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Old 06-21-2015, 07:38 AM   #2226
DocEspana
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Re: The 2015 Mafia Championship: Game 6

Quote:
Originally Posted by road View Post
What is this ?
It's my kill list in case people are curious. I don't say much. I watch and speak when I have something important to add to the interpretation. But I thought I'd give my input on where the rankings sit in my eyes right now.
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Old 06-21-2015, 07:40 AM   #2227
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Re: The 2015 Mafia Championship: Game 6

We ALWAYS resolve the Rs today, because 1) road's D2 especially with regards to Ratchet was GOD-AWFUL and REEKS of TMI, and
2) both Riki/road and Riki/dorian seem very implausible, thanks to Riki's D1- and D2-voting.

Banks STILL is quite plausibly paired with road, the crux of the matter is very simple: [i]that post by Ratchet DOESN'T give sufficiently strong Cop-vibes. If Banks thought Ratchet was a likely Cop based on that post (not actually plausible), THEN HIS COPDAR MUST'VE BEEN SO FINE-TUNED THAT CUE WAS EVEN HIGHER on his list of possible Cops! Peeks aside, cue consistently left implications of dying soon, having "power" and he intentionally played in an odd manner that would guarantee some degree of suspicion on him.
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Old 06-21-2015, 07:41 AM   #2228
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Re: The 2015 Mafia Championship: Game 6

I know I missed some questions/responses to me, atleast by Banks, but I'm busy so that'll have to wait a moment, for the moment I just wanted to reiterate the above before it gets forgotten.
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Old 06-21-2015, 07:44 AM   #2229
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Re: The 2015 Mafia Championship: Game 6

One response: Banks said that if he was Mafia, Ratchet would always be coached to counterclaiming.

Well, that is clearly what road thought as well, since in his last post D2 he URGED RATCHET TO COUNTERCLAIM. Ratchet never did, probably because he's not familiar with this types of Rounds, and we already saw D1 he apparently gets somewhat frozen under pressure. Might've not realized claiming guilty!Achro would've been a great defense for him, even if his EoD1 lacked any Coptells.
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Old 06-21-2015, 07:47 AM   #2230
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Re: The 2015 Mafia Championship: Game 6

Quote:
Originally Posted by DocEspana View Post
It's my kill list in case people are curious. I don't say much. I watch and speak when I have something important to add to the interpretation. But I thought I'd give my input on where the rankings sit in my eyes right now.
I see. It makes sense of you to actually fully write all of your thoughts at some point today, as you will get killed tonight.

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Originally Posted by Slendy View Post
We ALWAYS resolve the Rs today, because 1) road's D2 especially with regards to Ratchet was GOD-AWFUL and REEKS of TMI, and
2) both Riki/road and Riki/dorian seem very implausible, thanks to Riki's D1- and D2-voting.

Banks STILL is quite plausibly paired with road, the crux of the matter is very simple: [i]that post by Ratchet DOESN'T give sufficiently strong Cop-vibes. If Banks thought Ratchet was a likely Cop based on that post (not actually plausible), THEN HIS COPDAR MUST'VE BEEN SO FINE-TUNED THAT CUE WAS EVEN HIGHER on his list of possible Cops! Peeks aside, cue consistently left implications of dying soon, having "power" and he intentionally played in an odd manner that would guarantee some degree of suspicion on him.
Can you elaborate on this. Maybe I missed something, but i thought it was Ratchet-spew on d1 and my lack of activity on d1/d2 that makes it a good case on me?

How did my content d2 with regards to ratchet seem scummy?

Or have you still not understood my pov with the first posts of d2? when i focused on the wagons that didnt end up being wagons, after having been the first to consider lynching ratchet for resolving wagons?
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Old 06-21-2015, 07:49 AM   #2231
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Re: The 2015 Mafia Championship: Game 6

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Originally Posted by Slendy View Post
One response: Banks said that if he was Mafia, Ratchet would always be coached to counterclaiming.

