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Old 06-22-2015, 10:08 AM   #2451
fontisian
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Re: The 2015 Mafia Championship: Game 6

TehBankertin

Nice try.
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Old 06-22-2015, 10:29 AM   #2452
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Re: The 2015 Mafia Championship: Game 6

I'm good with Achromatic now. I doubt scum!Achro says scum are probably bussing and then becomes the deciding vote on Road.

Tempted to go for Bhuber with the way he's emphasizing how much liked Road, but Banks is still so much worse.
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Old 06-22-2015, 10:53 AM   #2453
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Re: The 2015 Mafia Championship: Game 6

Blarg. 2+ hours later, done with day 2. Going to be even longer than that to finish, though, cause of short work commitments and other real life things that need to get done.
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Old 06-22-2015, 11:23 AM   #2454
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Re: The 2015 Mafia Championship: Game 6

bhuber

to be different
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Old 06-22-2015, 12:00 PM   #2455
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Exclamation Vote Count

Votes from post 2445 to post 2454
Night in 31:59:58

---
VotesLynchVoters
2 TehBankertin Slendy (2), fontisian (2)
1 bhuber2010 Riki (1)
4 not voting Achromatic (0), bhuber2010 (2), dorian78 (2), TehBankertin (0)
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Old 06-22-2015, 02:24 PM   #2456
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Re: The 2015 Mafia Championship: Game 6

Time to go all in on my theory!

Okay so I think Dorian is the last scum and unlike yesterday where I truly couldn't have cared less who got lynched (this may have been obvious) I am going to get right to the point that I think I have Ratchet's scum game nailed 100%.

So during an early list day one, I mentioned two groups of people that stood out to me. The first was the trio of Slendy/Bhuber/Road which I said the following about:

Quote:
Slendy, whom I like for town, is about a lack of seeing him lately for the most part. I think that's a fair reasoning for feeling null about something.*

Bhuber he says is inconclusive based on number of posts. A pattern with Slendy. He thinks he has been town, but not enough. This sounds genuine to me actually. I wouldn't look at this again.*

Now we get to road and... notice something weird? He likes road's contents, but there's just something off he claims. What I find interesting about this is how... different it is from Bhuber and Slendy. Theirs' is about a lack of content mostly, whereas road Ratchet really wants us to feel his conflict here. He gives himself an opening to go either way on road at any point and moves on. I find this to be very damning for road, personally. This, in hindsight, doesn't appear to be a natural read at all and seems incredibly forced into the realm of null. As if he realized he had a buddy in town and didn't want two of them there.
Slendy the same, Bhuber the same, road the outlier. This proves that Ratchet, while pretty good, isn't aware enough to realize these small, minute arguments that if you look at them from the right angle become glaring. This was my first example, which I was 100% correct on.

The second set:

Quote:
Banker, his strongest read for awhile now. He lists two things he really likes, even if they disagree. I can smell the buddying of town from here, in my humble opinion.

Riki – His arguments make sense, even if I don't agree with them. That's a pattern with Banker and Riki, liking despite disagreement. It is a common thread!

Dorian – Simply because they agree. Wait, that's different. Two of the town reads in dispute are town despite their disagreement, but with Dorian it is simply a matter of them agreeing. He has apparently been able to see past simple agreement when it comes to the others to find their true, bursting town nature but Dorian this doesn't apply. He also uses qualifying language in 'simply' as if he could, at any moment, discard this read if it suited him.*

What's INTERESTING about this, is his point about me. I know it's just above but I'll quote it. He qualified his town read on me with “I am only willing to take … agreeable points so far in this game.”

Dorian and I are held to different standards. Why is that?*

Based on that and how he interacted with others, to this point (and I am stopping for now so MSU has a chance to read over this portion and give me some feedback) I think road looks very bad by how Ratchet treated him, with Dorian a distant second. I think Banker looks a lot better and Riki looks somewhat better based off of these interactions. Bhuber hasn't really made any movement.
Same, same, different. Same pattern as with road and road proves that he doesn't realize he is doing this with a scum buddy. I, of course, could be wrong but the fact of the matter is we've got a few spare bullets in the chamber and I don't think any of the Banker/Bhuber conspiracy theorists (that's mean, the theories are perfectly valid I am just being a jerk I am sorry) have something as compelling as this, especially when you consider that my method already pierced scum once. Bhuber could be scum, Banker could be scum... but allow me to say something in consideration.

