soon as I saw that: the work project that was supposed to be done before the game started wasn't, and it was a problem. I want to be a wolf, for a bunch of reasons. The other one was Caedus, who enjoys wolfing for sure. He hasn't posted on 2+2 since he signed up -- I'm sure he's not trying to duck out of being a wolf. Now it has become a situation where people who didn't want to wolf messed up the game. That's just not true. I would not have been able to play as seer or villager either.

I've been mod for 6 games recently. Only villager subs as I remember.

In the current Zelda game so far we have 4 subs / 48 players:
1 dead seer
1 dead villager
1 dead wolf
1 tbd

I'm certainly not saying that everyone is doing it maliciously.

read very little

last 2 times i subbed i was a wolf

No one is ever allowed to sub out of one game and not another.

A stickied list of WW players and number of subs and/or modkills is kept. Game mods may deny entry to any game they are modding.

Failure to post for an entire game day always results in a modkill, and never results in a sub. This way POG will be more likely to self-patrol.

***

On a more personal note, this new habit of subbing out as a wolf is absurd. Anyone who does so is revealing that:

1) You do not think wolfing is part of the game of WW.
2) You also fail to put in adequate time as a villager (hint: wolfing is EASIER if you aren't too lazy to take a couple notes and seerhunt suring the say).
3) You do not respect that this is a community based upon mutual willingness to expend free time on games we mutually enjoy. When you sub out due to dissatisfaction with your role, you fail in your role as a trusted member of the club that is necessary to our mutual enjoyment of WW.
4) You are alarmingly selfish.
5) You are not welcome in any game I mod in the future.

CPH just vaulted himself up my favorite POGgers list.

I agree with this 100%