Well, that is clearly what road thought as well, since in his last post D2 he URGED RATCHET TO COUNTERCLAIM. Ratchet never did, probably because he's not familiar with this types of Rounds, and we already saw D1 he apparently gets somewhat frozen under pressure. Might've not realized claiming guilty!Achro would've been a great defense for him, even if his EoD1 lacked any Coptells.
please come on. with that tunnel, why dont you just quote the three posts were i claimed wolf - i guess you could find them as well
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Old 06-21-2015, 07:50 AM   #2232
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Re: The 2015 Mafia Championship: Game 6

You're the one who never responded to me, road.

You can't deny what actually happened in the Thread -- you CAN try to provide Town!motivation for it, but you haven't.
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Old 06-21-2015, 07:52 AM   #2233
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Re: The 2015 Mafia Championship: Game 6

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Originally Posted by Slendy View Post
If Banks thought Ratchet was a likely Cop based on that post (not actually plausible)
Quote:
Originally Posted by Slendy View Post
If Banks thought Ratchet was a likely Cop based on that post (not actually plausible)
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Originally Posted by Slendy View Post
If Banks thought Ratchet was a likely Cop based on that post (not actually plausible)
Thisthisthis.
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Old 06-21-2015, 08:00 AM   #2234
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Re: The 2015 Mafia Championship: Game 6

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Originally Posted by Slendy View Post
You're the one who never responded to me, road.

You can't deny what actually happened in the Thread -- you CAN try to provide Town!motivation for it, but you haven't.
Let me just quote what i wrote
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Old 06-21-2015, 08:01 AM   #2235
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Exclamation Vote Count

Votes from post 1743 to post 2234
Night in 11:59:54

---
VotesLynchVoters
4 road dorian78 (22), Riki (93), Slendy (67), fontisian (26)
2 dorian78 DocEspana (21), TehBankertin (116)
1 TehBankertin bhuber2010 (54)
2 not voting Achromatic (30), road (48)
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Old 06-21-2015, 08:05 AM   #2236
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Re: The 2015 Mafia Championship: Game 6

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Originally Posted by road View Post
Hmm. I think it is naturally. I mean, when i can live with people in wagons, i mean i dont have any kind of townread on them. As you quoted in the post above, i didnt have any real read on fonti, riki and ratchet. I later got a villagerread on fonti (which you quoted too) - therefore leaving ratchet and riki as acceptable (however not preferred) lynches. I cant see what you find weird there?

In the 2nd quote I actually asks what people think about resolving wagons, when the wolves resolved the third wagon? It is a situation I dont recall having been in before ,therefore finding it weird. It is not like I'm saying "we shouldnt lynch Ratchet". I think you are overthinking this.

I never states that Ratchet is clear. My arguments for wanting to focus on the 4 ppl is that they were ALL wagons early on but NONE of them ended up being wagons. Wouldnt you think this leaves at least 1 scum there?

last quote: lol tunnelling
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Originally Posted by road View Post
1) I didnt forget about ratchet. I jsut had limited time and therefore not focusing on him. I think I even write that in some post lol. also i dont remeber being online at the same time as Ratchet. I think you would a lot of ppl I dont really interact with/talk about in more than some few lines.

2) bhuber have been one of the ppl i actually spend most time reading. I had him as scum d1 but reading up on him during the early stages of d2 i changed my read on him to villagery. I assume i did argue for that.

3) Yes i forgot dorian. I dont think you can deduce anything from that - it is probably neutral for me, because I have a tendency to forget different things lol. Also i do think i remember having discussed dorian on d1/d2 and some of his thoughts.
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Bull****. You first go "okay cue-flip resolves that thing [Ratchet]" then you LEAVE OUT THE MOST IMPORTANT D1-WAGON from your "pool of 4" -wagons.

What the hell, if you are Town?
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Originally Posted by road View Post
My purpose of this post was to:

1) Ask what other ppl thought of resolving wagons, in this exact situation. Normally it would be standard but i think that cue (the last wagon and also the one saving Ratchet) being killed changes a lot.
2) Making sure that lynching Ratchet would actually serve a purpose

I dont see why this is weird at all. If we wont to infolynch (which is often the case d2), we shoould make sure to get some info. Point out where I try to assume cue lynch means ratchet is villager?
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NO! my focus with that post was on the FORMER wagons. Not the actually eod wagons. I argued why that was important and I STILL think it is. Ratchet was not a wagon earlier therefore i left him out of the ppl i would focus on. (well i ended up doing like no work on those ppl in the end, but hat is just due to me not having enough time)
This shows my thoughtprocess.

