I personally do not find Ms POG to be a particularly classy event. It's also nice to see that people like crossnerd can change over time.

That being said, I think it would be more inappropriate to ban it. A subset of people who care can enjoy the contest in a contained environment that does not do any direct harm to anyone who chooses not to participate.

I've been in communities where people spend half their time thinking about how to ogle women, and pressure everyone to join, and I've been in communities where people would make everyone take their glasses off in public so they wouldn't risk seeing an attractive women. I don't really see there being an objective truth, and while everyone thinks that they are on the optimal path, and that anyone too far from them is offensive, imo you lose more by allowing humans to push and cajole others to what they view as acceptable. Better to just be open and caring, and aim to bring more positivity than negativity to the world. Let people change their mind over time, and hopefully people converge to an acceptable point faster than through exclusion.

I do think that avatars are an order of magnitude more offensive than Ms. POG, since you can't specifically block out offensive avatars. Even that I don't think should be forced upon people.

You can block avatars with ad.block plus. I do that a lot. Tablets, of course, are a problem :/

The website is unwelcoming to women because poker is a male dominant game.

Women have their own subforum ffs, and we have a plethora of lefty mods in every single subforum to sufficiently police against any misogynistic posting. This is precisely why we are having the issue at hand.

The mods here are so tilited to the left that a thread where a group of guys want to politely talk about how pretty girls are is somehow being demonized as sexist and inappropriate.

The troll is real.

Unwelcoming attitude? That's why the moderators want to ban games people find fun? That's a welcoming attitude to grow the community? Less games and not more?

The ideal outcome would be that the community would collectively decide that they don't want it.

Well in that either rename this thread pog sjw or there has to be an actual vote because people arent just deciding.

I still think the toc as a way to end it is good and chuckles volunteered to run it.

You are out of your ****ing mind if you think there will be a SJW thread in PoG, or any other type of politics thread in PoG

I'm just trying to get the sjw out of my thread. That's all

The relevance is in banning a game is you are forcing people to conform to your twisted version of what is appropriate for a man to think about women in your community, and is thus relevant to our community.

My 'delusion' that the thread is only saying positive things about women (which it is, lol you) may be off-putting, but off-putting isn't a reason to ban a thread.

I personally find the discussion of hard drug use off-putting, as I've known people who have died due to ODs and more who seriously ****ed their lives up. Yet the most recent insanely popular thread in NVG was largely about extreme drug use. But despite how uncomfortable it makes me, I don't think people should be banned from talking about it. Especially since allowing it be discussed fosters a community where people feel comfortable to come forward with their issues with drug use and could potentially help people.

The same exists here. The presence of the thread has allowed XN to come forward with her concerns about anorexia. This has only made our forum better as people are re-evaluating what characteristics should be considered in the Miss POG game and only seeks to enhance our values and and ethics as an internet society.

There was a thread in oot where the discussion and focus was a murder video where the killer brutally murdered someone. Will skip the details but needless to say it was a v graphic description (didnt watch video). That isnt against the rules and obviously much worse so why should this get removed?

Also theres nothing wrong with changing your mind like xnerd. But I find it laughable to go from that kind of previous stance to now having a woman posing as a table and her posts in this thread. Where all the people who used to be like her are *(insert an adjective so i dont put words in mouth)*. Like if you used to be a certain way how angry do yoy get to be at others being how you were? Am i missing something?

Also soah maybe I dont follow yoyr points. Im saying why take ms pog ajd not go afters oot? Sorry if I didn't articulate well or not getting your side.

Puzzles and Other Games
Discussions about Puzzles and other non-gambling games

Yes, how TWISTED of me to FORCE you to CONFORM to the Orwellian thought-control of moving an irrelevant, divisive thread to a different section of the forum.

I guess it just starts with micro-aggressions like that, and then before you know it, it's full-fledged Stalinism.

...

Like I'm on board with the idea that you don't want to insulate yourself in safe spaces all the time. And guess what, I don't. But it's annoying to have controversial stuff all over the place, and it seems to me a subforum about puzzles and games would be pretty far down on the list of places where it makes sense to have controversial stuff.

Lol we once ran a death game in pog with actual people and they are all now dead

The people pushing this are members of this community and not OOT.

(Aside from that, in OOT it at least meets the forum description, whereas here it does not.)

And after it ran once it was shut down because everyone agreed that it was in poor taste.

I don't know what the state of miss pog is now, but when i won with kb i definitely felt like it was a game and that she would not have won without my efforts.

That's not the state of it now -- and you were the only person who ever treated the "game" aspect of it as anything more than a gimmick to justify it being in this forum.

Theory: There would be thousands of black people here playing werewolf if we didn't have terminology such as 'lynch'.

Maybe we can be salvaged but we would need the committee to go over all the lingo and declare what is acceptable.

arguing it's not a game rather than making a value/moral judgement seems reasonable

closing politics seems fine too, imo

This is a great post, btw.

Well i think if you nominate someone you should try to get them to win. Everyone involved took it seriously in that respect and i don't think it was an attempt at justification just that that was the way it was

Attacking the "standing" (so to speak) of VR or crossnerd to bring a complaint strikes me as missing the point. Well, I suppose if the only reason you can find to oppose Ms. POG as it exists is that it bothers specific people, then maybe you care about who those people are. But the argument against having Ms. POG, or at least in favor of trying to do it a little differently, is bigger than it just offending specific people. It's about larger questions involving gender, sexuality, and the objectification of women. I get that people will have different perspectives on those questions, but imo it doesn't clarify anything to make it a referendum on the worthiness of specific posters to complain while ignoring the larger questions.

It's also rather unpleasant, and especially in regard to VR, complaining that she doesn't contribute rather misses one of her main points:

I don't expect everyone to agree on this topic, but I think it is reasonable to think people could discuss it without turning it into an attack on the people raising the issue, who for their part haven't tried to turn it into an attack on the character of individual participants in Ms. POG.

Also if the only theory of the case is that we can get rid of Ms. POG but we have to get rid of the politics thread too I suppose I could stomach that, but I'd like to write in a proviso that kokiri has to PM me political opinions once per week.

Seriously. The sheer amount of argument from tradition in here is ****ing astounding.

We don't always have to do the things we did in the past, especially if they are stupid or offensive.

don't forget the pub, OOT or BBV4L suit much better for regular conversations

So they only care cause it effects their immediate surroundings? Thats worse. The argument was its sexist and mysogonistic. If thats the case it doesnt matter the forum and that wasnt the crux of their argument that it doesnt belong here initially either. They said its sexist, ok so go for something effects more people. Well we dont go there. Ok so we dont care about them?

Extreme example to illustrate a point. If something is universally wrong like sexism (not the platform used but the notion) then its wrong anywhere. Lets say unprovoked murder. If I shoot rawrs in the face thats bad. So yoyr logic is I don't live in (insert area) that has a lot of murders then i shouldnt care cause i dont go there.