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The future of Ms POG The future of Ms POG

02-04-2017 , 11:30 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by insanity31
The ~most active poster exhibiting this behavior in Ms. POGs that I've been around for is filthyvermin, so who knows, things may change this year now that he's seen the light?
Seeing VR and Cross take such strong stances on an issue and how offensive they find it and it is completely reasonable for filthy to reassess his past behavior and adjust. That is what smart people do when they see heart felt valid opinions explained.
02-04-2017 , 11:31 PM
the arguments about the washington redskins name is almost the same as the arguments about miss pog

"you shouldn't be offended"

"well, we are offended"
02-04-2017 , 11:32 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by insanity31
The ~most active poster exhibiting this behavior in Ms. POGs that I've been around for is filthyvermin, so who knows, things may change this year now that he's seen the light?
02-04-2017 , 11:33 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Crossnerd
Suq, you are to me right now what anti-gay marriage people are to you.

I assume you think you should have the right to marry whomever you choose, in all 50 states? And I assume its frustrating to you to have to listen to straight people dismiss your real concerns because they can't see past their own privilege.

So here I think I have the right to live in a world where women aren't sexually objectified in the manner of Miss Pog. I didn't ask to impose a ban, I asked for the minimalist of changes- that the women in the contest be looked at as people. I'm sure there have been times in your life you wished others looked at you more as a person, and in this is where I feel like our kinship should lie.

I'm sorry to "go there", but its how I feel.
I mean ya. Ive left bars crying before because people who i thought were my friends, once realizing i recently broke up with my partner, tried to hook up with me. Objectification sucks. But im not so naiive as to dismiss the times where ive gone to bars and taken my shirt off because i wanted attention. Idk. I should prob stop for the night. Color me ambivalent for tonight
02-04-2017 , 11:34 PM
In general I don't really understand what the word "offense" keeps getting brought into this conversation at all. I'm not sure I have seen one person who has advocated for ending Miss POG characterize their views as "offense". I think the activity is sexist and I do not think POG as a community is sexist, or if it is we should work to make it less so. Therefore it does not belong here.
02-04-2017 , 11:35 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by SuqAta8
I mean ya. Ive left bars crying before because people who i thought were my friends, once realizing i recently broke up with my partner, tried to hook up with me. Objectification sucks. But im not so naiive as to dismiss the times where ive gone to bars and taken my shirt off because i wanted attention. Idk. I should prob stop for the night. Color me ambivalent for tonight
So it sounds like you agree objectification is bad and you understand why women might feel alienated in this community when such objectification occurs. You have left bars crying because of it. So maybe lets not let a similar outcome happen on POG?
02-04-2017 , 11:41 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by SuqAta8
I mean ya. Ive left bars crying before because people who i thought were my friends, once realizing i recently broke up with my partner, tried to hook up with me. Objectification sucks. But im not so naiive as to dismiss the times where ive gone to bars and taken my shirt off because i wanted attention. Idk. I should prob stop for the night. Color me ambivalent for tonight
i used to be objectified too, not so much these days now that i'm old and gained a lot of weight. sometimes it's a huge thrill and a ton of fun. sometimes it feels awful. i think we all get that.

i'd imagine that being objectified is a different experience for everyone, and i'd guess there is a difference between being objectified as a straight man, and as a gay man, and as a straight woman, and as a gay woman, and all the different variations.
02-04-2017 , 11:41 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by SuqAta8
I mean ya. Ive left bars crying before because people who i thought were my friends, once realizing i recently broke up with my partner, tried to hook up with me. Objectification sucks. But im not so naiive as to dismiss the times where ive gone to bars and taken my shirt off because i wanted attention. Idk. I should prob stop for the night. Color me ambivalent for tonight
Self objectification is not the same as being systemically objectified by others. I'm still working through my thoughts and feelings on women who use self objectification as a means of empowerment, but to be honest I lean towards being pro.

The main difference between you being objectified and you objectifying yourself is the way it feels. One makes you feel like ****, and the other feels great. I'm trying to make you understand that women come from a place of historically, and presently in many ways, having that choice made for us.

