The future of Ms POG
02-04-2017
, 02:28 PM
02-04-2017
, 02:53 PM
02-04-2017
, 02:57 PM
02-04-2017
, 03:26 PM
02-04-2017
, 03:42 PM
02-04-2017
, 03:57 PM
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As for the topic in question, I will first get the obvious, yet corrext "this contest does not break forum rules" out of the way.
Second, I think this is political correctness gone mad*. I do not believe that a female beauty contest suggests the idea that the only worthy quality of a woman is their beauty. Some might feel differently from me, which is perfectly defensible.
I think I understand the arguments people that oppose it have presented: they say that since for centuries women have been mostly viewed as mere objects, having such a contest today would continue to subtly suggest that idea for current generation.
I'd like to think that no one of us (I am speaking of POGgers here) views women as mere objects. I certainly don't.
Also, when I am speaking of political correctness gone mad, I am not speaking of Adam, Crossnerd and others presenting their objections. I am merely speaking of Monkey opening this topic, and only on that.
Second, I think this is political correctness gone mad*. I do not believe that a female beauty contest suggests the idea that the only worthy quality of a woman is their beauty. Some might feel differently from me, which is perfectly defensible.
I think I understand the arguments people that oppose it have presented: they say that since for centuries women have been mostly viewed as mere objects, having such a contest today would continue to subtly suggest that idea for current generation.
I'd like to think that no one of us (I am speaking of POGgers here) views women as mere objects. I certainly don't.
Also, when I am speaking of political correctness gone mad, I am not speaking of Adam, Crossnerd and others presenting their objections. I am merely speaking of Monkey opening this topic, and only on that.
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I have no idea who Richard Littlejohn is but you made a bad tone read, because I am perfectly calm right now.
I think that judging anyone on a trait does not imply they have no worth outside that trait.
Like I already said, I understand why not everyone feels that way.
Like Sun Tzu said, they simply do not have to click, which is the same thing I do when I see zillions of topics in POG that do not interest me (sheep) or that actively annoy me (the penultimate game).
I am, of course, not blind to the fact that I do not feel the penultimate game and sheep threads attack my identity or how am I perceived.
Nevertheless, I think it is not the complainants' decision to make.
What they can do (and did) is to present their arguments against that specific game and try to convince people not to participate in the current version of it; I daresay that some people already did.
I think that you're doing something quite different now.
I think that judging anyone on a trait does not imply they have no worth outside that trait.
Like I already said, I understand why not everyone feels that way.
Like Sun Tzu said, they simply do not have to click, which is the same thing I do when I see zillions of topics in POG that do not interest me (sheep) or that actively annoy me (the penultimate game).
I am, of course, not blind to the fact that I do not feel the penultimate game and sheep threads attack my identity or how am I perceived.
Nevertheless, I think it is not the complainants' decision to make.
What they can do (and did) is to present their arguments against that specific game and try to convince people not to participate in the current version of it; I daresay that some people already did.
I think that you're doing something quite different now.
Quote:
You are more or less correct. I usually dislike discussing political or social issues on this forum. When Crossnerd more or less directly asked me why did I nominate a particular woman without specifying if she had other qualities other than her good looks, I just said something to the extent of "different opinions".
I would like to note, however, that I did not attack Crossnerd and I am attacking MB, and this is in spite of the fact that I actually like Monkey Banana and I do not really like Crossnerd.
I am not attacking his opinion, but the role I think he is playing right now.
Like I said before, I usually do not like talking about social issues, but since I've already started, let me ask you this. You yourself said that you have been an enthusiastic contributor to Ms POG in the past years.
Since you are writing this post now, it is safe to say that your views on the matter have evolved over time. Fair enough. However, I would be willing to bet real money that even at the time you were a Ms POG enthusiast, you would feel uncomfortable finding yourself in a bar that hosts wet t-shirts contest.
Which leads me to the point that these are two very different things (I would feel really uncomfortable seeing a wet t-shirt contest as well).
Actually, I was not dismissing her concern, because, as I already repeated several times, she never asked for a mod to police this contest, but only appealed to the posters for stopping to participate. I disagree with her arguments, but I do not think this is PC gone mad because she did not attempt to try telling us what we ought to do.
I think that Monkey, in opening this thread as a moderator, is trying to do that, because he is trying to see if there is enough player support from preventing this contest from happening. He is talking about "policy" and posters shaping it.
I am not sure you will agree with what I am saying, but I at least hope you were able to understand my POV now.
You are more or less correct. I usually dislike discussing political or social issues on this forum. When Crossnerd more or less directly asked me why did I nominate a particular woman without specifying if she had other qualities other than her good looks, I just said something to the extent of "different opinions".
I would like to note, however, that I did not attack Crossnerd and I am attacking MB, and this is in spite of the fact that I actually like Monkey Banana and I do not really like Crossnerd.
