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Brainteaser and math puzzle thread Brainteaser and math puzzle thread

07-04-2011 , 06:38 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Gabethebabe
Some questions about this one:
- Do you see any difference between the switches if they are on or off? Or you just click and it changes, but visually nothing changes in the position?
the latter
Quote:
- After touching the switches, the table spins and you proceed in the position that you left before, but without knowing which switches are actually touched? Or does it go back to the initial state, without you knowing which position the table is in now?
the former. So say AB were on, CD were off, and you touched A and C. now BC are on, and AD are off. the the table spins, and the new set up is either off/on/on/off, on/on/off/off, on/off/off/on, off/off/on/on
Quote:
Originally Posted by theHuntContinues
If I ask the randomiser "If i ask each person who the randomiser is. what will each answer me with?"

what will the randomiser say?
Your question has to be a question with a single answer. You can't ask questions that are essentially multiple questions.
Quote:
Originally Posted by theHuntContinues
Why would you post your working on a public forums if "the solution is not for other people"?

You should have just posted the answer.
I just wrote my thought process down in the reply box til I solved it and then just posted the work I had done. I don't see anything wrong with that.
Brainteaser and math puzzle thread Quote
07-04-2011 , 06:43 AM
If I ask the randomiser "If i ask the randomiser who the randomiser is. what will he answer me with?" what will be his answer?

Last edited by theHuntContinues; 07-04-2011 at 06:44 AM. Reason: fix
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07-04-2011 , 06:55 AM
he will either tell the truth, or lie. So he would randomly point at one of the 3 people.
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07-04-2011 , 06:57 AM
if i ask the liar "if i ask the honest guy who the randomiser is, what will be his answer?" what will be his answer?
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07-04-2011 , 07:03 AM
well the honest guy would point at the random guy, so the liar would point at either himself or the honest guy.

going to sleep now
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07-04-2011 , 07:35 AM
I have the switch problem solved. It is quite nice. I will post the solution without the reasoning, so ibavly can confirm I have solved it.

Spoiler:
The answer is 7 times
  1. Switch two opposing switches
  2. Switch two adjacent switches
  3. Switch two opposing switches
  4. Switch a single switch
  5. Switch two opposing switches
  6. Switch two adjacent switches
  7. Switch two opposing switches

Now whatever the starting position was and irrelevant how you turned the table, all lights will be on.
Brainteaser and math puzzle thread Quote
07-04-2011 , 07:50 AM
Reasoning, because ibavly went to bed already

Spoiler:
FIRST: ASSUME we have an even amount of switches that are on and an even amount is off.
Since 0/4 switches=on means the light is on, we assume therefore there are two off and two on:

10
01

01
01

11
00

Three different possibilities (there are six, but they are equivalent in pairs, 0 and 1 mean different positions, it is irrelevant if 1=on or if 1=off). Now you switch two diagonally opposing switches. The first one will be solved - the other two mutate into:

11
00


10
10


The tables are turned - but you are still sure that two adjacent switches are on.
Now switch two adjacent switches, e.g. upper ones.
The red on is solved. The blue one mutates into:

01
10

Now you turn the table and whatever you do, switching two opposing switches will solve the problem.

So now we have the problem solved for an even amount of switches that were on in the starting position. In case we have not solved yet, means that there was an odd amount of switches on.

So switch one!

Now you are back to even and you repeat the procedure we did assuming the even amount: opposing-adjacent-opposing.


QED.
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07-04-2011 , 08:01 AM
starting position

x o
o o

1.

x x
x o

2.

x o
x x

3.

o o
x o

4.

o x
x o

5.

x x
x x

6.

o o
x x

7.

o x
o x
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07-04-2011 , 08:04 AM
solved in step 5
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07-04-2011 , 08:06 AM
i don't see why

00
11

and

01
01

are not equivalent
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07-04-2011 , 08:08 AM
okay you can't apply switch top 2 on 1010 and 1100 since there is no guarantee the orientations are the same since the position is randomised.
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07-04-2011 , 08:17 AM
nvm your solution works in 7 steps