1. I ask other ppl what they think of resolving wagons in this rare scenario - this is imho gamesolving.
2. i focus on the earlier wagons, because i find ratchet being scum is less likely with the cue-kill ,therefore i expect someone of those wagons to be scum (because none of them ended up being wagons). Maybe you think Ratchet would the most obv guy to focus on. Well i didnt.
3. I still dont get what you think are so weird
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Old 06-21-2015, 08:10 AM   #2237
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Re: The 2015 Mafia Championship: Game 6

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Originally Posted by bhuber2010 View Post
riki - bhuber
fonisian - doc
TehBankertin - riki
achro - no peek
road - banks

dorian78 - did you leave a clear peek?
Slendy - did you leave a clear peek?

Still havent heard from these two but for the sake of discussion, I'll allude to my thoughts now (I have slendy as a pretty hard town lean so I am not as concerned about him although I still think it would be useful to know 100% if either of them left explicit peeks).

Since we know that cue did not leave an explicit peek, it means the mafia took a calculated risk in killing him over a number of players that DID leave explicit peeks. This means that their peeks were wrong or the mafia didnt not believe them enough to glean that that person was indeed the real cop.

A level 0 read would therefore be that the following people look bad/didnt have believable cop cover IF indeed their claims were correct: riki, tehbankertin, and roads.

I know riki's claim was correct, so the wolves either didnt believe it or riki is scum.

TehBankertin not dying alludes to the fact that his peek was wrong, or he is mafia.

Roads peek was wrong, or he is mafia.

____


I'll get back to this point in a second.
Btw i think this way of thinking is usually towny. I did that myself in game 3, but i also got tricked by it. From my pov that game Banks just had to be scum, which he was not. It was like the only scumthing i had on him, but enough that i would probably have lynched him in a f3..

My point here is that even though the logic is right, the scum could have had some particular observations, metareads, endgame thoughts whatever, so we can be wrong (in my mind achro is close to shc, so i totally back this up) in putting too much weight in this. however i agree this implicates the four of us having put out clear peeks.
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Old 06-21-2015, 08:49 AM   #2238
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Re: The 2015 Mafia Championship: Game 6

Quote:
In the 2nd quote I actually asks what people think about resolving wagons, when the wolves resolved the third wagon? It is a situation I dont recall having been in before ,therefore finding it weird. It is not like I'm saying "we shouldnt lynch Ratchet". I think you are overthinking this.

I never states that Ratchet is clear. My arguments for wanting to focus on the 4 ppl is that they were ALL wagons early on but NONE of them ended up being wagons. Wouldnt you think this leaves at least 1 scum there?
10 minutes prior to EoD1 the Votes were tied at 3-3-3-3 between SmartBomb, Ratchet, Slendy and cue.

The only wagon that ever got "resolved" was cue. In your D2-posts you completely brush Ratchet aside when no Townie in this game ever did that, because that was the single most important wagon D1 for analysis (and would've been that even if he flipped Town!).

Better yet, you use the resolving of the cue-wagon as justification for brushing aside Ratchet. You don't "inquire" people about that; you start D2 by asking "isn't this right?" then you don't pursue that anymore.

You had an agenda and it's plain as day. The bolded in the quote above is you yourself admitting that, using indirect wording.

You also reveal that you haven't read EoD1 yourself (atleast not with gamesolving-intent) yet you try to spin the events of EoD1 into something that's convenient for your agenda.
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Old 06-21-2015, 08:50 AM   #2239
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Re: The 2015 Mafia Championship: Game 6

bhuber probably Town based on today because he legit DID seem to end up going in loops after the exhausting reread-marathon, btw. As Scum that reread-marathon would've just lead to him reaching the logical conclusion he wanted his narrative to reach; as Town he ends up confusing himself due to exhaustion. CLEAR gamesolving intent there, and probably Town based on that detail.
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Old 06-21-2015, 08:56 AM   #2240
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Re: The 2015 Mafia Championship: Game 6

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Originally Posted by road View Post
I see. It makes sense of you to actually fully write all of your thoughts at some point today, as you will get killed tonight.



