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Old 06-20-2015, 10:13 PM   #2076
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Re: The 2015 Mafia Championship: Game 6

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Originally Posted by Riki View Post
i mean if you're mafia, you'd have to have made up some reasoning for why you didn't want to vote ratchet, which is that you thought he was the seer, then you'd need to find a reason you thought he was the seer, and then it's pretty simple from that point forward

this is probably not a useful thing to discuss though

i don't see why it can't be a w/w interaction?
Really? Same thing in game 3 with Mr. Capps the way he spoke to me was a wolf talking to a villager and me talking back to him. I did have the advantage of being right on Mr. Capps when he was up for lynch in that game no so much in this one. Its the same thing. There is some things that day 1 wolves aren't likely to talk to each other about because its not something a) they think of or b) comes naturally ESPECIALLY if its two people that have never played a game before with each other so not knowing how they will react could potentially screw your team over.

If I was making up a reason for him being cop wouldn't I have more likely pointed to a post he made in general about a possible peek vs a response to me about my peek. The reason I noticed the interaction was because I cared about why he was reading me town despite my reads and his not meshing. I read taht and it stuck out to me. In the moment in my head I go "OH **** THATS A SEER" Obviously not information I share at the time but my posting towards him is very different after that point.
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Old 06-20-2015, 10:13 PM   #2077
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Re: The 2015 Mafia Championship: Game 6

mostly I am just trying to get under Banks' skin right now...and he'll tell you that I am not with.

(its kind of fun to doe regardless of banks' role, though).
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Old 06-20-2015, 10:21 PM   #2078
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Re: The 2015 Mafia Championship: Game 6

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Banks, accuse me of being a mafia or something. Its almost hard to watch you treat me as if I am a villager, trying ever so hard, to convince me to consider the evidence that you're, in fact, town.

Tell the others I am trying to lead your mis-lynch. After all, I am your top mafia AORN.

Its almost painful to watch mafia respond they're backed against a wall.

Their brains, more often than not, are caught up in responding with the TMI effect of knowing I am town.
I have dorian's name bolded, Not yours. I know nothing of your alignment sir. I want to hear more about why you think I'm scum.

I think your response to calling me mafia will tell me a lot. For example I think road TRULY believed it yesterday when he was calling me scum before MSU's claim.

Again I'm just telling you to look through his filter. Its good reading.
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Old 06-20-2015, 10:24 PM   #2079
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Re: The 2015 Mafia Championship: Game 6

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Originally Posted by TehBankertin View Post
Depends on how he comes back with the read having looked at the evidence. I'm not going to say someone mis reading me is lock mafia. Their brain could just work different than mine and others. I also mentioned earlier that someone pushing on a difficult misslynch is more likely to be town that a wolf because wolf just need to make it day to day. I care more about why he thinks I'm a wolf than THAT he thinks I'm a wolf.
i mean i understand that

but i think it's different when it's bhuber that's saying these things since he's also one of the people in the poe and i'm pretty sure you've said that you think he's mafia for a while

like if i was in your position i think i would be less accepting and pretty skeptical about it

if road came at me today trying to get me lynched i'd probably be going back at him pretty hard (i'm still really confused that he's reading me villager btw)

and @ the bolded, i'm pretty sure i mentioned before that it's the same thing that ratchet tried to do wrt slendy/achro. reading someone for who they make cases on is probably not a great idea, you should probably be evaluating the cases themselves

speaking of which i don't think you've done the above wrt road's case on you yet?
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Old 06-20-2015, 10:24 PM   #2080
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Re: The 2015 Mafia Championship: Game 6

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I know multiple people have said stuff like this and I know it isn't a scummy thing to say for everyone but god I hate when people say they will accept something. Like, anyone who ever scum/wolf reads me gets a fight to my dying breath when I am town. I have no understanding of anyone at all. Maybe I am just mean.
You have never been wrong as town? I mean how hard is it to be wrong? I thought ratchet was the damn cop and probably single handedly stopped us from lynching a scum on day 1. I had a terrible EoD. I hate that it demotivates the **** out of me. I'm still town though.

