Ocho is worth more than a first and well more than Otis first imo. I think both sides did pretty well

I do want to say that I did tell OTI I think it was a good trade for him.

Just requires a specific set of circumstances for a 32 year old to be worth a first.

I think I disagree with pretty much everything chim said apart from it being a good trade for OTI It is also a decent trade for MM at the same time though obviously.

There's no way in hell Steve Smith is a better receiver than Ocho. His dynasty value might be marginally higher but saying he's better is lol. I also don't think it's particularly rare for a 32 year old to be worth a 1st, especially at WR.

Both receivers are very close.. I do think Smith is better, and younger. I think saying "There's no way in hell Steve Smith is a better receiver" or "saying he's better is lol" is way off base. If I'm wrong, its very close.

In other news, Sidney Rice "may miss half the season".

He's not been known for his quick healing, so who knows how long it will really be.

And come on.. going from "His dynasty value might be marginally higher" and lol'ing at him being better is kinda absurd. One year, of WR's in their 30's, don't make a leap from lol levels of talent difference to marginally more valuable.

Ocho has been a #1 receiver for years and has yet to have any significant drop off in production (obviously excluding injuries). Smith has had 1 year as a #1 receiver pretty much by default due to the Giants having no one else. Yes he did well but he's had just that one season. He's probably not even going to be the #1 receiver on his team this year. That one good year, which personally I'm fairly confident will be his career year, wouldn't even be in the top 5 years for Ocho.

I guess it depends slightly on your definition of better as well but in terms of overall talent at the position they're not even remotely close. In terms of production this year I would be fairly surprised if Smith was within 150 yards and 2 TDs of Ocho.

Steve Smith (CAR) is who I mean.

Well personally I would rather have Ocho in dynasty anyway, I just know that Smith's value is slightly higher. The reason it's higher is because he's young but the reason it's only slightly higher is because he's not actually anything special. If we were talking about receivers who were even close to the same talent level the guy with a 7 year age advantage would be worth vast amounts more. It's because Ocho is so clearly a better receiver that Smith is only slightly more valuable in dynasty.

Oh lol. Ignore everything I said then, Steve Smith (Car) is a better receiver than Ocho. I got thrown by the younger thing because it's not a huge deal when comparing those two whereas it obviously would be with the other Steve Smith.

Ya, sorry for confusion. Younger was kinda a throw away since its only a year.. basically was just saying he's not older than Ocho.

Maybe OTI was confused in IM, too.

All along I've been talking about Carolina.

For the record, I do not like NYG Steve Smith very much at all.

As you may have gathered, I'm with you there

I need to start planning who I want with the #1 pick.

This lol Ben Rapin' been raped imo
TO looked too good (quite a bit better than I expected so far but lolpreseason), Shipley looked ok enough to get some catches and they'll probably run tons anyways

Also I've seen there's been a bit of injury reserve action already....really?

We're talking about SS-NYG I assume? No way I'd trade him for a first right now. It's not like the Giants are magically going to get another PPR-machine. Yeah he may not get as many catches/TDs as last season but he'll still average plenty of them over a pretty long period of time and will have Eli for pretty much his entire career as long as he stays at NY

Prob bet on Ocho vs SS(NYG) fantasy points for this season? PPR obv.

And wrt the IR stuff, if a player already got placed on IR by their team there's no reason not to put them on IR here.

Unless it's a player you may want to cut. IR slots are valuable as well
With regards to the bet, I didn't want to make any prop bets this year but it's pretty tempting. Either way he's obviously worth tons more in dynasty

While I agree with all of this it's also not really relevant for my assessment of his value. He'll be their slot guy for years to come and they have shown that they will look his way on important downs a lot which is pretty big for PPR. My main concern is that they'll look at him less in the endzone in years to come
And I mean if you look at the way he played I really doubt it's a fluke year. It's not like he caught a bunch of deep-bomb TD passes. His scoring style is kind of low variance

Just in case you were talking about SS-CAR...he's better than 85 and it's not all that close imo especially if his QB situation improves only marginally

I'd be interested in your assessment of Miles Austin though. There's some good reasons why I'd want to sell him high these days but overall I'd still keep him.

Lots of money in Dynasty Football, noone's solid ;P

Edit: let me check my database

85: 215,6; 285,5; 279,3; 296,5; 267,3; 287,7; 231,9 -> C-AVG: 266,28
[...]
Steve Smith-NYG: 271 -> C-AVG: 271
[...]

I got a C-AVG score of 266,28 for 85 and 271 for Smith-NYG. Obviously Smith has only one year. I only count 14 games+ seasons for the base score and have some other adjustments like scoring each fumble (no matter if lost or not) as -1 etc

I don't think that Smith-NYG will be more than 15% worse this year which would leave us at roughly 230,35. Now the question is
a) Do you agree with this
b) Do you think 85 will be better than 86.5% of his career average

I think there are a couple of factors that will actually make 85 score less than 86.5% of his C-AVG. Most noteably reduction in targets due to a mix of Owens, Shipley, Gresham and especially in redzone looks (Gresham is a very legit TE imo)

I have no idea what those numbers mean, I'm guessing career points in this scoring system? I think there's a very good chance Smith does at least 15% worse than last year though (I project him at roughly 80/900/6, which is 24% worse in ppr scoring).

And about Austin, I think he's a much better receiver than SS but I'm not drinking all the cool aid. I just don't really believe that a receiver can not be good enough to get much play time at all for 4 years and then suddenly be elite. I think he probably ran a fair bit over EV last year and will do worse this year but still be worth a late 2nd/early 3rd round pick in redrafts, just not the high 2nd that he's being drafted at.

sweet, TO doing anything would be huge for me

TO has looked good this preseason because they want him to look good. They are trying to work on Palmer and TO's timing during game situations. Palmer and 85 already have pretty good timing.

85 is driver 2.0, He will fade into the horizon.... in like 5 years.

Chad is a top 20 dynasty receiver, I traded away a late 1st rounder which would get me the equivalent of Golden Tate next year. I also traded away Arian Foster who is worth <30th dynasty RB.

So basically I got a WR2 with WR1 upside for the next few years by giving up next years Golden Tate and a RB whose value next year is a complete ??? and would ride the pine for me.

I'll take my end.

Oh and I never said 85 was a better receiver than Smith south. I knew who we were talking about because due to age they were an obvious comparison.

I dunno your QB situation but it's not unlikely that you could also get the next Rivers with that first rounder in the next draft imo. I like your confidence that you gave up a late first rounder though

And Golden Tate could be the next Marques Colston. Saying you "could" get the next Rivers in that spot is silly - if someone had enough hype that they were likely to be the next Rivers they wouldn't be going late first. I know next year's draft class is pretty strong for QBs but it's still going to be a bit of a lottery and you certainly can't call it anything better than equivalent to a mid-late first round pick this past draft given it's in the future.

I think had that trade been made just before a draft (ie the rookie draft was next in the calender, not the season) then it would have been a bad trade. As it is it's good for both sides imo.

Just saying it because it's a little silly to say "yeah well 85>Tate so bwahahahah" without having seen a single regular season game

I would take 85 over the average 2nd round WR any day of the week and right now thats all Tate is and thats all next years WR in the same position will be.