I know right. I also dislike child molestation and gbh.

MB, quit modding like you're a normal person with common opinions.

The problem with feminism is that the feminists want to have the right for women to flaunt their sexuality (after all, it is their bodies so why shouldn't they), but it is wrong for men to objectify women.

Seriously, when every other women walking down the street is wearing yoga pants, I am going to be looking at their asses and objectifying them. If you have a problem with this, put on a burkha.

And no I am not blaming the victim, because there is no victim. Women in our society are just as complicit as men for how they are objectified, and as long as their are attractive women willing and able to make objects of themselves and flaunt their sexuality (i.e. Most of the pictures taken that was used in every Miss POG competition) there is going to be Miss POg like competitions on internet message boards.

For good or bad I doubt there are competitions like this in Saudia Arabia. Seems like they have figured out a way to stop objectifying women. So maybe if that is really want we want we should be modeling ourselves more on their society.

Just to be clear, has anyone at any point denied that Miss POG involves objectification of women? That seem like a given and people are defending Miss POG on other grounds. Is that accurate?

Of course it objectifies women. but who said that is a bad thing. We live in a world where women have the freedoms (and are paid handsomely) to parade around in their underwear and men have the freedom to comment on them on internet message boards. What a time to be alive.

have you seriously thought about what this alternate world where women are not objectified looks like, and whether you would even want to live in it?

Are women allowed to wear bikinis and yoga pants in public in this world?

Jesus ****ing christ

It's amusing that the "Crossnerd is a thrice-banned troll" crowd is mostly sitting back while a thrice-banned troll is championing their side of the debate.

The problem you guys have is you are just being malcontents to be malcontents but you haven't really thought through your position and what it means very well. I invite you to do so.

Alright so just to establish where we are, the people who are for continuing Miss POG agree that it is objectifying women. They just have no problem with an activity based on objectifying women existing within this community?

Unreal that Miss POG is stirring up so much controversy. If you really want to make POG a more welcoming environment, then you should start by getting rid of the politics thread. The only purpose it serves, as far as I can tell, is to make miserable people even more miserable. Absolutely no redeeming features whatsoever, and it certainly isn't a puzzle or game. So I find it kind of funny that most of the people who are calling for Miss POG to be banned don't really contribute anything to this forum anymore apart from posting in that thread.

There are 2 whole sub-forums on this site dedicated to that topic, so maybe some of y'all would feel more at home posting over there and leave this forum for those of us who do actually still like to play games.

The main argument I see being advanced itt is that Miss POG is ok because one of the posters itt who is against it has been banned a few times. So classic ad hominem.

"Miss POG is ok because some of the people who want to end it don't participate in the community the way I want them to and also the politics thread is bad"

Do you have an actual coherent argument that isn't just ad hominem or deflection? Does anyone?

Yeah. To anyone who ever wondered why women sometimes choose to stay silent versus speaking up, this (looks around at thread) is why.

And this is the backlash over something nobody seems to even care that much about. Imagine if they did.

I have always viewed POG as its own stand alone community within the 2+2 community. As such it has many aspects that allow it to be stand alone like its own pub, fantasy sports activities, philosophy and politics threads, trip reports threads, pictures threads, etc.

It has these things in addition to its core fiction as a puzzle game forum because, by nature of the games and the people that participate on it, it has become a tight nit community where people want to be able to do those things with specifically people within this community they have gotten to know. I want a low content thread where I can just hear from members of this community. Ditto for fantasy football or political discussions.

As a tight nit community, I believe that it is important not to perpetuate activities that alienate certain groups or members. I believe the existence of Miss POG does that, and I think the opinions both VR and CN have voiced show that.

In my opinion we should be thinking of this from the perspective of what we want for the POG community not what makes sense as just a sub thread on a poker website.

This is a gaming forum, not a politics forum (there is even a hint in the title). It seems perfectly reasonable to me that people who have no other interaction with the community outside of the politics thread should have much less say as to how the forum operates than those who do actually contribute to keeping it alive.

I've been a member of Pog for going on 10 years. I've modded more games than most of the people here. And it wasn't that long ago that I was a guest judge in Willi's walrus where I made a video reveal for each person. It was well received. Kruze also knows he can call on me to sub into a Paint game any time he needs. Yes, I post in the Pub and the politics thread. That is my prerogative.

I wasn't actually even referring to you, crossnerd.

Good.

I remember Birdman being around before you too, while we're on the subject. And I've never seen you in a game of WW.

WW is like the one game on this forum that I don't play. Not sure what your point is.

My point is your point is garbage. I don't know a kinder way to put it.

Ok, i was staying out of it but shhesh. This post is complete bull****. You and a handful of others have gone out of your way to alienate people that dont agree with you.

Well if you say so, it must be true!

lol this thread, seriously

good intentions don't make an offensive game ok

miss pog offends people. that is the definition of offensive.

is the main argument something like "if you're offended that's on you, because our intent is not to offend"?

in past miss pogs my intention wasn't to be offensively sexist, but i was

no, the argument for it is "it's a tradition that many people seem to enjoy, and what's the harm really? if you don't like it, ok ... so?"

and it's a celebration of women, not objectification
you're not a fan of celebrating women? sad!

if it pivots to person of the year or something, whatever
doubt it'll work out too well

biggest problem is that this place is full of miserable people who love to argue, and there aren't any WW games anymore, so instead we have politics & GRIEVANCES

Well i get offended by a lot of the vitriol sent my way, but that seems to be ok. Double standards.