So why can others not be wrong about you? Think about WHY people are wrong thats what is important. Mafia will say things to benefit them town will say things to find wolves and don't care what it sounds like who hears. I feel this playstyle is not optimal at all. It would probably kill you to play a single game with Jon Paul.
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Old 06-20-2015, 10:24 PM   #2081
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Re: The 2015 Mafia Championship: Game 6

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I know multiple people have said stuff like this and I know it isn't a scummy thing to say for everyone but god I hate when people say they will accept something. Like, anyone who ever scum/wolf reads me gets a fight to my dying breath when I am town. I have no understanding of anyone at all. Maybe I am just mean.
i accept this
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Old 06-20-2015, 10:29 PM   #2082
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Re: The 2015 Mafia Championship: Game 6

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Really? Same thing in game 3 with Mr. Capps the way he spoke to me was a wolf talking to a villager and me talking back to him. I did have the advantage of being right on Mr. Capps when he was up for lynch in that game no so much in this one. Its the same thing. There is some things that day 1 wolves aren't likely to talk to each other about because its not something a) they think of or b) comes naturally ESPECIALLY if its two people that have never played a game before with each other so not knowing how they will react could potentially screw your team over.
i meant specifically the interaction that made you think he was the seer

(tbh i haven't completely read ratchet's filter for his interaction with you either)

he was giving his thoughts on your reads list, which you asked him to do, i don't really see why that can't be w/w

talking about reads on other people is probably one of the easier w/w interactions to make imo
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Old 06-20-2015, 10:31 PM   #2083
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Re: The 2015 Mafia Championship: Game 6

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For example I think road TRULY believed it yesterday when he was calling me scum before MSU's claim.
why do you think this?
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Old 06-20-2015, 10:31 PM   #2084
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Re: The 2015 Mafia Championship: Game 6

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i mean i understand that

but i think it's different when it's bhuber that's saying these things since he's also one of the people in the poe and i'm pretty sure you've said that you think he's mafia for a while

like if i was in your position i think i would be less accepting and pretty skeptical about it

if road came at me today trying to get me lynched i'd probably be going back at him pretty hard (i'm still really confused that he's reading me villager btw)

and @ the bolded, i'm pretty sure i mentioned before that it's the same thing that ratchet tried to do wrt slendy/achro. reading someone for who they make cases on is probably not a great idea, you should probably be evaluating the cases themselves

speaking of which i don't think you've done the above wrt road's case on you yet?
I think he is definitely in the PoE he hasn't done anything really for 2 and a half days if he wants to develop a case on me I'm happy to see him put in the work and be able to judge his interactions with people based on the case. I also know my alignment so it gives me even mroe PURE information. ITs not something that will make me mad. It makes me happy to have the new info a new set of data to work off.

I agree on the ratchet posts on slendy/achro the point is that the way ratchet approaches it is wolfy vs how I think road is approaching me which is more villagery. Like road BELIEVED I was scum when he started his case. He was saddened msu had a confirmed mafia. HE STILL tried to link me to ratchet after. Its like a villager who wants to be right... MAYBE its a scum who can't think of anything else to do but I think scum would say something like "oh this changes things I must reconsider" because they ASSUME thats what towns think. I know for example when MSU outed I instantly believed him. I also instantly was upset he outed with that info our cop just traded himself for 1 mafia who realistically was probably getting lynched that day or the next either way. Thats a hard feeling to replicate as mafia. Same goes for making a case.
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Old 06-20-2015, 10:36 PM   #2085
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Re: The 2015 Mafia Championship: Game 6

