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Old 06-20-2015, 10:46 AM   #1951
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Re: The 2015 Mafia Championship: Game 6

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Originally Posted by Slendy View Post
Bull****. You first go "okay cue-flip resolves that thing [Ratchet]" then you LEAVE OUT THE MOST IMPORTANT D1-WAGON from your "pool of 4" -wagons.

What the hell, if you are Town?
NO! my focus with that post was on the FORMER wagons. Not the actually eod wagons. I argued why that was important and I STILL think it is. Ratchet was not a wagon earlier therefore i left him out of the ppl i would focus on. (well i ended up doing like no work on those ppl in the end, but hat is just due to me not having enough time)
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Old 06-20-2015, 11:01 AM   #1952
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Re: The 2015 Mafia Championship: Game 6

Despite no one sending me to Disney World in MSU's little scenarios, I shall be sending myself to Disney World (for reals!) today. I'll check in before bed. Two thoughts I had before heading out.

Welcome back, bhuber.

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Originally Posted by bhuber2010 View Post
road also seemed super detached in his EOD 1 and his list of acceptable votes was horrendous - i can see he's already getting railroaded today though so it probably cant hurt that he has a little extra pressure on him already with 39 hours to basically talk us through it
The underlined part greatly devalues any reads he gives on road while catching up. Like Slendy said, I would have much rather seen what he had to think before knowing the current state of the game.

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Lol this seems opportunistic. What are the math behind this thought? From what I read there you think there are a bigger probability that bhuber are mafia than me.
You are just assuming in your conclusio nthat either of us flips mafia. Try to consider the fact that we could flip villagers. I know i will flip villager, and then what info have you gained?
I think bhuber wil lflip villager, and then what info have you gained?

I think this is the wrong way to look at it.

I mean, if i were to be lynched and flip scum, then you would say that riki couldnt be my partner, which means bhuber would be next for lynch. The the info gained with lynching me is no bigger than lynching bhuber, because he would be lynched anyway - from your train of thoughts.

I just dont see why it makes sense to not lynch who you find most scummy in this situation.
Just because I find more possible teams that include bhuber than include you does not mathematically equal that I find bhuber most scummy.

At the time when I made that post, the info gained from bhuber was pretty much nothing, regardless of his flip. You flipping mafia makes Riki look better to me, and narrows my focus to mostly bhuber and Banks. I'll admit, I've perhaps tunneled that scenario a bit cause I think it's most likely. You flipping town would mean I'd have to go back and reevaluate a lot, but my initial thought is that it makes Riki and me look a fair bit worse, and I'm not sure what it says about bhuber and Banks.


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I have had an odd feeling about this, but i fakepeeked you [Banks] so wasnt able to ask you a lot during most of d1 and d2
I don't know much about this whole strategy of fake-scanning people, but reading this makes me realize that picking a scumbuddy to fake-scan as town and announcing it to the thread sounds like a good way to avoid having to interact with them much. I point this out knowing that, to anyone considering me scum, I'm guilty of the same thing with Ratchet, minus the clear announcement. I choose to draw attention to it anyways.

Ok. I'm off to lunch at Disney.
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Old 06-20-2015, 11:17 AM   #1953
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Re: The 2015 Mafia Championship: Game 6

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Originally Posted by Riki View Post
i skimmed all of road's day 1/day 2/some of day 3 posts from game 3

first surface level observation is that he has said stuff like "i know this makes me look bad" or "i know i'm exposing myself as scum in regards to your reasoning" multiple times in this game, and made approximately zero similar posts to the above in the previous game

like most of the time that he's said something like the above has been after returning to the thread after being afk for a while, and he had similar periods of inactivity in the previous game (since people sleep and stuff) and wasn't nearly as apologetic or self-conscious there
You are right. I think you will find some posts where I'm like "im sry for that", but this is totally different game for me.
The first game was like - "okay, i jsut do this for pure fun" - it was hard to find any ppl being able to participate from our forum because of the timezones- i wasnt in top 3 of first considered for being our rep. Therefore it was more like - no pressure and no expectations.