Last edited by theHuntContinues; 07-04-2011 at 08:23 AM.
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07-04-2011 , 08:23 AM
There are 3 types of non-final configuration:

cross

ox
xo

adjacent

xx
oo

single

xo
oo

applying a cross swtich to a cross will always solve it
applying a cross switch to an adj will do nothing
applying a cross to a single will do nothing

applying an adj switch to a cross will convert it to an adj
applying an adj switch to an adj will solve it half the time and convert it to cross half the time
applying an adj switch to a single will do nothing

applying a single switch to a single will change it to either cross or adj or solve it
applying a single to a cross will turn it into a single
applying a single to an adj will turn it into a single

so [cross -> adj -> cross] will always solve (adj,cross)
and [single] will convert a single into (adj,cross)
Brainteaser and math puzzle thread Quote
07-04-2011 , 09:45 AM
It was quite some time ago I found such a nice problem, ty ibavly

I have several of my own, but these were posted already in this forum, albeit quite some time ago (maybe more than a year).
Brainteaser and math puzzle thread Quote
07-04-2011 , 01:25 PM
Line up the 3 people. Ask "Is the liar in front of the randomiser".

If the answer is yes, they must be lined up one of the following ways

Honest Liar Randomiser
Liar Honest Randomiser
Randomiser Honest Liar
Randomiser Liar Honest

Then ask the person in the middle, who cannot be a randomiser, "Are you a randomiser". The answer will tell you if he's a liar or an honest man. Then ask him about either the third or the first person if that person is a randomiser.

If the answer to the first question is no then the orientation must be:

Honest Randomiser Liar
Liar Randomiser Honest
Randomiser Honest Liar
Randomiser Liar Honest

The last person can not be a randomiser, so ask him if he's a randomiser to establish his honesty then ask him about the first person.
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07-04-2011 , 01:30 PM
damn, was getting very close, you should've spoilered it. But gj anyway
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07-04-2011 , 02:21 PM
vn, there are multiple solutions but they all follow the general concept of making sure you do not ask the randomizer Q#2.

An easy one (hopefully it will be clear!):

You have two identical glass balls, and a skyscraper with 100 floors. You're curious to know what is the highest floor you can drop the ball from without it breaking. Obviously if both balls break and you do not yet know the breaking point you lose. Your goal is to find the smallest number of drops you can use to guarantee you will find the breaking point.

Ex. one plan of action would be to start on floor 1 and keep moving up. that way when the ball eventually breaks you will know the answer. This could take up to 100 tries. Another possibility is to drop first from floor 50. If it doesn't break you start trying higher floors. If it does you are forced to start on floor 1 and go up one at a time since otherwise you would not be guaranteed finding the breaking point. This could take up to 50 turns.
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07-04-2011 , 02:39 PM
sqrt(100) = 10

go up 10 at a time and if it breaks start back at the prior point going up 1 at a time.
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07-04-2011 , 02:41 PM
maybe thats not such a good idea
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07-04-2011 , 02:44 PM
go up sqrt(how many floors left till the top) at a time and if it breaks start back at the prior point going up 1 at a time.
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07-04-2011 , 02:48 PM
nope
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07-04-2011 , 02:56 PM
ok i changed my mind. none of that.
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07-04-2011 , 03:31 PM
Spoiler:
Number of floor = N
number of times you have to drop the balls = t

Let's partition the floor into 2 parts seperated by the first throw position. Part A, whatever is on top and part B whatever is under. Say you need to drop the ball k times to solve Part A, then to solve part B when the first ball breaks, you would need to drop the ball k+1 times. Which means that for any number of floor N, you would need to add k+1 floors to increase the number of throw required by 1.

This means that the number of try required is the ith triangular number which is >100 aka.

14

Last edited by theHuntContinues; 07-04-2011 at 03:47 PM.
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07-04-2011 , 03:40 PM
Please spoiler your answers. People should be able to read through this thread without having the answers revealed to them.
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07-04-2011 , 03:46 PM
Spoiler:
ok
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