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Originally Posted by TehBankertin View Post
I agree on the ratchet posts on slendy/achro the point is that the way ratchet approaches it is wolfy vs how I think road is approaching me which is more villagery. Like road BELIEVED I was scum when he started his case. He was saddened msu had a confirmed mafia. HE STILL tried to link me to ratchet after. Its like a villager who wants to be right... MAYBE its a scum who can't think of anything else to do but I think scum would say something like "oh this changes things I must reconsider" because they ASSUME thats what towns think. I know for example when MSU outed I instantly believed him. I also instantly was upset he outed with that info our cop just traded himself for 1 mafia who realistically was probably getting lynched that day or the next either way. Thats a hard feeling to replicate as mafia. Same goes for making a case.
i'm pretty sure the bolded doesn't make much sense in this context though

like in this case specifically, when msu comes out with a red check on ratchet, if you're road with a case on banks then you think about any banks/ratchet interactions there might have been, and the first that sticks out to you is probably that you didn't vote ratchet at eod1

if msu comes out with a red check and road goes "oh nvm, i'll reconsider on banks" that would've been really weird

if you think road truely believes in his case on you, why has he yet to actually post the full case?
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Old 06-20-2015, 10:39 PM   #2086
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Re: The 2015 Mafia Championship: Game 6

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Originally Posted by Riki View Post
i meant specifically the interaction that made you think he was the seer

(tbh i haven't completely read ratchet's filter for his interaction with you either)

he was giving his thoughts on your reads list, which you asked him to do, i don't really see why that can't be w/w

talking about reads on other people is probably one of the easier w/w interactions to make imo
So without doing quotes the interactions were as such:
-Banks gives reads
-Ratchet responds to this saying he likes Banks and his reads
-Banks realizes ratchets reads don't really line up with his reads so he asks him why and points this out. (scumbanks would probably let this slide and just tell him to expand on it in mafia chat later so that his read didn't sound scummy)
-Ratchet in detail goes through and address each of my reads personally. (Scum ratchet is clearly buddying here wanting to get in good with bigger poster dude who has 1/4 the posts in the game)
-Sadly donkey!Banks thinks he has a cop read and decides to move on from ratchet being scum. (If I was taking the line as scum to make sure he shaped up in the thread I would have followed through and explained for him why his reads and mine being off still made us likely both town)

Its awkward for me to throw scum on him as w/w and then him as wolf to obediently buddy a partner by answering his question in full and in great detail when he knows I'm not trying to read him and no one was really talking about the interaction at the time afaik.
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Old 06-20-2015, 10:39 PM   #2087
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Re: The 2015 Mafia Championship: Game 6

also reading the actual stuff he has posted on you

do you think it makes sense that town!road would BELIEVE in his case on you given what he's shown so far?

like personally, i didn't like his case at all
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Old 06-20-2015, 10:40 PM   #2088
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Re: The 2015 Mafia Championship: Game 6

riki - bhuber
fonisian - doc
TehBankertin - riki
achro - no peek
road - banks

dorian78 - did you leave a clear peek?
Slendy - did you leave a clear peek?

Still havent heard from these two but for the sake of discussion, I'll allude to my thoughts now (I have slendy as a pretty hard town lean so I am not as concerned about him although I still think it would be useful to know 100% if either of them left explicit peeks).

Since we know that cue did not leave an explicit peek, it means the mafia took a calculated risk in killing him over a number of players that DID leave explicit peeks. This means that their peeks were wrong or the mafia didnt not believe them enough to glean that that person was indeed the real cop.

A level 0 read would therefore be that the following people look bad/didnt have believable cop cover IF indeed their claims were correct: riki, tehbankertin, and roads.

I know riki's claim was correct, so the wolves either didnt believe it or riki is scum.

TehBankertin not dying alludes to the fact that his peek was wrong, or he is mafia.

Roads peek was wrong, or he is mafia.

____


I'll get back to this point in a second.
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Old 06-20-2015, 10:40 PM   #2089
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Re: The 2015 Mafia Championship: Game 6

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Originally Posted by Riki View Post
why do you think this?
He seemed bummed when it came out that MSU was cop and he had a red on ratchet and he couldn't push on me that day.

It was like he had this idea in his head that I was a wolf and he was excited and wanted everyone to know AND he kept tying me back in with the updated information.

