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The future of Ms POG The future of Ms POG

02-04-2017 , 09:29 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Crossnerd
I'm not threatening to quit. I'm stating as fact that I will no longer post in a place where competitions like this are held. That is something I can control, and I have the right to exercise that control. I'm not holding it over anyone's head, and I haven't asked to control anything else. You all have the right to control how you react to all the women leaving. Nobody can make anybody do anything.

I suggested the conditions under which I would be comfortable with such a competition, and it was mocked. I made no further ado in the nomination thread.
Fair enough.

Quote:
I remain aware that your impression of my posts is likely colored by your impression of me, but, thankfully, I'm no longer the only woman in this thread who shares my view.
I do not think this is true in this case; Adam33, a poster that I like and respect, offered an opinion that is similar to yours.
02-04-2017 , 09:44 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Crossnerd
I never ran the game. I did make a nomination thread once. I wish I hadn't. I wish I'd never participated in any of these.

I wish I'd never watched a beauty pageant. Or America's Next Top Model. I wish I'd never read Cosmo, or any of those articles on the DailyMail about how to show more sideboob like Khloe. I wish I'd never had a VIP Sephora card, and I wish I'd never wasted my hard earned money on overpriced uncomfortable lingerie from Victoria's Secret.

There are a lot of things I wish I hadn't done.

I'm awake now, and I'm not overreacting.


Quote:
Originally Posted by DiggertheDog
I will support whatever the women want in the thread.
This. I have no strong feelings on the matter, which is to say that I don't personally feel that there is anything morally or politically wrong with how at least I personally perceive and approach these Miss POG things, but that I can certainly understand how women would feel uncomfortable or objectified and if they do, then I have no problem seeing these contests stop.
02-04-2017 , 09:47 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by filthyvermin
come on people! what the hell? almost everyone agrees it's objectifying women. we have two women posting in the thread that they don't like it. that alone should be enough.
it's enough for me

there are plenty of places on the internet and even on 2p2 to have these kinds of threads

we don't need one in pog

I'm generally in favor of maximum freedom and minimum restrictions, but this isn't a question of what should be legal in society

profanity is already blocked here and miss pog is definitely more offensive than profanity

if I ran a sports magazine, it wouldn't have a swimsuit issue

if I ran a bar, it wouldn't have wet t-shirt contests

to the extent I have a say on this subforum, I don't want to have the miss pog thing

earlier in this thread I said people can just not click on threads they're not interested in. that makes sense for things that are just stupid like penultimate post but it's different if it makes a hostile environment for people

I have a thick skin and I'm not a woman so I can be a little insensitive sometimes

and crossnerd, when I nominated kruze's dog, I was making fun of the miss pog contest, not anything you said. the only thing you posted that I disagreed with was saying we should rate women based on other criteria. I don't think we need to be rating women at all
02-04-2017 , 10:01 AM
Don't forget to outlaw the totp tradition in the Pub too, while y'all are scrubbing pog clean.
02-04-2017 , 10:07 AM
just wanted to say i lol'd when reading sun tzu's above post next to his old avatar, refreshed, and it's gone

carry on
02-04-2017 , 10:11 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by UncleDynamite
I do not think this is true in this case; Adam33, a poster that I like and respect, offered an opinion that is similar to yours.
Then why is it assumed on your part that adam holds the opinion altruistically while I hold mine merely to exert my will over the forum? This is a rhetorical question.

You've made it a point here to say that you don't care one way or another if this competition runs, but you've implied abuse on MB's part and suspicion of mine in the manner in which we raise the issue.

You've also made it a point, as you do in each and every one of our encounters, to mention again your own personal feelings regarding me. If you don't mean for this to color your opinion, and mine of yours, might I suggest you stop bringing it up. Especially since, in an instance like this, your personal feelings on the messengers don't matter in the slightest.
02-04-2017 , 10:22 AM
Monkey wasnt one of your old avatars a girl dancing in her underwear?
02-04-2017 , 10:22 AM
Quote:
Then why is it assumed on your part that adam holds the opinion altruistically while I hold mine merely to exert my will over the forum? This is a rhetorical question.
Here's a non-rhetorical answer: that is because Adam did not say he would quit the forum if this did not stop.

Quote:
You've made it a point here to say that you don't care one way or another if this competition runs, but you've implied abuse on MB's part and suspicion of mine in the manner in which we raise the issue.
Yes. Do you have a point? For example, I am not fond of beef and try to avoid eating it. If a regulation is passed that no longer allows beef to be sold in supermarkets, I am not going to be happy.

Anyway, my biggest, and, in fact, only issue is MB creating the thread; your posts in this thread are not an issue to me. I just found some of them strange, but perhaps I should have ignored your posts.
02-04-2017 , 10:24 AM
Didn't realize this thread was up. I don't have any opinions either way. Will respect whatever everyone decides.

Edit; I guess I'll add that POG being what it is, I never saw this as more than just a contest. Never intended to objectify women etc, just treated it as any other draft/competition etc. If people want to change up the nature of the contest, remove it entirely, proceed with new rules etc. doesn't bother me.
02-04-2017 , 10:34 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by insanity31
just wanted to say i lol'd when reading sun tzu's above post next to his old avatar, refreshed, and it's gone

carry on
Quote:
Originally Posted by SuqAta8
Monkey wasnt one of your old avatars a girl dancing in her underwear?
heh
02-04-2017 , 10:35 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by UncleDynamite
Here's a non-rhetorical answer: that is because Adam did not say he would quit the forum if this did not stop.
There's an obvious and logical reason as to why that is.

It should go without saying that casting suspicion on a woman's motivations regarding issues like this is hardly a new trick, and not at all a breach of my expectations.

