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Old 06-21-2015, 10:32 AM   #2251
road
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Re: The 2015 Mafia Championship: Game 6

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Originally Posted by fontisian View Post
Then Road's still the lynch. Everyone else has /something/ going for them. Road just has weird logic and thinking you or I could be scum.
Wtf is that. I dont remember you have argued once why you think im scum.- you just voted me - and then nothing?

Which reasons do you agree with?

do you think im scum for considering you or slendy are scum?
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Old 06-21-2015, 10:43 AM   #2252
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Re: The 2015 Mafia Championship: Game 6

A while ago, you asked for specific quotes to explain why Achro is not seer hunt clear. I never responded, because I was on a phone at first, then I forgot, and then I wanted to see if you would follow up. You didn't and went back to calling seer hunt clearing Achro, because you do not actually care about solving the game.

Further, your reads are so bad and rigid that, even if you are town, I have to kill you now rather than risk you scumsiding down the line.
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Old 06-21-2015, 10:49 AM   #2253
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Re: The 2015 Mafia Championship: Game 6

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Originally Posted by fontisian View Post
A while ago, you asked for specific quotes to explain why Achro is not seer hunt clear. I never responded, because I was on a phone at first, then I forgot, and then I wanted to see if you would follow up. You didn't and went back to calling seer hunt clearing Achro, because you do not actually care about solving the game.

Further, your reads are so bad and rigid that, even if you are town, I have to kill you now rather than risk you scumsiding down the line.
So you think that not following up on that question is not gamesolving and scummy. Im very well aware that no one else considers achro for SHC, therefore you not responding why he is NOT SHC doesnt change much in regards to solving the game.

But seems like some solid arguments lol.

Can you elaborate on which read you think are silly?

IS it that bhuber is villager? or Riki?
Or is it that Banks is possible scum?

My reads are probably not perfect. They could be bad. But that does not make me scum. And you talk about weird logic lol
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Old 06-21-2015, 10:59 AM   #2254
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Re: The 2015 Mafia Championship: Game 6

You think Achro is town because of the SHC. You think Slendy and I are plausible scum because reasons. You're reading Riki and bhuber as town for effort of all things, as if people sent to this thing wouldn't be capable of making a lot of confident posts when they need.
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Old 06-21-2015, 10:59 AM   #2255
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Re: The 2015 Mafia Championship: Game 6

Catching up on the overnight, part 1

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Originally Posted by TehBankertin View Post
He has played this game with the intent of living not with the intent of lynching wolves. I want you to tell me one person that you thought "man dorian really buried x" or "wow the fire in dorian to figure this game out was so good" same with ratchet he was passionate about his defense but everything else he didn't care about.

Dorian doesn't care who dies as long as its not him. He is a wolf. More to come later
1. That's totally how I'm used to playing the game. My site is so role/mechanic heavy and so info-light (no idea what kinds of roles are in the game, or how many, or even how many mafia there are) that the meta as town is totally "stay alive until at least day 3 or 4, because that's when there's finally going to be enough info available to start working on solving the game." I've tried so hard to adapt from that. Sorry if it's not good enough.

2. I think it's totally untrue that I don't care who dies. I said I wanted road or bhuber dead. Now that bhuber's back, he didn't take the tack I thought he would, I want him a little less dead than before, and am happy with my vote on road.

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Originally Posted by bhuber2010 View Post
I don't necessarily disagree. I actually thought that exact thing to myself (i.e. the part where he hasn't really made a case against any particular player).

The fact that he hasn't pushed anyone in that way is somewhat perturbing - I guess it would be nice to have some sort of meta with him to see if he actually constructed cases against players in the past (then it would be out of the ordinary for him to not really have done that here - and then conversely, just kind of gone with the flow and making up analysis here and there to keep scooting by).
I come from a culture where no one constructs cases the way they're made here. Not even close. I don't think me picking games from my site and then being accused of cherry-picking will help the matter. For whatever it's worth, at the start of this phase, I said I wanted bhuber and/or road dead. I made a case against bhuber, it just wasn't very big because he didn't have many posts before coming back. I decided lynching road would help me solve the game more than lynching bhuber would, which is enough to vote road when I think they're both scummy. Other people made the case against road, I agreed with it, I see no need to go make the same case myself.
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Old 06-21-2015, 11:03 AM   #2256
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Re: The 2015 Mafia Championship: Game 6

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Also, it would be pretty hilarious if that was genuinely a scum slip by dorian (the part where he said he wasnt playing amazing when I insinuated he would be having a good scum game).
View it however you wish. I meant that my scum game would be nowhere near as amazing as you think it would be if I were mafia, and that what you are seeing is poor-to-mediocre-at-best town play.

