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Old 06-21-2015, 04:41 AM   #2176
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Re: The 2015 Mafia Championship: Game 6

Banker - Is my filter short? I have a lot of posts!
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Old 06-21-2015, 04:44 AM   #2177
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Re: The 2015 Mafia Championship: Game 6

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Im sure this was addressed at one point but who was it that had said they had played with Rachet at some point?
i don't think anyone here has played with ratchet before

i have played with some people from his forum before though and i briefly looked at one of his games before this game started
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Old 06-21-2015, 04:54 AM   #2178
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Re: The 2015 Mafia Championship: Game 6

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After filtering his posts, its become pretty apparent that most of whom he pushed were VT's - the only remaining players that he pushed were:

1) slendy
2) achromatic

He basically was super accusatory of both these players - going so far as to construct cases against both of them - he also stated they were the main beneficiaries of the cue kill.

This bodes poorly (in a way) for those of you whom he gave town reads - basically I think its plausible, perhaps even probable, that he gave town reads to BOTH of his mafia brothers.

I was trying to pay particular attention to whom Rachet was interacting - the people that he interacted the least with were: riki, banks, dorian, font and road. The first 4 of which he gave VT leans - the didnt mention road much but the few times he did, they were generally in a negative light.

So it goes without saying that I feel that at least one, and probably both of his mafia brethren received VT leans from him.
i feel like this is kind of missing context

ratchet was probably in anti-spew for all of day 2, and he went after slendy/msu/achro who were all people that voted him on d1 so that their extra interactions on d2 wouldn't mean much since they'd already be kind of cleared from d1

he basically didn't really talk about anyone else on d2 except for mentioning his townreads once or twice

he had road at null for most of the game iirc
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Old 06-21-2015, 05:02 AM   #2179
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Re: The 2015 Mafia Championship: Game 6

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This is all fascinating, and I wish I'd thought to go back and look at it sooner. I'm just not used to this kind of info being the prime factor in who is chosen for the nightkill. I think it is also worth looking at from not-bhuber's perspective, and so I double-checked. I don't remember Slendy leaving a clear peek, and if he did, it was with a different word, cause his filter says he first used the word "peek" on day 2. Like someone else mentioned, we know fonti was right, and so I'm leaving her out of the scenarios.

If the team is road/bhuber, they knew Riki was wrong, and they didn't believe Banks. This team is probably also having little to no communication on N1, so I can believe them coming to a choice that doesn't fit what everyone here seems to look for.

If the team is road/Banks, they didn't believe Riki.

If the team is Riki/bhuber, they didn't believe road.

The other teams (Riki/road, Riki/Banks, and bhuber/Banks) all neatly solve everything from this angle (except fonti, who's a constant outlier in every scenario). These are all teams I haven't considered much, and this fact tells me I should start considering them more seriously.
i mean the fact that fonti's peek exists means it's not neatly solved from any angle*, you can't really just dismiss it as an outlier

*unless you think fonti is mafia, i personally think that's pretty unlikely
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Old 06-21-2015, 05:11 AM   #2180
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Re: The 2015 Mafia Championship: Game 6

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Ive mostly ignored slendy for a while now primarily because he came #hard at rachet on d1 and again on d2 (prior to any sort of cop claim).

Its possible I am giving him way too much credit for a bus but I'll re-evaluate him AFTER, riki/banks if I am still unable to point a firm finger at either one of them.

(same goes for achro really - I may be giving his rachet vote on d1 too much credit - and thus am ignoring him for far too long but I think objectively speaking - its wiser to look at/give more face time to the people that actually voted smart vs the people who actually voted rachet).
well it's not only that he went hard at ratchet on d1, he came into the thread and started the ratchet wagon (along with achro) when ratchet previously had no votes

also, closer to end of day, he started talking about how smartbomb's posting wasn't very good either, and was considering switching to smartbomb, but didn't actually switch, and smartbomb was town, which seems pretty pointless and counterintuitive regardless of what mafia!slendy's plan is with bussing his teammate in mafia!ratchet

i've also just liked all of his posts since then and i think he's mafia here basically never, and achro pretty close to never as well

fonti i might reevaluate at like lylo but i think she's pretty unlikely to be mafia as well
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Old 06-21-2015, 05:16 AM   #2181
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Re: The 2015 Mafia Championship: Game 6

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Originally Posted by TehBankertin View Post
road you around?
I am now.

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Originally Posted by Achromatic View Post
I think the fact today that stands out to me most is that road has not placed his vote. He is the only person aside from me who has not placed his vote. That's telling to me.