Banker just... played yesterday 100% wrong if he is scum. In my view, of course. Scum, in my estimate, gain nothing from trying to avoid a road lynch. I am assuming the final scum is intelligent and thoughtful. I feel like from a survival stand point the person who makes the most sense as scum is Dorian. Votes his scum buddy early and let's the town fight among themselves. I think this, along with what I feel like is compelling evidence from Ratchet speaking about him makes him the best choice for a lynch today.

Bhuber's only crime is a real life issue
Banker's crime is being wrong one too many times.

… I've forgotten about Riki, I like Riki. He's good people.

Dorian > Banker > Bhuber > Riki in terms of my current priority.

I am very confident about Dorian though. Because reading some early road/Banker interactions on top of Ratchet/Banker interactions I just don't think he's scum. So yeah I am pretty dead set on Dorian today. No seriously: road and ratchet both call banker village very early. That's... something I think they would be careful about for a buddy.

Also Road doesn't interact with dorian early. He gives him town points but, like, he doesn't have any back and forth with him at all.

Road questions Banker why he finds Bhuber villagery. Honestly I am probably tunneling but I think this makes Banker and Bhuber both look excellent <_<.

This has also probably been pointed out but he went from having dorian super villager to leaving him completely off his list of villagers later in the day.
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Old 06-22-2015, 02:36 PM   #2457
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Re: The 2015 Mafia Championship: Game 6

i kind of agree that banks would probably play yesterday's eod differently if he was mafia with road

like it doesn't feel like he was making posts knowing that road was about to flip mafia
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Old 06-22-2015, 02:38 PM   #2458
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Re: The 2015 Mafia Championship: Game 6

my case on bhuber is that he was openly trolling the thread with road yesterday at eod
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Old 06-22-2015, 02:45 PM   #2459
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Re: The 2015 Mafia Championship: Game 6

I think Banks is one wifom level higher than you guys and played yesterDay 100% wrong deliberately. I mean, he actually resorted to calling me scum because he couldn't find any partner for dorian between his townreads and the unaligned pairs logic already in the thread. There's no way he'd honestly come to that conclusion.
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Old 06-22-2015, 02:48 PM   #2460
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Re: The 2015 Mafia Championship: Game 6

I have accounted for Banks being one wifom level above me, actually. If the defining thing for Banks was his play yesterday I would be lynching him. Also the truth of the matter is that it was poor wifom by him given he is now my second highest. This is all about degrees. I wish for Dorian to die first because I think that ends the game. So I am going to argue for it.
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Old 06-22-2015, 03:25 PM   #2461
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Re: The 2015 Mafia Championship: Game 6

That took forever. I'm finally done skimming/rereading the whole thread. I did it knowing that Ratchet and road are mafia, and assuming that bhuber and Banks are. Except when the two were directly interacting, cause of course they can't both be. I literally have 3 full pages of notes I made while doing it. Dumping 3 pages of unfiltered notes will not be helpful, so I'm going to try my best to condense it to the highlights.

Before I start, I am completely unsurprised at Achromatic's vote for me after the reread. I haven't read his case yet, but I will when I'm done making my own and find the time. Also,

Quote:
Originally Posted by bhuber2010 View Post
If feel as if banks were scrum with road, he probably would have find a reason to backdoor his way into a road vote and at least try and get some bus credit (even if he wouldnt have really gotten any at all)
I disagree with this completely. Switching over to your teammate's wagon at the end of the day so that everyone can see your name voting for him in the final vote tally is like one of the scummiest things you can do. Especially if it requires contorted logic to contradict what you've been saying all day. Banks knows that, and would avoid it like the plague.
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Old 06-22-2015, 03:33 PM   #2462
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Re: The 2015 Mafia Championship: Game 6

I confess I am not one to surprise. I am pretty deliberate with my reads.
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Old 06-22-2015, 04:00 PM   #2463
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Exclamation Vote Count

Votes from post 2445 to post 2462
Night in 27:59:57

---
VotesLynchVoters
2 TehBankertin Slendy (2), fontisian (3)
1 dorian78 Achromatic (3)
1 bhuber2010 Riki (3)
3 not voting bhuber2010 (2), dorian78 (3), TehBankertin (0)
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Old 06-22-2015, 04:11 PM   #2464
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Re: The 2015 Mafia Championship: Game 6

Quote:
Originally Posted by fontisian View Post
I think Banks is one wifom level higher than you guys and played yesterDay 100% wrong deliberately. I mean, he actually resorted to calling me scum because he couldn't find any partner for dorian between his townreads and the unaligned pairs logic already in the thread. There's no way he'd honestly come to that conclusion.
This.