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The tinfoil in me thinks that dorian probably saw my post calling him out but didnt really feel like addressing it because he had just said he was going to bed
I did not. It was 2 AM. I posted, shut the computer, and went to bed. But tin foil away - it's part of the game.
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Old 06-21-2015, 11:04 AM   #2257
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Re: The 2015 Mafia Championship: Game 6

Hey Banks, I don't really care about who's lynched as long as I learn something from it and don't **** with the auto circle. As town in Dorian's position, I'd be all about not dying and just lynching everyone else at this point.
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Old 06-21-2015, 11:04 AM   #2258
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Re: The 2015 Mafia Championship: Game 6

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I don't know the team. I think that scummy people are scummy on their own.

I think some teams make more sense than others.
This is a huge cop-out of an answer.
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Old 06-21-2015, 11:07 AM   #2259
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Re: The 2015 Mafia Championship: Game 6

Dorian, don't you know that all scumteams are equal but some are more equal than others?
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Old 06-21-2015, 11:12 AM   #2260
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Re: The 2015 Mafia Championship: Game 6

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Originally Posted by fontisian View Post
You think Achro is town because of the SHC. You think Slendy and I are plausible scum because reasons. You're reading Riki and bhuber as town for effort of all things, as if people sent to this thing wouldn't be capable of making a lot of confident posts when they need.
Well that is one of the reasons

And you miss my point. Or dont read my posts. Or im bad at constructing my posts. It is not effort in itself that makes them villagery it is the way they use their time, their focuspoints and (for bhuber) his choice of strategy going in to d3
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Old 06-21-2015, 11:12 AM   #2261
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Re: The 2015 Mafia Championship: Game 6

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Come on guys. Bhuber is like so villager. I mean, if he was scum I cant see him trying so hard on questioning my role and reading me VT. This would probably be the easiest mislynch this game, if he was mafia.

Well that is, if we are not scum together, which ofc are obv to me.

Also that workload he is stating (and looking on timestamps and posts and reads seems genuine) having spend on this game would seem very unlikely for a scum (unless both scums was in the poe)

I'm a bit splitted about Banks, as his posting today is also quite villagery - i mean he keeps defending me.

@Riki, I will post some highlights of the case so you can see my thoughts. I still think Banks could be mafia, but I dont think the way he played d3 would be his default line as scum though.
So you're saying that you think bhuber is town, at least in part because you don't think he would do the amount of work he did unless both mafia are in the poe. Do you not think that both mafia are in the poe? Also, you never answered my question about who you thought the top 3 choices for teammates with Banks would be if he's mafia, instead waffling back and forth on if Banks even is mafia.
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Old 06-21-2015, 11:20 AM   #2262
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Re: The 2015 Mafia Championship: Game 6

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Originally Posted by dorian78 View Post
So you're saying that you think bhuber is town, at least in part because you don't think he would do the amount of work he did unless both mafia are in the poe. Do you not think that both mafia are in the poe? Also, you never answered my question about who you thought the top 3 choices for teammates with Banks would be if he's mafia, instead waffling back and forth on if Banks even is mafia.
As bhuber and I are in the poe, there is a big chance that mafia are not in the poe. Meh i see what you mean. i use that as a reason for townreading him, so im doing it upside down. But also townreading him before. Guess bhuber/you or bhuber/banks could be possible

I must have missed that. Or avoided it. because i think it is tough. From todays research i think it is likely you and him are a team. I guess him and Slendy or even him and Fonti is possible. But i really havent researched anything but him/you combi - which i found nothing that made it impossible
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Old 06-21-2015, 11:23 AM   #2263
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Re: The 2015 Mafia Championship: Game 6

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Good that you know I like to yell. 1) Why did red banks not hop on the cue train d1 he apparently thought he was the cop?

Why did red banks state he planned on voting ratchet over cue?

2) I'm actually quite well known for busing in forum mafia as scum. However not by anyone in THIS game unless they've read my other forum games where I have huge filters. Scum!Banks does one of the above instead of risking a side wagon on someone else.

3) Is this 100% based on road flipping scum? If he flips town what color am I?


If I flip town what color is road?
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Fonti can attest that I will do whatever I deem necessary to try to keep the cop alive or hop mafia missed what I missed. I also vary what I do. Sometimes its hard call them mafia weakly with bad reasoning that won't stick like I did with Yates game 1. Sometimes its hard defend them for contributions like in this game. Sometimes I will ignore them and use pure deflection.

I know the game well enough to know that our cop being dead at this point puts us in a spot we would prefer not to be in. Truth be told I'm mad at MSU for claiming when he did it was not needed and kind of a waste. He wasn't saving anyone really maybe mafia was onto him but still ratchet had a good chance of dying either way.