By the way I read your Banker theory bhuber but strongly disagree with the logic behind it. I didn't let Banker sideswipe you, but I think your logic is unsound mostly because proof is the pudding. Our glorious cop didn't peek. There was never a certainty that the real cop would peek, so your meta can probably be safely tucked away. All a villager has to do to correctly peek is to win the 75% chance lottery. If scum were to use that for cop hunting they would be very stupid.
I'm not used to vote early on.
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Old 06-21-2015, 05:23 AM   #2182
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Re: The 2015 Mafia Championship: Game 6

Come on guys. Bhuber is like so villager. I mean, if he was scum I cant see him trying so hard on questioning my role and reading me VT. This would probably be the easiest mislynch this game, if he was mafia.

Well that is, if we are not scum together, which ofc are obv to me.

Also that workload he is stating (and looking on timestamps and posts and reads seems genuine) having spend on this game would seem very unlikely for a scum (unless both scums was in the poe)

I'm a bit splitted about Banks, as his posting today is also quite villagery - i mean he keeps defending me.

@Riki, I will post some highlights of the case so you can see my thoughts. I still think Banks could be mafia, but I dont think the way he played d3 would be his default line as scum though.
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Old 06-21-2015, 05:23 AM   #2183
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Re: The 2015 Mafia Championship: Game 6

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Originally Posted by Achromatic View Post
Banker - Is my filter short? I have a lot of posts!
Its very short. you think its not?
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Old 06-21-2015, 05:25 AM   #2184
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Re: The 2015 Mafia Championship: Game 6

I-is a filter what it means when you isolate all of my posts? Because I have like 170 posts <_<
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Old 06-21-2015, 05:30 AM   #2185
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Re: The 2015 Mafia Championship: Game 6

i mean i personally know that a dorian/me team isn't possible, since like, i know that i'm not mafia

but i kind of think that out of all of the possible teams of people in the poe, a team of dorian/me would be the least likely

like i was voting him for a good amount of time before eod, i think i said at least twice during eod that dorian's wagon not getting any votes was sketchy

and i spent a good amount of early d1 going at him for what i still think was a fail in logic, which i only backed down from because it didn't seem like anyone was agreeing with me

and also something that is possibly noteworthy is that ratchet also spent a good amount of time arguing with me about the above thing with dorian
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Old 06-21-2015, 05:32 AM   #2186
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Re: The 2015 Mafia Championship: Game 6

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Originally Posted by road View Post
Come on guys. Bhuber is like so villager. I mean, if he was scum I cant see him trying so hard on questioning my role and reading me VT. This would probably be the easiest mislynch this game, if he was mafia.

Well that is, if we are not scum together, which ofc are obv to me.

Also that workload he is stating (and looking on timestamps and posts and reads seems genuine) having spend on this game would seem very unlikely for a scum (unless both scums was in the poe)

I'm a bit splitted about Banks, as his posting today is also quite villagery - i mean he keeps defending me.

@Riki, I will post some highlights of the case so you can see my thoughts. I still think Banks could be mafia, but I dont think the way he played d3 would be his default line as scum though.
who do you think is the mafia team then?

dorian/?
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Old 06-21-2015, 05:34 AM   #2187
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Re: The 2015 Mafia Championship: Game 6

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I-is a filter what it means when you isolate all of my posts? Because I have like 170 posts <_<
yeah it's pretty short imo
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Old 06-21-2015, 05:35 AM   #2188
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Re: The 2015 Mafia Championship: Game 6

You know jokes like this are how we all laugh until I post 300 times between now and deadline about how banker and riki are suddenly obvious scum fiends.

THEN WHO SHALL BE LAUGHING.
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Old 06-21-2015, 05:40 AM   #2189
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Re: The 2015 Mafia Championship: Game 6

this entire thing about making reads on people based on their reads are (like town/mafia/etc.) and not their actual reasoning seems kind of exploitable and is just weird to me

idk
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Old 06-21-2015, 05:41 AM   #2190
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Re: The 2015 Mafia Championship: Game 6

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Originally Posted by Achromatic View Post
You know jokes like this are how we all laugh until I post 300 times between now and deadline about how banker and riki are suddenly obvious scum fiends.