I'm really asking for you to be my ally in this. Pog is the bar VR and I are figuratively leaving crying. Our struggles are very different, admittedly, but they're the same in that we're just asking for our own agency, dignity, and respect.. same as you.
02-04-2017 , 11:43 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Crossnerd
Ok, JMurder, but there are exceptions to how much a person is expected to tolerate with regard to others' opinions. I assume you would not expect a black person to listen to a group of white people dismiss their issues with racism. Or a group of straight people telling Suq, for example, that he should suck it up and take civil unions its better than nothing.

Why am I expected to take a generous view here?

For my part, I think I've maintained extraordinary patience in the face of some fantastically galling assertions made itt.
My point is that progress takes time, & things that are considered obviously racist or homophobic now, weren't considered that way 5 years ago.

People grow & develop in different ways, but very few people take well to being called names because they disagree with something.

Some people clearly are a certain way, but you've also jumped to paint rational critiques in a negative light in a dismissive manner. People don't take well to "your opinion is stupid & racist/sexist/bigoted." That's part of how this whole presidential thing happened...

It's obviously hard when one has a personal connection to an argument to remain 100% rational on an issue (which is also why I suggested monkey not be the arbiter of discipline in the thread).

Quote:
Originally Posted by Birdman10687
Sure. What I should probably do, if I have time tomorrow maybe, is go through the thread and quote all the posts that actually make an argument for why stopping Miss POG is a bad idea. Then we can operate from those instead of all these half assed ad hominem argument.
Sure, if you feel strongly about the issue & would like to sway the non-intractible, that would be best bet.
02-04-2017 , 11:43 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Birdman10687
So it sounds like you agree objectification is bad and you understand why women might feel alienated in this community when such objectification occurs. You have left bars crying because of it. So maybe lets not let a similar outcome happen on POG?
Experiencing it personally is not comparable to discussing with your cohorts what celebrities you find attractive.

But i understand your point. Again, drunk and ambivalent right now
02-04-2017 , 11:45 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Crossnerd
Self objectification is not the same as being systemically objectified by others. I'm still working through my thoughts and feelings on women who use self objectification as a means of empowerment, but to be honest I lean towards being pro.

The main difference between you being objectified and you objectifying yourself is the way it feels. One makes you feel like ****, and the other feels great. I'm trying to make you understand that women come from a place of historically, and presently in many ways, having that choice made for us.

I'm really asking for you to be my ally in this. Pog is the bar VR and I are figuratively leaving crying. Our struggles are very different, admittedly, but they're the same in that we're just asking for our own agency, dignity, and respect.. same as you.
Understood. Ill come to this tomorrow
02-04-2017 , 11:48 PM
JMurder, progress happens because people get called out on their bull****. I have taken copious personal attacks in this thread. I haven't called anybody names. Yes, I think a lot of the things people have said in this thread are stupid and sexist. You are beyond the pale focusing on my position in all this.

**** this place. I'm going to take my talents to South Beach.
02-04-2017 , 11:58 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Crossnerd
JMurder, progress happens because people get called out on their bull****. I have taken copious personal attacks in this thread. I haven't called anybody names. Yes, I think a lot of the things people have said in this thread are stupid and sexist. You are beyond the pale focusing on my position in all this.

**** this place. I'm going to take my talents to South Beach.
No...people progress because they realize that they were wrong. Different people get to that point in different ways.

I didn't call our your behavior at all. I think your behavior is fine. I'm just pointing out that it's, in my opinion, a suboptimal way to get the undecided to agree.

See, this is why I don't discuss things that matter on the internet. I always look at things from a legal argument perspective which makes people who I'm not even disagreeing with think I'm attacking them personally.

I'm just saying progress takes time.
02-05-2017 , 12:03 AM
lol, this is v/v/v/v

the only wolves are monkey and birdman, you dopes.
02-05-2017 , 12:25 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Birdman10687
Are you and others incapable of actually engaging with the discussion rather than just pointing out the flawed character of those involved in the discussion?
It's just that maybe we shouldn't ditch long traditions that many care about just because some people change their minds on a whim. And don't pretend like you have any real arguments, it's we don't like this is going on vs we like that this is going on

I'm not really feeling like politarding in general though.
Quote:
Originally Posted by insanity31
lol'd len

i haven't really offered my opinion on the matter tho

the TOAN of the thread was set within ~10 posts when the first dissenting opinion was banned and the second was given an equally terrible response by the mod (and creator of the thread)

i think it was irtm that made a pretty good post that was closest to my thoughts
Yeah, I might've took a leap. It was the 'think of the children' comment with recent activity in the actual ms pog thread.

