Herbie soft defending Iversonian when Felix points out a wolfy post by Iversonian.


Iversonian soft defending Herbie when Felix points out a wolfy post by Herbie.


Iversonian then calls for a CFD on Felix.

Clearing people is anti-village!!!

kokiri

you here? I need to ask you a question and you need to answer it quickly

Clearing wolves when you're wolfy yourself is

But that doesn't answer the question

Don't be jelly

Why do you care what I think of you if you already have me as a lock wolf and nothing I, my partner or anyone else can say will change your mind?

You can try to change my mind

Thingy can't

If I can answer it on my phone easily, yup. But be warned in advance that my inclination on being told what to do is to say **** you.

You remind me a lot of your last villager game yes

Forsy is also villagery.

Both me end forsy? Amazing

Thoughts on boobies thingies and kokbitch

Hmmm.... Sigh.

I need you to be at your computer for this.

Have you been phone posting this entire game? If not, let me know when you're back at your computer and I will ask you.

well, on the one hand my laptop turns out to be on, and on the other, i'm not your dancing monkey

Can't you two just discuss this in chat?

Have you played this game on your laptop?

It will only take 10 seconds - I swear.

bout half and half.

Actually, never mind. I can see that it's role neutral for you what I was hoping to see from you.

Cliffs: I'm reading your past games. I saw that you took notes in notepad in your village games, but I can now see that you also do this in wolf games even though I at first didn't notice this.

Incoming tl;dr any minute btw

I don't know about boobies.

Thangies has been underwhelming, I expect more from herbie especially after last game when he goated it up.

kokiri has to make up for the fact that gtpitch isn't really playing which suggests they're wolves.

fwiw, i take notes as both wolf and villager, maybe 1/3 of the time in total, and not this game

Kokiri, could you elaborate on why EoD makes Ivers a great vote today? I ask because you didn't seem to have any sort of a wolf lean on him yesterday.

Re Kokiri:
I've been going through his old games, too, namely the day ones of the two vanilla games he has played this year. It's not helping me very much. Stylistically he seems to post about the same in both roles. His reads-making is a bit less direct as a wolf, maybe. Posting for the sake posting. There's a hint of that in this game.

He does some things in both wolf games that don't show up in the villager game. E.g. he opens by clearing someone. Later on he votes for someone to run it up the flagpole and see what happens. Actually uses the same metaphor in both cases. That's not the stuff strong wolf reads are made of, though.

Still seems like an okay lynch, but I can't say I'm confident in it.

Re-read of kokiri

Okay. So I initially convinced myself that certain posts from kokiri yesterday were sort of villagery. But as I thought more about it and as well named pointed it out and as I grew more and more suspicious of kokiri deviating from what I consider his normal villagery self in other posts, I decided to just ignore those posts.

Now... Let's look at what think is unusual for kokiri's villager game from yesterday. I will quote some posts and explain why I think they're unusual for kokiri.

After I've done all that, I will go read some of kokiri's previous village games to see if I am actually even remembering his village game correctly. And then after that I will go check a couple of wolf games to see if hever makes levelly posts like the ones that I initially thought were villagery yesterday.

I will try my best to not have confirmation bias here - I don't expect to have any fwiw.

My memory of kokiri is that he's a paranoid and sometimes against-the-grain-kind-of dude - not that he will never state any reads, but he's independent and won't easily clear people. I am a bit suspicious that he would clear mets this early. I would expect him to be the type to make a point of not clearing mets too easily. I may be totally wrong on this - I hope mets can shed some light on this maybe.

I hated this and still hate it. I have never seen kokiri do this before as a villager. It doesn't resonate with my image of village kokiri as independent and confident. It reads very awkward to me.

I don't really believe that the first underlined thing is true. I guess we'll see though.

As for the second underlined thing, look at that in combination with this:

He seems very unsure of himself / weird stating this read. Going back and forth on a read can generally be villagery, sure, but from kokiri it doesn't seem believable. It more reads like wolfy waffling to me rather than his village game where he will just directly state what he's thinking.





Alright, so... Now to take a look at kokiri's day 1 in 3 recent village games:

Star Trek - kokiri as villager #1

This is his most recent villa game. He only had 15 posts, so I will just quote them all.

So things that I notice here:

• He's pretty straightforward in his approach. He calls people out and votes them. He doesn't self-comment or waffle when stating his reads.
• He tries to work together with other players - in this case mets. It does seem that he trusts mets in this game, as he apparently does this game, but he's being different about it - he hasn't really tried to work or interact with mets iirc and he in this village game he didn't state a lock villa read on him.
• He complains about how the game is going - only a few people are trying, he says

Conclusion: All this is different from this game. He has shown none of the above traits in this game and has furthermore shown the opposite trait of the first point in the list: He does self-comment and waffle when stating his reads. This is usually a wolfy sign of wanting to overexplain one self or comment on things because one is feeling nervous.

8/2 VANILLA GAME - kokiri as villager #2

Again, I will just quote them all.

This is kokiri answering a question about how he approaches ww. Since he's a villager, we can take this as gospel. I don't know how much of this is useful knowledge, but I will re-read his posts later in this game with this in another window and see if it all matches up.

Supine is the mod, so this is a joke, to be clear.