3)Can I ask why you put so much into associative reads? Especially pre-flip. You seem to be putting a lot of wait on "who is with road" do you think he is always wolf here?
1) You had played your D1 hard-defending cue. Which is a very reasonable, very Pro-Town looking strategy, if you are Mafia. ESPECIALLY if you Cop-read cue like I suspect you did.

It's not like you could've predicted during the first 34 hours of the D1 that I'm going to return 2 hours prior to the deadline, and 1 hour before EoD1 I'm going to start a wagon on Ratchet that actually gains momentum, with CUE of all people as the alternative for you.

You couldn't afford the backpedalling, and you couldn't foresee that you might be in a situation where you could WANT to backpedal.

2) I don't doubt this at all -- my impression of your "playertype" is exactly this. However, despite this being 2+2, you're not Monstrman, and you don't bus unnecessarily out of sheer paranoia. Most people take the convenient approach, and that includes not-bussing for as long as your buddies don't give you reason to bus them.

Most of D1 panned out quite decently for the Ratchet/road/Banks -Scumteam, after all.

3) You and road are the reddest Players on my list regardless of one another. (And yes, I see road flipping Mafia here in almost ALL the worlds -- the ones where he doesn't are inexplicable.)

The reasoning is very simple, but damning: road has his foot in his mouth BADLY with regards to Ratchet; and your excuse of Cop-reading Ratchet doesn't make the slightest bit of sense. But it's a superficially convincing enough excuse that I'm afraid people are hesitant to not give you a pass for it.

Associating you two with each other is not the reason I'm after you two, but it's a nice added bonus that I can explain the events of this game fluidly from the perspective of Ratchet/road/Banks -Scumteam:
Quote:
Originally Posted by Slendy View Post
Not gonna multiquote cause would be Too Painful but I'm gonna show what has happened in this game so far from the perspective of Red!Banks with teammates Ratchet and road.

-start of the game enthusiastically and well, with a convincing tone
-dominate threadflow for the most part
-things go swimmingly until EoD1, when buddy Ratchet gets SFD'd
-has played his cards right and can try to steer the Lynch away from Ratchet without incriminating himself; later makes up the excuse that he thought Ratchet was the Cop, though there is no real reasoning for anyone to think so based on D1
========
*N1, yells at (Ratchet and?) road for buddying him too much
*probably tells road to distance the two of them by giving him instructions for a case, which road almost entirely copy-pastes from the QT (you may note that the lingo used in road's case on Banks is nowhere to be seen in any of the other reads he's provided on us fellow players)
*considers cue a likely Seer, the Hit has the added benefit of maybe deflecting suspicion off of Ratchet (atleast with Town!fonti so eagerly breathing on cue's neck)
======
-D2, kind of circles around Ratchet but doesn't take any too definite stances and is content to let others do the questioning
-Attacks MSU in an attempt to deflect off of Ratchet; as noted earlier, the team is not keen on bussing Ratchet, especially if R got peeked.
-Stays away from the road-wagon, waits for road to start his push on Banks for the distance-ing. The attempt gets MSU-blocked.
====
*N2, woe is the life of the reds. Probably some yelling.
====
-D3, not super-relevant anymore. Either afk for the first time in the game or demoralized, or both.
-Update: successfully steers SOME momentum away from road. Whod'a thunk? Trying to WIFOM by making it seem that it would be TOO obvious in this situation to not try to bus one's own Scumbuddy?
(Added something to D3 now that more events have unfolded.)
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Old 06-21-2015, 11:33 AM   #2264
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Re: The 2015 Mafia Championship: Game 6

Catching up part 2

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The first post of dorians that is anything game solvey. He makes a huge post about how smartbomb is mafia. Tell me if anyone thinks he REALLY believes this is the case.
I believed it with about as much conviction as any town believes in a case they make on day 1. Which is to say, not a whole lot, but it was the best case I could find. How arrogant would someone have to be to say "I 100% believe my completely uninformed day 1 case on someone is right because I'm just that good."?

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Hmm I felt that his read on Smartbomb was kind of genuine and he believed it. But I find it weird that he just a few pages earlier writes that he does not like making strong reads on d1 and the puff, he finds this case on Smartbomb.
Which is scummier? Me not liking to make strong reads on day 1 but then making a case to justify my vote, or me voting with no reason at all? I had to vote, and voting without providing your reasons is just plain horrible play for town.
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Old 06-21-2015, 11:46 AM   #2265
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Re: The 2015 Mafia Championship: Game 6

Comparing dorian's and road's tones when they defend themselves in this close-to-autowin -situation is amusing; one's clearly green and doesn't try to make up anything, while the other is getting frustrated that people aren't reading his posts the way he wants them to, and is all about polishing everything.