Last edited by lenC; 02-05-2017 at 12:29 AM. Reason: removed dumb joke that had bad timing
02-05-2017 , 12:26 AM
You realize most of the women (the actresses and models) that are being objectified in this competition are getting paid for it. It is their job. Are you arguing that it is immoral for them to have this job, because it makes other women feel bad? Should we be protesting all models, actors and actresses for this reason?
02-05-2017 , 12:31 AM
72off and suq with a couple sane posts
02-05-2017 , 12:38 AM
Thread highlight has been dkgo recommending his revolutionary dkgoblock technique without taking personal credit for it. Would Dr. Harry Heimlich have been so humble, one wonders.
02-05-2017 , 12:52 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by VoraciousReader

I think it's disappointing that some people not only brushed aside CN's concerns but then supported nominating a porn star.

The porn star hand is being overplayed.

Someone asked if a porn star could be nominated, and my comment was:

Quote:
It would seem wrong to exclude a female from this contest based on the nature of her employment or profession.
If the concept of a porn star is unsettling ( and I can at least see how it would be for some), then think of the question as this:

Is it Ok to nominate someone who works as a ___________?

IMO, I don't need to no what the blank is to know that the answer must be yes.

VR, if you don't accept "yes" as the correct answer, then it is a tough place to continue your argument from. For, how can you on one hand object to what you see as a contest in POG that objectifies women , and yet on the other hand say that a person is unfit for said contest based on how she earns a living? Don't both things take on some form of judgement?

If judging in the former is wrong, than it is also wrong in the latter.

As for my POG nominee, she is not a porn star. She is a highly accomplished Canadian athlete and an excellent role model.

For my views on body-imaging, see my post 60411 in the politics thread.

I am still very much open-minded about things, and am reading the posts with interest. I really appreciate the rationalism that JM3 is bringing in the last batch of posts, and the respectful back and forth he and Crossnerd are having ITT.

More of that would be great.
02-05-2017 , 01:18 AM
Of all the threads on POG, this is certainly one of them.
02-05-2017 , 01:20 AM
No matter what the decision is I am still allowed to bump the KB thread once per year which is something I've been slacking on. That can't be taken away from me and winning miss pog was a pretty cool experience that only a small number of people can attest to.

I say we switch to cats
02-05-2017 , 01:35 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Kellanved
You realize most of the women (the actresses and models) that are being objectified in this competition are getting paid for it. It is their job. Are you arguing that it is immoral for them to have this job, because it makes other women feel bad? Should we be protesting all models, actors and actresses for this reason?
Yes. Also, you should always look away when you see a beautiful woman, as it makes the other girls feel bad and is sexist. You should first check her SAT scores and character references. Then you may look, but only at the eyes to make sure they are kind and honest. Also, if you get an erection from looking at a naked woman you are also a sexist. The proper way to gain blood flow is by reciting the 19th amendment over and over again until climax. You must also ask before climaxing and make sure she gets to have hers first...lol ok, ok, I can't say that last part with a straight face: just kidding, no reason to break a sweat about it guys.
02-05-2017 , 01:45 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Luckbox Inc
No matter what the decision is I am still allowed to bump the KB thread once per year which is something I've been slacking on. That can't be taken away from me and winning miss pog was a pretty cool experience that only a small number of people can attest to.

I say we switch to cats
Can't see bumping KB thread if Miss POG is outlawed. Good Place Season 1 is legit great, so I'll allow bumping KB thread for now.
02-05-2017 , 01:46 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Luckbox Inc

I say we switch to cats
They still would need to be female cats of course.
02-05-2017 , 02:05 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Luckbox Inc
No matter what the decision is I am still allowed to bump the KB thread once per year which is something I've been slacking on. That can't be taken away from me and winning miss pog was a pretty cool experience that only a small number of people can attest to.

I say we switch to cats
I also ran a best 4L pet competition...

People thought it might have been sexist because a girl's cat beat a guy's baby alligator in the finals.

      
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