I am not attacking his opinion, but the role I think he is playing right now.
Like I said before, I usually do not like talking about social issues, but since I've already started, let me ask you this. You yourself said that you have been an enthusiastic contributor to Ms POG in the past years.
Since you are writing this post now, it is safe to say that your views on the matter have evolved over time. Fair enough. However, I would be willing to bet real money that even at the time you were a Ms POG enthusiast, you would feel uncomfortable finding yourself in a bar that hosts wet t-shirts contest.
Which leads me to the point that these are two very different things (I would feel really uncomfortable seeing a wet t-shirt contest as well).
Actually, I was not dismissing her concern, because, as I already repeated several times, she never asked for a mod to police this contest, but only appealed to the posters for stopping to participate. I disagree with her arguments, but I do not think this is PC gone mad because she did not attempt to try telling us what we ought to do.
I think that Monkey, in opening this thread as a moderator, is trying to do that, because he is trying to see if there is enough player support from preventing this contest from happening. He is talking about "policy" and posters shaping it.
I am not sure you will agree with what I am saying, but I at least hope you were able to understand my POV now.
Quote:
I have always been extremely appreciative of VR's contribution to the forums. So when she implies that Ms POG is a competition is one of the factors that thinned her contributions in here, it is something that I cannot overlook.
However, right now, I am at the stage of "if we keep doing (thing) this cool poster will not be posting in here. That sucks. But I still do not understand why is there something inherently wrong with (thing)".
I have always been extremely appreciative of VR's contribution to the forums. So when she implies that Ms POG is a competition is one of the factors that thinned her contributions in here, it is something that I cannot overlook.
However, right now, I am at the stage of "if we keep doing (thing) this cool poster will not be posting in here. That sucks. But I still do not understand why is there something inherently wrong with (thing)".
Quote:
So wait a second, changing opinions on smth is par for the course, but how do you go from not merely participating, but actually running this very game two years ago to saying that given the response to your request to stop running the game in the present format, you are unsure if you can keep posting here?
You do not think you are overreacting a bit? Very few people insulted you; most of the people that disagreed with you were not rude.
You do not think you are overreacting a bit? Very few people insulted you; most of the people that disagreed with you were not rude.
Quote:
Apologies.
As for the rest, ok. I disagree with you and I do not think MsPOG is inherently demeaning to women, but I also think I understand your position.
If no one decides to run Ms POG next year, I definitely will not shed any tears over it, and I am certainly not going to run the thing myself. However, I also admit that the fact you are basically threathening to quit posting in POG just because you are not getting your way about something (of course, that something is a very important issue to you) kind of leaves me shrugging.
Not that it isn't your right to do so; social protest has aleays been a perfectly legitimate way of expression.
I am just telling you the impression your posts make on me; idk if you care.
As for the rest, ok. I disagree with you and I do not think MsPOG is inherently demeaning to women, but I also think I understand your position.
If no one decides to run Ms POG next year, I definitely will not shed any tears over it, and I am certainly not going to run the thing myself. However, I also admit that the fact you are basically threathening to quit posting in POG just because you are not getting your way about something (of course, that something is a very important issue to you) kind of leaves me shrugging.
Not that it isn't your right to do so; social protest has aleays been a perfectly legitimate way of expression.
I am just telling you the impression your posts make on me; idk if you care.
Quote:
Here's a non-rhetorical answer: that is because Adam did not say he would quit the forum if this did not stop.
Yes. Do you have a point? For example, I am not fond of beef and try to avoid eating it. If a regulation is passed that no longer allows beef to be sold in supermarkets, I am not going to be happy.
Anyway, my biggest, and, in fact, only issue is MB creating the thread; your posts in this thread are not an issue to me. I just found some of them strange, but perhaps I should have ignored your posts.
Yes. Do you have a point? For example, I am not fond of beef and try to avoid eating it. If a regulation is passed that no longer allows beef to be sold in supermarkets, I am not going to be happy.
Anyway, my biggest, and, in fact, only issue is MB creating the thread; your posts in this thread are not an issue to me. I just found some of them strange, but perhaps I should have ignored your posts.
02-04-2017
, 04:01 PM
02-04-2017
, 04:05 PM
02-04-2017
, 04:12 PM
02-04-2017
, 04:15 PM
02-04-2017
, 04:18 PM
02-04-2017
, 04:19 PM
Never said don't take it away. But I try to look at conflicts rationally and objectively, instead of feeble attempts to confirm my own bias (lookin at you).
There are plenty of good reasons to get rid of Miss POG, but to say it's not a game isn't one of them.
There are plenty of good reasons to get rid of Miss POG, but to say it's not a game isn't one of them.
02-04-2017
, 04:41 PM