His reaction when I gave my shower read last night was awkward I think in a townie way.
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Old 06-20-2015, 10:42 PM   #2090
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Re: The 2015 Mafia Championship: Game 6

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i'm pretty sure the bolded doesn't make much sense in this context though

like in this case specifically, when msu comes out with a red check on ratchet, if you're road with a case on banks then you think about any banks/ratchet interactions there might have been, and the first that sticks out to you is probably that you didn't vote ratchet at eod1

if msu comes out with a red check and road goes "oh nvm, i'll reconsider on banks" that would've been really weird

if you think road truely believes in his case on you, why has he yet to actually post the full case?
Lets ask road I could be wrong its just a feeling thing. I think my post about thinking he was town through him off whatever his alignment. He either reconsidered as a town or as wolf is like "*** what do i do now?"

Which do you think is more likely?
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Old 06-20-2015, 10:44 PM   #2091
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Re: The 2015 Mafia Championship: Game 6

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also reading the actual stuff he has posted on you

do you think it makes sense that town!road would BELIEVE in his case on you given what he's shown so far?

like personally, i didn't like his case at all
good or bad doesn't mean anything case wise. I can make SOME OF THE BEST cases as a wolf because you need to to get people lynched. As town sometimes I struggle with cases because I think stupid things make people mafia or town and its hard to convince others. Like CLEARLY no one else read ratchet as cop from what I posted. As scum i'd have had a much better reason.

Point being do you think that scum always makes bad cases and town good cases? I certainly don't. Do you read that road REALLY thinks I'm mafia or not thats important. I think he does.
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Old 06-20-2015, 10:45 PM   #2092
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Re: The 2015 Mafia Championship: Game 6

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Originally Posted by TehBankertin View Post
So without doing quotes the interactions were as such:
-Banks gives reads
-Ratchet responds to this saying he likes Banks and his reads
-Banks realizes ratchets reads don't really line up with his reads so he asks him why and points this out. (scumbanks would probably let this slide and just tell him to expand on it in mafia chat later so that his read didn't sound scummy)
-Ratchet in detail goes through and address each of my reads personally. (Scum ratchet is clearly buddying here wanting to get in good with bigger poster dude who has 1/4 the posts in the game)
-Sadly donkey!Banks thinks he has a cop read and decides to move on from ratchet being scum. (If I was taking the line as scum to make sure he shaped up in the thread I would have followed through and explained for him why his reads and mine being off still made us likely both town)

Its awkward for me to throw scum on him as w/w and then him as wolf to obediently buddy a partner by answering his question in full and in great detail when he knows I'm not trying to read him and no one was really talking about the interaction at the time afaik.
i'm looking at the interaction now and all ratchet says in response to your reads is "Thanks, that's exactly what I was looking for."

then you ask him to talk more about your reads and that's when he gives his opinion on each read of yours
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Old 06-20-2015, 10:47 PM   #2093
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Re: The 2015 Mafia Championship: Game 6

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Originally Posted by bhuber2010 View Post
riki - bhuber
fonisian - doc
TehBankertin - riki
achro - no peek
road - banks

dorian78 - did you leave a clear peek?
Slendy - did you leave a clear peek?

Still havent heard from these two but for the sake of discussion, I'll allude to my thoughts now (I have slendy as a pretty hard town lean so I am not as concerned about him although I still think it would be useful to know 100% if either of them left explicit peeks).

Since we know that cue did not leave an explicit peek, it means the mafia took a calculated risk in killing him over a number of players that DID leave explicit peeks. This means that their peeks were wrong or the mafia didnt not believe them enough to glean that that person was indeed the real cop.

A level 0 read would therefore be that the following people look bad/didnt have believable cop cover IF indeed their claims were correct: riki, tehbankertin, and roads.

I know riki's claim was correct, so the wolves either didnt believe it or riki is scum.

TehBankertin not dying alludes to the fact that his peek was wrong, or he is mafia.

Roads peek was wrong, or he is mafia.

____


I'll get back to this point in a second.

Definitely follow your logic here I'd like to see more.
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Old 06-20-2015, 10:48 PM   #2094
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Re: The 2015 Mafia Championship: Game 6

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i'm looking at the interaction now and all ratchet says in response to your reads is "Thanks, that's exactly what I was looking for."

then you ask him to talk more about your reads and that's when he gives his opinion on each read of yours
So why don't I let it go? Why do I keep pushing the interaction if we're w/w.