Like, tone-reading isn't my strongest suit, but this seems striking to me. Really cool-headed by dorian if he's Mafia.
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Old 06-21-2015, 11:47 AM   #2266
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Re: The 2015 Mafia Championship: Game 6

Plus road and bhuber are pretty much the only people dorian can be partnered with.
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Old 06-21-2015, 11:55 AM   #2267
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Re: The 2015 Mafia Championship: Game 6

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As bhuber and I are in the poe, there is a big chance that mafia are not in the poe. Meh i see what you mean. i use that as a reason for townreading him, so im doing it upside down. But also townreading him before. Guess bhuber/you or bhuber/banks could be possible

I must have missed that. Or avoided it. because i think it is tough. From todays research i think it is likely you and him are a team. I guess him and Slendy or even him and Fonti is possible. But i really havent researched anything but him/you combi - which i found nothing that made it impossible
Not really so much upside-down as it is circular. "I think bhuber is town because I think think there's a big chance that mafia are not in the poe, but the reason I think there's a big chance of that is because I think bhuber is town." It's the kind of argument that makes the most sense coming from you if bhuber is your scumbuddy.

And I also find it odd to go from thinking bhuber/me is a tough scenario for you to consider to thinking it a likely one from literally one sentence to the next. I have a lot scenarios that I think are tough or unlikely, and people have made points in favor of them, and I've considered them further, but I don't just suddenly think they're likely. That's odd to me, given that the positions we're in are pretty similar.
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Old 06-21-2015, 12:00 PM   #2268
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Exclamation Vote Count

Votes from post 1743 to post 2267
Night in 7:59:57

---
VotesLynchVoters
4 road dorian78 (28), Riki (93), Slendy (76), fontisian (32)
2 dorian78 DocEspana (21), TehBankertin (116)
1 TehBankertin bhuber2010 (54)
2 not voting Achromatic (30), road (58)
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Old 06-21-2015, 12:04 PM   #2269
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Re: The 2015 Mafia Championship: Game 6

I honestly do think bhuber lynch tells us more. His nutso attack in bank actually says a lot since it literally has to only be a legit belief (and then we should take the bank suspicion mote seriously) or it is that he knew he is in the top 3 and his partner mafiaso is in the top 2. So killing him means the other mafia is almost definitely road or dorian.

The value of a red bhuber is incredible. And the value of a green bhuber is probably the same as mislynching anyone else, possibly a bit more useful.

But good god is the argument for lynching road pretty good. The guy can't get out of his own way logically.
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Old 06-21-2015, 12:11 PM   #2270
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Re: The 2015 Mafia Championship: Game 6

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Road does indeed fail both the road talking about ratchet and the ratchet talking about road tests.
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Originally Posted by DocEspana View Post
I honestly do think bhuber lynch tells us more. His nutso attack in bank actually says a lot since it literally has to only be a legit belief (and then we should take the bank suspicion mote seriously) or it is that he knew he is in the top 3 and his partner mafiaso is in the top 2. So killing him means the other mafia is almost definitely road or dorian.

The value of a red bhuber is incredible. And the value of a green bhuber is probably the same as mislynching anyone else, possibly a bit more useful.

But good god is the argument for lynching road pretty good. The guy can't get out of his own way logically.
The way I'd still describe the situation is, today we resolve the Rs (road>>>>>>>>>>>>Riki, clearly), tomorrow we resolve the Bs (Banks>>>bhuber for me aorn).

If road were to inexplicably flip Town, then Mafia!Riki's likelihood skyrockets.
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Old 06-21-2015, 12:12 PM   #2271
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Re: The 2015 Mafia Championship: Game 6

Also there's no need to info-Lynch at this point IMO when both road and Banks have been inexplicably red with regards to Ratchet.

But it's not a bad route to take information-wise, either.
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Old 06-21-2015, 12:22 PM   #2272
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Re: The 2015 Mafia Championship: Game 6

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The way I'd still describe the situation is, today we resolve the Rs (road>>>>>>>>>>>>Riki, clearly), tomorrow we resolve the Bs (Banks>>>bhuber for me aorn).

If road were to inexplicably flip Town, then Mafia!Riki's likelihood skyrockets.
Would much rather not forget about dorian. Also could not disagree with your banks and bhuber analysis more.
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Old 06-21-2015, 12:25 PM   #2273
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Re: The 2015 Mafia Championship: Game 6

And I suspect banks. Just. Bhuber played like a man with nothing left to lose.... because he is exactly that. It's an incredibly damning way to play historically. Butbhe could be right.

But whatever. To each their own on the analysis.
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Old 06-21-2015, 12:27 PM   #2274
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Re: The 2015 Mafia Championship: Game 6

You realize we only get two wrong guesses consecutively. I'm sure someone sat down and did the math. We have to go 1 for 3 and 2 for 4.
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Old 06-21-2015, 12:29 PM   #2275
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Re: The 2015 Mafia Championship: Game 6

We have two mislynches, and four lynches total, regardless of how you look at it.
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