I do promise that I will go through dorian, Achro, but answer me this: am I wrong in claiming that Ratchet actually treated Banks differently from Riki? Am I wrong that the person who made the Ratchet/Banks -interactions look good was Banks, who initiated all the meaningful ones?
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Old 06-22-2015, 04:27 PM   #2465
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Re: The 2015 Mafia Championship: Game 6

Ugh. Here we go, in two posts. First thought - never, never again will I play a game with this high a postcount/player/day. I can't possibly quote or link all of it, but I've left post numbers where I noted them if you want to reference stuff. Also, it's like 10 times more about Banks than bhuber because Banks posted like 10 times as much (duh).

Day 1

- road buddies Banks hard right out of the gate.
- Banks seeks out interactions with Ratchet out road, not vice versa, but he does that with everyone.
- road's first comment on bhuber is "wow, I don't know what to make of this." SmartBomb reads road as mafia for it. Sigh...sorry, Smartbomb
- Ratchet's middle-of-the-night reads put both road and bhuber at null and Banks at the top. Would Ratchet really put both teammates as null? On the other hand, would both road and Ratchet put Banks at the top of their town list? I haven't played this format enough to know what scum does more often, but both stick out to me.
- road actually had bhuber as his top scum to be lynched on day 1. I totally didn't remember this.
- Banks, who has people he refuses to let everyone lynch, eventually takes road off the table, for no apparent great reason. That's a big red flag.
- #1027 Banks flat out tells Ratchet that if Ratchet votes for cue, he'll have to vote for Ratchet. This totally reads as "if you try to defend yourself that way, I'll have to bus you right here and right now."
- #1032 Banks flat out tells Road how to defend himself better.
- #1044 As a result, Ratchet bends over backward to justify not voting for cue and keeps his vote on Slendy instead.

The end could possibly be explained by Bank's excuse of thinking Ratchet was cop, but I've already said I'm skeptical of that reason, and agree with Slendy that I don't see anything on day 1 that proves it.

Day 2

- road immediately uses Riki's question about why he still wanted bhuber lynched D1 to completely flip his read on bhuber to town, for I don't-really-know-what reason. He sticks with that read until the end. That's sketchy for bhuber.

- Banks's first entrance is to tell people to look for SHC. Just like road's first entrance, which I hated. The next thing he focuses on, instead of scumhunting, is defending himself from me, of all people. It seems very out of character for his personality that's all gung-ho about finding mafia, especially with so much discussion-worthy stuff that had happened already.

- #1260 Banks offers MSU a 3x3, despite MSU not asking him for one. It's weird that I'm not on the kill-list after he just finished saying I was scummy. It's weird that Slendy isn't on the save-list if he's actually planning to claim fakescan Slendy as town like he says he was.

- Ratchet's reads are unchanged - bhuber and road are null, Banks is top town.

- #1274 and #1311 Banks coaches Ratchet on how to defend himself TWO MORE TIMES. Then he places a never-explained vote on road (who wasn't in the top 3 to kill that he just posted), which quickly moves to MSU. This is all so scummy it hurts.

- #1494 MSU asks Ratchet if anything’s changed, suddenly bhuber leans scum, even though he hasn’t posted once since her last reads. That seems unlikely if bhuber is her MIA teammate.

- #1506 road returns after long absence to find he’s in the lead. Asks Banks! (and Achro) where to focus his attention. Also seems like he’d rather make a case on Slendy or MSU instead of Banks. Unless Banks is his teammate why the hell would he ask Banks how to spend his time if he's about to make this enormous case on him?

- #1615 Banks’s first thoughts on future scum after the claim: bhuber and Riki/road…but probably not road. What about me? Riki asks him that, his answer sucks, given that he's claimed to think I'm scummy more or less all game.

- Starting with MSU's reveal, Banks is constantly talking about reading Ratchet's spew, and how he's going to make some huge insightful post on it when he's done. Instead, he draws fairly light conclusions from it and never actually makes the post.
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Old 06-22-2015, 04:31 PM   #2466
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Re: The 2015 Mafia Championship: Game 6

Day 3

- fonti asks Banks about road, he waffles back and forth and then thinks probably town for no apparent reason. Riki notes the bad reasoning, Banks agrees with Riki's point, but doesn’t change his opinion on road. (#1859-1862)

- bhuber, upon his return, immediately townreads everyone who’s consensus town. Certainly possible as town, but mighty convenient as scum, especially if he’s looked ahead to see who’s consensus town. fonti makes this same point later.