That is what I'm saying.
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Old 06-20-2015, 10:48 PM   #2095
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Re: The 2015 Mafia Championship: Game 6

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He seemed bummed when it came out that MSU was cop and he had a red on ratchet and he couldn't push on me that day.

It was like he had this idea in his head that I was a wolf and he was excited and wanted everyone to know AND he kept tying me back in with the updated information.

His reaction when I gave my shower read last night was awkward I think in a townie way.
if msu comes out with a red check on someone that he thinks works in a scumteam with you why would that make him bummed?

why would he just stop trying to post his case and still not have posted it 2 days later?

and i mean like it's also just possible he was bummed that msu came out with a red check on his partner

that's a thing
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Old 06-20-2015, 10:49 PM   #2096
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Re: The 2015 Mafia Championship: Game 6

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Originally Posted by TehBankertin View Post
Lets ask road I could be wrong its just a feeling thing. I think my post about thinking he was town through him off whatever his alignment. He either reconsidered as a town or as wolf is like "*** what do i do now?"

Which do you think is more likely?
i mean my vote is on him atm
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Old 06-20-2015, 10:51 PM   #2097
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Re: The 2015 Mafia Championship: Game 6

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Originally Posted by TehBankertin View Post
So why don't I let it go? Why do I keep pushing the interaction if we're w/w.

That is what I'm saying.
why not? like i said earlier i think talking about reads is one of the easier interactions to make as w/w

like basically i don't understand why you think that's NEVER w/w
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Old 06-20-2015, 10:53 PM   #2098
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Re: The 2015 Mafia Championship: Game 6

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if msu comes out with a red check on someone that he thinks works in a scumteam with you why would that make him bummed?

why would he just stop trying to post his case and still not have posted it 2 days later?

and i mean like it's also just possible he was bummed that msu came out with a red check on his partner

that's a thing
Thats true that would be a low level mafia player. I kind of think road is better than that.

I also think that ratchet if he was a teammate was likely to die that day anyways so road would probably be either busing for town cred or ready for him to die. I don't think it would catch him off guard.

I could be wrong you might be voting a wolf btw. I'm happy to stir the discussion up though.
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Old 06-20-2015, 10:54 PM   #2099
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Re: The 2015 Mafia Championship: Game 6

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Originally Posted by bhuber2010 View Post
riki - bhuber
fonisian - doc
TehBankertin - riki
achro - no peek
road - banks

dorian78 - did you leave a clear peek?
Slendy - did you leave a clear peek?

Still havent heard from these two but for the sake of discussion, I'll allude to my thoughts now (I have slendy as a pretty hard town lean so I am not as concerned about him although I still think it would be useful to know 100% if either of them left explicit peeks).

Since we know that cue did not leave an explicit peek, it means the mafia took a calculated risk in killing him over a number of players that DID leave explicit peeks. This means that their peeks were wrong or the mafia didnt not believe them enough to glean that that person was indeed the real cop.

A level 0 read would therefore be that the following people look bad/didnt have believable cop cover IF indeed their claims were correct: riki, tehbankertin, and roads.

I know riki's claim was correct, so the wolves either didnt believe it or riki is scum.

TehBankertin not dying alludes to the fact that his peek was wrong, or he is mafia.

Roads peek was wrong, or he is mafia.

____


I'll get back to this point in a second.
i probably understand what direction you're taking this, but you didn't mention that fonti peeked doc which is confirmed to be correct and would also look bad on level 0

iirc someone quoted something from cue that looked pretty seery and might be why he was nk'd even if he didn't leave a clear peek

and it also could've been to make ratchet look slightly better given where his vote was at eod
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Old 06-20-2015, 10:57 PM   #2100
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Re: The 2015 Mafia Championship: Game 6

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Originally Posted by TehBankertin View Post
I also think that ratchet if he was a teammate was likely to die that day anyways so road would probably be either busing for town cred or ready for him to die. I don't think it would catch him off guard.
i don't really agree

road had 3 votes, msu had 2 votes, ratchet had 0 votes (iirc), i think most of the thread was starting to think that ratchet could be a villager until msu claimed
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