Can you elaborate on this. Maybe I missed something, but i thought it was Ratchet-spew on d1 and my lack of activity on d1/d2 that makes it a good case on me?

How did my content d2 with regards to ratchet seem scummy?

Or have you still not understood my pov with the first posts of d2? when i focused on the wagons that didnt end up being wagons, after having been the first to consider lynching ratchet for resolving wagons?
Quote:
Originally Posted by road View Post
This shows my thoughtprocess.

1. I ask other ppl what they think of resolving wagons in this rare scenario - this is imho gamesolving.
2. i focus on the earlier wagons, because i find ratchet being scum is less likely with the cue-kill ,therefore i expect someone of those wagons to be scum (because none of them ended up being wagons). Maybe you think Ratchet would the most obv guy to focus on. Well i didnt.
3. I still dont get what you think are so weird
Both bolded and underlined bits are describing the same post made by road.

Nice slip of the narrative there, bud.
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Old 06-21-2015, 08:58 AM   #2241
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Re: The 2015 Mafia Championship: Game 6

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Originally Posted by Slendy View Post
10 minutes prior to EoD1 the Votes were tied at 3-3-3-3 between SmartBomb, Ratchet, Slendy and cue.

The only wagon that ever got "resolved" was cue. In your D2-posts you completely brush Ratchet aside when no Townie in this game ever did that, because that was the single most important wagon D1 for analysis (and would've been that even if he flipped Town!).

Better yet, you use the resolving of the cue-wagon as justification for brushing aside Ratchet. You don't "inquire" people about that; you start D2 by asking "isn't this right?" then you don't pursue that anymore.

You had an agenda and it's plain as day. The bolded in the quote above is you yourself admitting that, using indirect wording.

You also reveal that you haven't read EoD1 yourself (atleast not with gamesolving-intent) yet you try to spin the events of EoD1 into something that's convenient for your agenda.
It's pretty obvious road started D2 with a clear opinion on what happened EoD1 without actually having read/understood what happened in the Thread.
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Old 06-21-2015, 09:19 AM   #2242
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Re: The 2015 Mafia Championship: Game 6

I really fear i just dont understand you posts. I mean, i really dont follow your train of thoughts.

1) Do you think scum!road would start out the day with a strategy that focused around getting no one to discuss Ratchet?
If you think that do you think scum!road would pursue that strategy but still start out with asking about Ratchet (should he be resolved, what info does town gets out of this, and what was the case actually on ratchet?)

2) When you ask people a question wouldnt you normally wait for some one to answer/comment on it, before taking actions on it?

3) to #2240 -> you actually havent realized I had two points in my post that we are discussing?

Anyways THIS discussion is going in loops and maybe I just dont get what you mean. Apparently my train of thought are very illogical to you. Well, I dont think i can frame my thoughts differently so you can understand MY logic behind it.

Seems like such a tunnel to me. And a strategy i would assume scums would use.
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Old 06-21-2015, 10:01 AM   #2243
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Exclamation Vote Count

Votes from post 1743 to post 2242
Night in 9:59:54

---
VotesLynchVoters
4 road dorian78 (22), Riki (93), Slendy (71), fontisian (26)
2 dorian78 DocEspana (21), TehBankertin (116)
1 TehBankertin bhuber2010 (54)
2 not voting Achromatic (30), road (51)
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Old 06-21-2015, 10:01 AM   #2244
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Re: The 2015 Mafia Championship: Game 6

Quote:
Originally Posted by Slendy View Post
10 minutes prior to EoD1 the Votes were tied at 3-3-3-3 between SmartBomb, Ratchet, Slendy and cue.

The only wagon that ever got "resolved" was cue. In your D2-posts you completely brush Ratchet aside when no Townie in this game ever did that, because that was the single most important wagon D1 for analysis (and would've been that even if he flipped Town!).

Better yet, you use the resolving of the cue-wagon as justification for brushing aside Ratchet. You don't "inquire" people about that; you start D2 by asking "isn't this right?" then you don't pursue that anymore.

