And thanks Atak.

Your welcome. But don't just trust me — wait for others to chime in too. There are some really good players who post here — I'm a pretty good bidder, but there are better.

MPs NV I believe. 6 on the panel voted 3c, 4 voted 2c, 4 voted double, and a few other bids scattered around. Meckstroth voted 2c, so that is good enough for me .

Fun hand

Ax
KQxxx
KQJxx
x

auction goes playing 2/1
1h-1nt
2d-4h

go on? Its funny, I suspect my partner is Steve Weinstein here, but I can't prove it...or it might of just been some really good player from Peru...

yeah I pass that hand as well PBAL. Looks like a good hand for inverted minor raises. This is where 2d is a diamond limit raise. Then you have the room to explore for 3nt.

Haven't started doing anything that complicated in bidding yet. Which is mainly why I just read this thread.

Yeah I have played bridge with my dad for 4 years, and haven't got him to do inverted minors yet . They aren't helpful too often, but one of the times they are is with a nice minor fit where 3nt is a possibility.

Feel like providing a brief summary of what exactly it is?

http://www.bridgeguys.com/Convention...tedMinors.html

You can stop after the first 6 lines, or go on to see how in depth it can get...I guess an auction with that hand could go
1D-2D
2H-3C
3S-3NT

2H and 3C both showing a stopper in those suits. 3S showing a stopper as well, and forcing partner to play 3NT, since you want the opps leading to his king...

Interesting. Thanks. Don't see why people wouldn't play it over what they generally use 1C/D - 2 C/D for which is fairly useless.

Right, and the problem with 1D-3D as a limit raise is that it leaves no room to see if 3NT is good. Which is why I have to pass with your hand as well.

Yeah that was the exact issue with my hand. Especially good in our basic system where we never open a four card major so I end up opening 3 card minors anytime I'm 4-4-3-2.

Almost everyone in North America, and most elsewhere, faces the same problem, which is why inverted minors are pretty common in tournament bridge.

no bid, though i feel like i'll regret it

I suppose it depends on methods, but this could be either a five card raise with 5–8 HCP and no splinter, or a three card limit raise that reevaluated upward because of the diamond bid. Either way we're looking at around eight losers for partner and four in our own hand, so we have to move.

Almost any shape will work, so all we need to do is ask for aces. (If pard has some strange hand with a void, he can show it if we play a sensible system.) If partner doesn't have two we are very rarely in trouble in five hearts.

yeah partner has the perfecto Kxx/Axx/Axxx/xxx

I figured, or you wouldn't have asked the question... but with luck the strangeness of the auction puts you on notice that you have to work through the possibilities.

I tried to come up with some hand partner could have that would make more tricks in diamonds than hearts, meaning something other than asking for aces was better, but I couldn't find any where partner's bidding would be at all sensible.

Oh I went ahead and bid the slam, but wasn't too sure how sound it was...It was an IMP tourney, so figured had to try for that type of swing

Simply bidding the slam isn't pretty, when partner could have something like xx AJxxx xxxx Qx.

oh well I mean obv I went through 4nt first

I obv know the results now since you posted them, but for what its worth I would pass.
The 2nd round spade loser looms, we really need 2 aces AND the SK to make 6H.

But, FWIW I think partner's auction shows a 3 card limit that liked diamonds (assuming hes good which obv thorladen is!), and it's possible 6 DIAMONDS makes without the SK eg xxx Axx Axxx Kxx where we pitch dummys spades (needing 3-2 diamonds), but again I'm not trying for it. But I wanted to say that if you're trying for slam it should be for 6D imo, otherwise you're playing for A A SK.

I think it's interesting that because we have KQJxx of diamonds, it's likely partner is upgrading for not only honors but also a fit (whereas if we had Axxx he might have KQx or something), and 6D is likely to be good opposite the red aces.

I just re-read and noticed atakdog made a similar point so sorry for repeating him

PBAL, a lot of us play on BBO. You should join us.

Come to think of it, we haven't had a good POG game lately......

im in, im not sure im awake at optimal times for US players though

Probably going to x-post on BBO forums, but here's an auction to think about. Maybe this is omglolwtp but I didn't know what everything meant, especially with a random.

all red:
(p)-p-(1c)-x
(p)-p-(xx)-1d
(p)-??

what does 1d show, and what are our follow-ups?
what's forcing?
what are our diamond raises?
what are our NT bids?
How do these answers change if we aren't a PH?

I'd say:

- Short clubs and a diamond suit. Something like 4-3-5-1.
- Jump shifts and club cuebids.
- 4+ diamonds, forward going
- balanced, double stop clubs, 8+ or so.

If you pass 1C X and then bid 2C its not a cuebid