THEN WHO SHALL BE LAUGHING.
probably the actual mafia team
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Old 06-21-2015, 06:01 AM   #2191
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Exclamation Vote Count

Votes from post 1743 to post 2190
Night in 13:59:53

---
VotesLynchVoters
4 road dorian78 (22), Riki (93), Slendy (61), fontisian (26)
2 dorian78 DocEspana (18), TehBankertin (102)
1 TehBankertin bhuber2010 (54)
2 not voting Achromatic (30), road (28)
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Old 06-21-2015, 06:09 AM   #2192
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Re: The 2015 Mafia Championship: Game 6

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MSU/Ratchet. I dont think you two will end up as wagons. I'm quite sure I have found a scum. And even though i have to bust my cover, I'm quite sure this is the best timing - I would have liked to pressure him before presenting the case, but as i'm not having that much time and he havent been online since i got online, i'm just going to post it, and let others comment on it. I'm prolly quite out of sync with this d2, so i could be missing something, but then i expect ppl to comment on why i'm wrong. But really, I'm not wrong. I feel as certain as I have been about any scumread lately

I believe Banks is scum

I believe he is scum because of the following reasons:

- He is showing some general wolf tendencies
-- a lack of progression in reads
-- Doing some awkward work
-- simulating being active and productive, but really not contributing with that much
-- showing a bit of double standards

The EOD d1
-- His votingpattern
-- Him not really keeping up his cop-cover (at least in the way i would assume he would do)

Does not look like the game 3 we played together
And my personal focus

--He fakes a lot of interest in wanting to interact with me, but not really doing it.

And yes. This is not something i usually do, but Im certain enough, and i know i dont have much to lose (well i could be wrong and that would suck, but the case is important nevertheless)

I'm going to start multiquoting to show my thoughts
I started the "lack of progression in reads" just after this case. Didnt finish it, but will skip it for now.

I will pick out some examples (maybe the example is the only thing, but just what i remember

"doing some awkward work": https://forumserver.twoplustwo.com/sh...postcount=1335

I thought this was a weird timing, also because he earlier stated that it took a long time to work out. I mean, was this the thing that were the most important thing to do at that time? What about analyzing the eod instead fx?

"simulating being active and productive, but really not contributing with that much" + "showing a bit of double standards"

I will put them together here for the purpose of allocating my time.
But this: https://forumserver.twoplustwo.com/sh...postcount=1410 - i dont remember having read a real case from Banks this game?

[important note: this is from after my case, but an example of the same]:
https://forumserver.twoplustwo.com/sh...postcount=1648
Banks wanting ppl to read spew and are stating more than once that he had read himself and will post it at some time - but i dont think he ever gets to post real spewanalysis of Ratchet?

"Voting-pattern eod d1"
Actually when rereading I dont think his eod voting pattern is that scummy unless the exact scumteam is Ratchet/Banks/Slendy.
But still voting Smartbomb which is 5 to 4 vs a scum is something. Banks had been mating cue up so much during the day that he would never be able to explain a vote on him. So that was not really a possibility.

Anyways I think you have analyzed that eod. But this is the progression [links]:

- 10 minutes to eod
- 5 minutes to eod
- 2 minutes to eod

Honestly i dont think the eod is as scumym as i first thought. I mean if he was scum with ratchet he would probably try to get others to vote smartbomb. He is only stating he doesnt like the wagons. I dont see that many emotions i nregards to get ppl to vote for Bomb. But ofc if he is town, he cant be sure of anything so probably wouldnt dare to try that much.

Also it is intersting to note that he states he would rather lynch ratchet over cue ->
but he is saying today that he thought Ratchet could be the cop. This is weird to me. I mean, I cant see the point of it if they were scum together, but seems illogical too as a villager unless he is lying about seeing ratchet as possible cop on d1.

He doesnt keep up his seer cover:
I would expect Seer!Banks to tell villapeek!Riki to vote with him, when he apprantly thinks that two wagons are aids (ratchet and cue) and the last is to be prefered. But he doesnt do that. I would also expect him to ask his peek (whch is a good player) what his thoughts are on best lynch. I mean, he knows riki is villager therefore would it makes sense to get some of his thoughts on optimal lynch.

Im going to post it now so you can respond to it while im still here.. and then i will finish it meanwhile
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Old 06-21-2015, 06:13 AM   #2193
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Re: The 2015 Mafia Championship: Game 6

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Originally Posted by Riki View Post
who do you think is the mafia team then?

dorian/?
I honestly dont know. and it annoys me. I mean, I dont think you are scum, i dont think bhuber is scum and i dont think achro is scum.
I have stated I think the last two scum is between Banks, Fonti, Dorian and Slendy. I havent really read the thread while considering possible/not possible scum teams of them yet.

If you get what I mean.