- road uses the fact that he dropped his cop cover as a defense. Since his cover was on Banks, I can totally see Banks feeding that argument to road. bhuber probably wasn’t even around either night to feed anything to anyone.

- #1952 My point on road’s fakescan of Banks leading to less interaction still stands.

- #1964 Slendy’s case for Ratchet/road/Banks. I still find it 100% believable after a reread.

- Banks thinks Riki might be scum because Bank's fakescan wasn’t believed. Slendy asks him to follow that train of thought, Banks dodges the question “until a reread,” and then never answers. (#1998-2000). He does admit that mafia road is more likely, but never actually starts thinking road could be mafia.

- #2084 Banks presents the most contorted case ever for why road must be town for his D2 Banks push.

- bhuber asks Banks to name a partner for mafia-dorian. Banks once again dodges the question in favor of pushing harder on me. bhuber calls him out on it later, Banks makes the biggest cop-out answer ever. I say that, he admits to copping out, though maybe that was a joke. He NEVER answered the question, and it's pointless now, because the only answer to give now is road.

- bhuber doesn’t think road’s D2 case on banks could be a bus/distancing attempt, yet still think road or Riki are Banks’s most likely scumbuddies. That's odd, especially given that he was pretty pro-road by this point.

- Banks’s game with my filter is only proving that I fit my own description better than his perfect little mold of what a good little townie looks like. He’s also flat-out giving road an excuse to claim that I look scummy so that when road eventually has to vote for me with Banks it looks more natural and less self-preservationy.

- Bhuber wants road not lynched sooo bad. Is he just that wrong as town, or is he level 3(?) thinking it, because bussing his teammate (level 2?) is too obvious, and thus he’s doing the opposite? Like, he wants us to think that no mafian would defend their teammate that hard.

- Banks now accuses me of being teammates with fonti. He’s the only person to seriously look outside the poe besides road. Because he has to to have any chance.

- #2378 I am reminded of my case on bhuber from the start of the day that was never addressed. Banks jumps on any excuse to put bhuber back on his suspect list after just saying he thought fonti was more likely and he could understand bhuber.

----------

Huh. I guess I didn't do too good a job condensing the end, which is where most of the important points are. In the end, I find that the things that make bhuber scummy are mostly just oddities. I suppose I'm possibly biased because I've been Banks's target for most of the game, but I find my observations of Banks to be way, way more damning.

Banks is constantly searching for mafia, and for reasons to call Riki, road, MSU (in the early game) and bhuber scummy. And yet he always keeps coming back to me, even though I don't fit into any of the scenarios he's thinking about. Any time anyone points that out to him, he dodges it. Basically, he decided very early on that I am an easy target. And he was right. I was inexperienced in the format, not confident in my early game, wrong in my early game, and am just not a confrontational personality, especially when in a new situation. I don't fit his little mold of what a good townie should be, and so it should be easy to get everyone to lynch me. It's why he keeps coming back to me, despite it not making any sense from his point of view. I'm tired of it.

He wants me to confidently take a stand on him? I think you are the last wolf, Banks, and as you so eloquently put it earlier

Quote:
Originally Posted by TehBankertin View Post
Wolves can suck my dick.
TehBankertin
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Old 06-22-2015, 04:32 PM   #2467
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Re: The 2015 Mafia Championship: Game 6

Ok. I HAVE to run an errand and do a little more work. I will address Achro's case as soon as I have time.
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Old 06-22-2015, 04:48 PM   #2468
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Re: The 2015 Mafia Championship: Game 6

I was trolling the thread last night (of sorts), but only because I was afraid I was about to (and did) lose my good FRAND road.

If you guys knew me, or knew anything about it me, I take playing the mafia role extraordinarily seriously.

I've literally never once given up despite overwhelming circumstances...so to say I'd openly troll the thread as mafia while my scum bro road was going down is probably pretty farfetched for me....it would be fun
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Old 06-22-2015, 04:53 PM   #2469
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Re: The 2015 Mafia Championship: Game 6

Its possible that road was making a case against "town!banks" (or whatever this weird ass method I keep seeing you people use) and I was just a sucker for it - and perhaps banks is correct about dorian - but I think most will see that I am town and I think the correct lynch today is between dorian/banks.

Y'all will probably hate me but I have work again M-W so my IRL circumstances are going to be prohibit me from being active again for a while. I know I know. Sorry.

Basically this is a pretty good example of what its like to be town and just be busy - I am somewhat resigned to the fact that my biggest contribution to this game will simply be to not become a mislynch and I am okay with that. Basically I am just going to use that as an excuse to keep posting and keep having fun.