And my point, you asked if I had one, was that your attacks are weak sauce, and you should be embarrassed at how transparent they are. VR nailed that bit as well.
02-04-2017 , 10:41 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Crossnerd
There's an obvious and logical reason as to why that is.
Well, you did say that it was a concern for the entire community.

Quote:
And my point, you asked if I had one, was that your attacks are weak sauce, and you should be embarrassed at how transparent they are. VR nailed that bit as well.
I am going to take this as a compliment.
02-04-2017 , 10:46 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Puzzles
I've always considered Ms POG to be not a game and not a puzzle, just a piece of POG furniture that runs every year.
This would seem like an obvious point against it remaining, especially given that it's essentially a duplicate of something that already exists in OOT.

Quote:
I feel I can safely guess there have been zero people that have developed any type of disorder from Ms POG.
First of all, you're not in a position to make that claim, and second, that's analogous to saying that no one has ever died from smoking one cigarette.

Quote:
If you don't like it, use your energy to go fight Maxim Hot 100 or other contests that actually have an audience probably more worthy of the protection you are trying to provide.
It should be obvious why someone would make an effort to change something that she has a degree of influence over rather than something that she does not.
02-04-2017 , 10:46 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by UncleDynamite
Well, you did say that it was a concern for the entire community.
Part of me thinks you're just still upset that you won't be able to run another game where all the female roles are prostitutes..
02-04-2017 , 10:51 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Crossnerd
Part of me thinks you're just still upset that you won't be able to run another game where all the female roles are prostitutes..
So much for the "lack of malice" you were talking about earlier.
Anyway, you are going a bit off-topic with this, but as long as the roleset is good and the game fills, idc hpw many prostitutes are in the actual game.
02-04-2017 , 10:54 AM
I didn't say that with malice. I really do think that. If you'd stop constantly bringing up that you dislike me, there'd be no malice at all. I am neutral to you.

Believe it or not, that game running so recently (the one where all the women characters were whores with limited abilities) to Miss Pog running now did, in fact, compound my feelings of wanting to leave Pog.

If you'd excuse my saying so, you're largely responsible for derailing this thread IMHO. If you don't have any other opinions on whether or not the contest runs, maybe you'd make space for those do.
02-04-2017 , 11:03 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Crossnerd
I didn't say that with malice. I really do think that. If you'd stop constantly bringing up that you dislike me, there'd be no malice at all. I am neutral to you.
I mean, you just said that you think I would wish to run more games in which all the female characters were prostitutes, and you are clearly implying that I'd would mostly like to do it because of that (you would not have brought it up otherwise).

Quote:
Believe it or not, that game running so recently (the one where all the women characters were whores with limited abilities) to Miss Pog running now did, in fact, compound my feelings of wanting to leave Pog.

If you'd excuse my saying so, you're largely responsible for derailing this thread IMHO. If you don't have any other opinions on whether or not the contest runs, maybe you'd make space for those do.
SMH at largely responsible but okay, I don't have much more to say anyway.

Last edited by UncleDynamite; 02-04-2017 at 11:26 AM.
02-04-2017 , 11:04 AM
I have no high ground here.
02-04-2017 , 11:20 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by UncleDynamite
There is no need for any policy. If the people who do not like Ms POG for what it currently is or hate it for what they think it stands for, they should convince active posters not to participate. This is what they've been doing, and that is the right way. You are doing this the wrong way.
This isn't reddit. People can't just downvote posts they don't like. If a small number of users, even 1, decide they want a thread to stay on the front page, it stays on the front page, without mod intervention. The argument that mods shouldn't intervene makes no sense.

I think the whole Ms POG concept is pretty lame. I'd be happy with it becoming history. I don't think the survival of this forum depends on it, and I value people feeling welcomed over a pointless circlejerk.
02-04-2017 , 11:53 AM
I think this, as with many other things in life, is as toxic and harmful to women as the people and the intent behind it.

There are likely a number of well meaning, reasoned, and rounded people behind some of these posters that truly just want to enjoy the beauty of a particular subset of life.

And then there are possibly (likely?) some low, childish, or baseless people who want to objectify women and do it in a public way to feel like they are better than these women and that they are part of a group of people who feel the same way.

Should we get rid of it? This should only be judged based on the true intent of the people being a part of it. You can take literally anything in this world and make it terrible and degrading if that's what you want it to be. But getting rid of something because it 'could be' degrading is the wrong way to go about things and will generally lead to a boring, lifeless, rather vanilla existence.

If it stays, should it include other aspects other than 'half naked woman'? Yes, because a classically average looking but successful/accomplished/with personality/etc. woman is far more attractive than classically hot woman who has no other redeeming qualities.
02-04-2017 , 12:18 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by filthyvermin
come on people! what the hell? almost everyone agrees it's objectifying women. we have two women posting in the thread that they don't like it. that alone should be enough.

and several men don't like it either.

i used to love miss pog. i feel stupid for being so yuck.

before MB made this thread, i said i was gonna post a poll to vote on if we should have a miss pog. MB said he wanted to have a discussion first. but the more i think about it, the more i think a poll is unnecessary. there are some things that shouldn't be majority rules. this is one of those things.

i feel very strongly about this
I am confused. Haven't you already nominated several women? That seems inconsistent with your position in this thread.
02-04-2017 , 12:55 PM
domer basically nailed it right off, not much else to say

MB and domer hate each other though
02-04-2017 , 01:42 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by insanity31
just wanted to say i lol'd when reading sun tzu's above post next to his old avatar, refreshed, and it's gone

carry on
02-04-2017 , 02:15 PM
I vote for not having Miss POG
02-04-2017 , 02:20 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by pwnsall
domer basically nailed it right off, not much else to say
I agree, very well put there by domer.

      
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