I think it is weird Slendy and fonti not geting more attention, but I know I wont be able to consider them in depth today and I'm afraid it would only make the thread even more confusing as of now
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Old 06-21-2015, 06:14 AM   #2194
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Re: The 2015 Mafia Championship: Game 6

But I have to look through the thread to see if Banks/dorian/ratchet is possible. This would probably be the team I find most likely atm
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Old 06-21-2015, 06:17 AM   #2195
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Re: The 2015 Mafia Championship: Game 6

But I hate being out of sync. I have read the latest posts, but i havent really read the achro, slendy, ratchet discussion earlier and didnt fulyl read all of msus post. and i hate it, but that is the reality. therefore i dont trust my own reads 100p and could be wrong. I just feel quite comfortable with bhuber being villager, and somehow i still think achro is shc (at least in my mind, because i havent seen any cue posts where he is really ambigious about that). And ye, your d3 is just so unlikely as scum. Maybe you are, but i dont think i would consider you before f5/f3 if that is the case - well i would if someone posts a case on you ofc..
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Old 06-21-2015, 06:18 AM   #2196
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Re: The 2015 Mafia Championship: Game 6

Im not that comfortable about Banks being scum, but now i have shown my thoughts on why i have him on my scumlist. Just wouldnt expect scum!banks to take this line today so this makes me question my case
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Old 06-21-2015, 06:21 AM   #2197
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Re: The 2015 Mafia Championship: Game 6

Quote:
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I-is a filter what it means when you isolate all of my posts? Because I have like 170 posts <_<
170 posts is like 1 day.

Road glad you're around
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Old 06-21-2015, 06:25 AM   #2198
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Re: The 2015 Mafia Championship: Game 6

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Originally Posted by TehBankertin View Post
I think you're playing really soft this game. Don't consider my push away from you a town read but a "give him some space read" I don't forget and even if you don't like the way I play or play a different way I've looked at your filter from game 2 and this game is very different. I mean this as a compliment that you played very well in that game and if you're town this game I'm not seeing it. Please step it up losing isn't an option.

dorian

Work has been really busy since I got here cause the housekeeping department are terrible. Trying to get my head into the game but I'm moderately out of it.

ROAD ON NOTICE FOR BEING SOFT AF TOO.
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I'm headed to work ideally it wont be awful so I can post.

Road when you're around lets talk.

Same with fonti.

Also I'll say this do your own reread of the night 1 kill and decide who you think is SHC from it don't just take the words of people posting 3 of the 11 of us are wolves.
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I'm going to spend some time doing something that I wanted to do yesterday. I'll be doing it on the side while staying in the thread.

MSU my 3x3 atm:

Kill Doc, bhuber, ratchet. No order or preference (also hope you and road are standing behind them)
Save: Riki, fonti, achro. This is in preference order.
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Sorry I needed to step away for a bit from the game. I'm going to clear my head over night nd be backto go hard.

If you wake up before me can you try to pressure road?

This is some of the posts that triggered me when he spoke to/with me. (first is from late d1 and up to middle-ish d2)

I felt like he tried to interact with me, but not really tried (well i know i have been hard to interact with). Also he kind of softpushed me, then not pushed me, then not wanting to "shoot me" but short after voting for me, and wanting riki to pressure me. But when he gets online he answers a question i have about his progression of his read on me, but still not pressuring me with questions.

I just dont think it looks like the Banks i played with game 3.

I dont know if i can elaborate more on this..
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Old 06-21-2015, 06:25 AM   #2199
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Re: The 2015 Mafia Championship: Game 6

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But I hate being out of sync. I have read the latest posts, but i havent really read the achro, slendy, ratchet discussion earlier and didnt fulyl read all of msus post. and i hate it, but that is the reality. therefore i dont trust my own reads 100p and could be wrong. I just feel quite comfortable with bhuber being villager, and somehow i still think achro is shc (at least in my mind, because i havent seen any cue posts where he is really ambigious about that). And ye, your d3 is just so unlikely as scum. Maybe you are, but i dont think i would consider you before f5/f3 if that is the case - well i would if someone posts a case on you ofc..
are you still around? I want to know if you're down to play a game.
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Old 06-21-2015, 06:28 AM   #2200
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Re: The 2015 Mafia Championship: Game 6

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This is some of the posts that triggered me when he spoke to/with me. (first is from late d1 and up to middle-ish d2)

I felt like he tried to interact with me, but not really tried (well i know i have been hard to interact with). Also he kind of softpushed me, then not pushed me, then not wanting to "shoot me" but short after voting for me, and wanting riki to pressure me. But when he gets online he answers a question i have about his progression of his read on me, but still not pressuring me with questions.

I just dont think it looks like the Banks i played with game 3.

I dont know if i can elaborate more on this..
Game 3 I was more impassioned and didn't **** up day 1. I vote mafia the first two days.

Tell me you're here.
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