You had an agenda and it's plain as day. The bolded in the quote above is you yourself admitting that, using indirect wording.

You also reveal that you haven't read EoD1 yourself (atleast not with gamesolving-intent) yet you try to spin the events of EoD1 into something that's convenient for your agenda.
Anyone else noticing the TMI or am I just being paranoid?
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Old 06-21-2015, 10:04 AM   #2245
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Re: The 2015 Mafia Championship: Game 6

Also, doc/slendy/whoever is online, i would appreciate if you could comment on my case on Banks. Even though I am not that certain anymore, because he really played in a way late d2/d3 I wouldnt have predicted if he was scum, I still think it is something, and I still think he could easily be scum (especially because I have a hard time finding scumteams).

If it is bull**** feel free to say so. I dont care about that. I just dont want to be wrong
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Old 06-21-2015, 10:15 AM   #2246
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Re: The 2015 Mafia Championship: Game 6

I don't really care about the lynch toDay. It's not as important as completing the auto circle, which we're one clear away from. The Road lynch will probably help with that and accordingly remains the best lynch. I'm still vaguely uncomfortable with Achromatic, as I remember him bussing /a lot/ in his one scum game with me. If I have the time, I'll be reading up on that today.

I'll add that a Riki/Dorian pairing is very unlikely based on the Day 1 vote patterns. Scum!Riki would not unvote and started condemning the MSU wagon (which had Ratchet on it) only to join another town wagon with his other partner. So, when Banks goes for Dorian, I'm not sure who he plausibly has as a teammate.
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Old 06-21-2015, 10:23 AM   #2247
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Re: The 2015 Mafia Championship: Game 6

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I don't really care about the lynch toDay. It's not as important as completing the auto circle, which we're one clear away from. The Road lynch will probably help with that and accordingly remains the best lynch. I'm still vaguely uncomfortable with Achromatic, as I remember him bussing /a lot/ in his one scum game with me. If I have the time, I'll be reading up on that today.

I'll add that a Riki/Dorian pairing is very unlikely based on the Day 1 vote patterns. Scum!Riki would not unvote and started condemning the MSU wagon (which had Ratchet on it) only to join another town wagon with his other partner. So, when Banks goes for Dorian, I'm not sure who he plausibly has as a teammate.
Getting the auto circle means we don't stop playing the game.

Getting the Scum Lynched as fast as possible is always the best, for the simple reason that each time a Lynch is attempted on them, there's one Townie less to help out when a Mislynch happens in between.

And the less there's unified Townies, the less certain it is that the remaining Scum doesn't swindle their way out to victory, no matter how 'auto' the circle should be. In final three, one weak link is enough.

So we strive for the correct Lynch order, each Phase.
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Old 06-21-2015, 10:25 AM   #2248
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Re: The 2015 Mafia Championship: Game 6

Then Road's still the lynch. Everyone else has /something/ going for them. Road just has weird logic and thinking you or I could be scum.
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Old 06-21-2015, 10:25 AM   #2249
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Re: The 2015 Mafia Championship: Game 6

Not sure if I feel like continuing the argument with road it feels like I'm just wasting Threadspace answering Mafia!road's "wah you caught me for the wrong reasons" -questions.
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Old 06-21-2015, 10:31 AM   #2250
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Re: The 2015 Mafia Championship: Game 6

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Originally Posted by Slendy View Post
Getting the auto circle means we don't stop playing the game.

Getting the Scum Lynched as fast as possible is always the best, for the simple reason that each time a Lynch is attempted on them, there's one Townie less to help out when a Mislynch happens in between.

And the less there's unified Townies, the less certain it is that the remaining Scum doesn't swindle their way out to victory, no matter how 'auto' the circle should be. In final three, one weak link is enough.

So we strive for the correct Lynch order, each Phase.
Quote:
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Not sure if I feel like continuing the argument with road it feels like I'm just wasting Threadspace answering Mafia!road's "wah you caught me for the wrong reasons" -questions.
Unless you are scum I feel like you have stopped playing the game. Either you just cant see a world where im not scum or you a mafia. Because you dont read my posts.
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