• He reads other people villagery based on agreeing with them / sharing their thought process. He has done this in this game as well - I believe it was fank he let off the hook because he shared a wolf read on... ivers? Or someone. So at least this aspect of his village game is in line with this game.
• He's pretty straightforward again with his reads. The one "waffly" sort of read that he has is this: "i read soah's posts and was a bit o_O about them - I'm not ready to call him a wolf for them, but they were a bit weird and out of what i would think of as usual soah". <<< I'm trying not to have confirmation bias here, but I still don't think this is waffly in the same sense as some of kokiri's reads have been in this game, but I will reevaluate this later.
• He posts his reads as he is catching up. I'm not sure he's had to catch up in this game though, so hard to compare.

Conclusion: Inconclusive for now. I will take a closer look at this later - it's hard to do when writing this up. He shows both differences and similarities to this game at a first glance.

Anniversary VI - kokiri as villager #3

Again, I will quote all his d1 posts.

To be clear, this is the game that I've had in mind when I've been saying that kokiri has been seeming different. I remember this game clearly because I was a wolf and I received a lot of pressure from a confident and independent kokiri.

• He's very confident in this game and straightforward/aggressive with his reads. His read on me is a good example. He also taunts me sort of. Same with how he jumps at something chim wrote and how he reverses his reads on Herbie to not trusting him anymore.
• It's only now that I really notice this: kokiri in all these 3 villa games doesn't really waste much time on villa reads or listing all his reads. He jumps at people or things that he finds wolfy. This is wildly different from this game.
• And again, there are no levelly or weird self-comments like there have been in this game.

Conclusion: This points very much to kokiri being a wolf.

7/23 Vanilla 13'er - kokiri as a wolf

I will quote all his posts again.

• He does the "post reads as he's catching up" thing here as a wolf, so scratch that overall as a potential villagery thing for him - and add to that of course that he hasn't been doing it anyway in this game.
• To the important stuff: Unlike all his 3 villa games, he starts this game off with a villa read rather than a wolf read. And he continues this with more villa reads and a lack of the straightforward, aggressive and independent wolf reads that he usually has as a villager.
• He's sort of wordy/weird/waffly/not clear and adamant about his reads, unlike his villager game. Examples: "but for now I thought shipitup was villagery in a don't tell the seer what to do ffs sort of way, so I'll be unvoting." + "Historically, mail it in nich is a lock wolf, so if he is very terse itt then we should lynch him. However, i would tend to be a bit more forgiving with the posting elsewhere thing until it becomes a pattern of thread avoidance." + "TMleaf's posting is sort of high tempo wolfy, but from reading him elsewhere in pog i think that's just his posting style, so as i said above, i think that's a village lean from him" + "DividedSky is weird. (s)he seems to be in the thread, interacting, but is overly understanding of everyone's point of view, and seems to be avoiding any confrontation."

OVERALL CONCLUSION:

In all his village games he starts off by pursuing wolf reads. And he does this in a straightforward and silently aggressive way by which I mean: He's very blunt about it. In his wolf game he does the opposite - he's naming villa leans right off the bat as well, something that he didn't use really any posts on as a villager. In THIS game he starts off with a villa read in addition to a wolf lean - which is much more in line with his wolf game.

Furthermore, he gives a big reads list:

This is again more in line with his wolf game where he also did a re-read and also laid out a bunch of reads, albeit in a different format if anyone thinks that matters. In NONE of his 3 village games did he dish out a bunch of reads at the same time. So this seems to be something that kokiri does as a wolf to appear like he's contributing, plus maybe he has a easier time giving village reads in addition to only mainly concentrating on wolf leans.

To be fair, he does sort of address this himself: "That's way more reads than i normally have, wtf". But even this comment in itself is unusual for kokiri's villager game.

To expand on this, examples of kokiri being awkward / waffly / not aggressive and independent in this game:

This is waffling when stating his read. Something that he does as a wolf as shown above, and not as a villager as shown above.

This isn't like any of his village games reads.

He doesn't provide this type of elaborate and wordy and weird levelly type read in any of his village games. Also, notice that he words a post much the same in his wolf game: something strikes him as something "in a sort of way" - he's being unclear / vague in a way that he's been seen to do as a wolf.

When I as a wolf confronted him on his wolf read on me, he had the complete opposite reaction. Here he wavers and is unsure of himself, something that I didn't see in any of his village games.

Also, I won't say the below here is wolfy, but I am quoting it to make sure that people know that he said almost the same thing when voting someone in his wolf game ("DividedSky on a run-it-up-the-pole-and-see-if-it-waves basis."), so THIS type of aggression is not villagery for him.

Add to all this that gtpitch ofc hasn't done anything.

CONCLUSION AFTER THE CONCLUSION

Let's lynch kokiri.

I know that that's very tl;dr, but since kokiri is very likely the lynch today, I would like it if people read it. Or at the very least, I would like it if you just read the kokiri quotes from his various games to get a sense of whether YOU think he's different in this game from his village games and/or similar to his wolf game in this game.

Thank god I always check how long a post is before I start reading it.

I liked the points about having more villager leans and posting lists as a wolf. Looking at his second most recent wolf game, the North Pole Expedition from 2009(!), both of those seem to hold true. Here are his first three posts in that game:

Villager leans plus lists.