I think my tone is probably enough to clear me but thats probably a bit biased Needless to say, correctly lynching mafia yesterday bought us a little more time (in terms of our ability to mislynch twice now). So I'd probably go dorian/bhuber2010/banks in any order (and yes I included myself) and just re-evaluate everyone at lylo if it comes to that.
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Old 06-22-2015, 04:58 PM   #2470
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Re: The 2015 Mafia Championship: Game 6

Quote:
Originally Posted by fontisian View Post
I think Banks is one wifom level higher than you guys and played yesterDay 100% wrong deliberately. I mean, he actually resorted to calling me scum because he couldn't find any partner for dorian between his townreads and the unaligned pairs logic already in the thread. There's no way he'd honestly come to that conclusion.
he could've easily called bhuber/dorian the scumteam if he wanted to though

or just like, call his teammate scum when he was 100% getting lynched

i mean, i know i tinfoiled on you/achro at least once over the weekend since both of you barely posted
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Old 06-22-2015, 05:02 PM   #2471
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Re: The 2015 Mafia Championship: Game 6

Quote:
Originally Posted by dorian78 View Post
...
- Ratchet's middle-of-the-night reads put both road and bhuber at null and Banks at the top. Would Ratchet really put both teammates as null? On the other hand, would both road and Ratchet put Banks at the top of their town list? I haven't played this format enough to know what scum does more often, but both stick out to me.
- road actually had bhuber as his top scum to be lynched on day 1. I totally didn't remember this.
- Banks, who has people he refuses to let everyone lynch, eventually takes road off the table, for no apparent great reason. That's a big red flag.
- #1027 Banks flat out tells Ratchet that if Ratchet votes for cue, he'll have to vote for Ratchet. This totally reads as "if you try to defend yourself that way, I'll have to bus you right here and right now."
- #1032 Banks flat out tells Road how to defend himself better.
...

The end could possibly be explained by Bank's excuse of thinking Ratchet was cop, but I've already said I'm skeptical of that reason, and agree with Slendy that I don't see anything on day 1 that proves it.

Day 2

...

- #1260 Banks offers MSU a 3x3, despite MSU not asking him for one. It's weird that I'm not on the kill-list after he just finished saying I was scummy. It's weird that Slendy isn't on the save-list if he's actually planning to claim fakescan Slendy as town like he says he was.

- Ratchet's reads are unchanged - bhuber and road are null, Banks is top town.

- #1274 and #1311 Banks coaches Ratchet on how to defend himself TWO MORE TIMES. Then he places a never-explained vote on road (who wasn't in the top 3 to kill that he just posted), which quickly moves to MSU. This is all so scummy it hurts.
...
- #1506 road returns after long absence to find he’s in the lead. Asks Banks! (and Achro) where to focus his attention. Also seems like he’d rather make a case on Slendy or MSU instead of Banks. Unless Banks is his teammate why the hell would he ask Banks how to spend his time if he's about to make this enormous case on him?
Love you, dorian.
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Old 06-22-2015, 05:03 PM   #2472
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Re: The 2015 Mafia Championship: Game 6

Seriously, regardless of your affiliation I think you've been underestimating your capabilities a little, dorian.
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Old 06-22-2015, 05:04 PM   #2473
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Re: The 2015 Mafia Championship: Game 6

Well at least Dorian and I agree that Ratchet wouldn't call both of his buddies null.
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Old 06-22-2015, 05:06 PM   #2474
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Re: The 2015 Mafia Championship: Game 6

Quote:
Originally Posted by Slendy View Post
This.

I do promise that I will go through dorian, Achro, but answer me this: am I wrong in claiming that Ratchet actually treated Banks differently from Riki? Am I wrong that the person who made the Ratchet/Banks -interactions look good was Banks, who initiated all the meaningful ones?
I don't think he did treat them differently. At least not from how I read it. Also I... don't understand how it is scummy for banks to have initiated the meaningful ones. He talked to literally everyone in much the same manner.
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Old 06-22-2015, 05:07 PM   #2475
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Re: The 2015 Mafia Championship: Game 6

Quote:
Originally Posted by dorian78 View Post
- #1506 road returns after long absence to find he’s in the lead. Asks Banks! (and Achro) where to focus his attention. Also seems like he’d rather make a case on Slendy or MSU instead of Banks. Unless Banks is his teammate why the hell would he ask Banks how to spend his time if he's about to make this enormous case on him?
banks and achro were his two fakepeeks
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