This game i got wildcarded - meaning someone think i was worthy of being in it. This puts pressure on you. And besides that a lot of ppl were questining whether it was fair to wildcard me instead of other players (spruce, phoenix) - i mean I dont want to look bad.
And also consider I got some irl stuff I couldnt foresee which means i could put in less time which again leads to worse play.
Yes your observations is correct, but it is completely roleneutral
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Old 06-20-2015, 12:01 PM   #1954
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Exclamation Vote Count

Votes from post 1743 to post 1953
Night in 31:59:56

---
VotesLynchVoters
4 road dorian78 (15), Riki (49), Slendy (47), fontisian (17)
1 dorian78 DocEspana (12)
4 not voting Achromatic (17), bhuber2010 (7), road (24), TehBankertin (16)
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Old 06-20-2015, 12:15 PM   #1955
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Re: The 2015 Mafia Championship: Game 6

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Originally Posted by road View Post
My purpose of this post was to:

1) Ask what other ppl thought of resolving wagons, in this exact situation. Normally it would be standard but i think that cue (the last wagon and also the one saving Ratchet) being killed changes a lot.
2) Making sure that lynching Ratchet would actually serve a purpose

I dont see why this is weird at all. If we wont to infolynch (which is often the case d2), we shoould make sure to get some info. Point out where I try to assume cue lynch means ratchet is villager?
So when all's said and done, you only mention Ratchet in the light that since cue cannot be Lynched anymore, there's not much information to be gained.

And believe that there's Scum in the wagons PRIOR to Ratchet.

You COMPLETELY brush him aside.

Your actions D2 can be summed up as: deflecting away from Ratchet, using the cue-hit as justification (when we've already seen Ratchet state confidently that the cue-hit wasn't probably [merely] SHK; meaning that Ratchet plausibly TMI'd us that there was something else to it as well). Ignoring Ratchet entirely in favour of focusing on the four earlier wagons, which probably were all Town and your Scumpartner's username starts with a B.

I'll humour you though and let you try to clarify two things: 1) what has been your progression in your own words on Ratchet throughout the entire game?
2) why did you not pay any attention at all to Ratchet after stating that what he's doing resembles you of a prior-game experience with a Mafioso?
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Old 06-20-2015, 12:17 PM   #1956
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Re: The 2015 Mafia Championship: Game 6

Banks -- what made Ratchet of all Players such a likely Cop D1 that you abhorred the possibility of Lynching him? Especially since there was ample time for him to claim, and there was never even any BREADCRUMBING or softclaiming done by him during the last 30mins of pressure.

It's actually fairly clear that a Cop about to be CFD'd EoD1 goes about their defense TOTALLY differently.
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Old 06-20-2015, 12:18 PM   #1957
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Re: The 2015 Mafia Championship: Game 6

That's one of the reasons why I was confident to stay on Ratchet -- there were no Coptells in sight during the last hour.
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Old 06-20-2015, 12:20 PM   #1958
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Re: The 2015 Mafia Championship: Game 6

road's defense reminds me of ratchet's quite a bit. He isn't really showing why he is town, just kind of explaining that when he does flip scum a lot of the stuff we see as scummy is role neutral tbh.
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Old 06-20-2015, 12:44 PM   #1959
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Re: The 2015 Mafia Championship: Game 6

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Originally Posted by Achromatic View Post
road's defense reminds me of ratchet's quite a bit. He isn't really showing why he is town, just kind of explaining that when he does flip scum a lot of the stuff we see as scummy is role neutral tbh.
whatever. i guess you would call me scum on the reason of avoiding all the questions if i didnt answer them. This is dejavu. it just fits in your world me being scum
I just finished eating dinner, now on to ratchet
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Old 06-20-2015, 12:51 PM   #1960
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Re: The 2015 Mafia Championship: Game 6

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Originally Posted by Slendy View Post
So when all's said and done, you only mention Ratchet in the light that since cue cannot be Lynched anymore, there's not much information to be gained.

And believe that there's Scum in the wagons PRIOR to Ratchet.

You COMPLETELY brush him aside.

Your actions D2 can be summed up as: deflecting away from Ratchet, using the cue-hit as justification (when we've already seen Ratchet state confidently that the cue-hit wasn't probably [merely] SHK; meaning that Ratchet plausibly TMI'd us that there was something else to it as well). Ignoring Ratchet entirely in favour of focusing on the four earlier wagons, which probably were all Town and your Scumpartner's username starts with a B.

I'll humour you though and let you try to clarify two things: 1) what has been your progression in your own words on Ratchet throughout the entire game?
2) why did you not pay any attention at all to Ratchet after stating that what he's doing resembles you of a prior-game experience with a Mafioso?
You frame it the way that fits you view the best. I have presented another view - my pov. i dont think you are reading my posts.

1) neutral -> neutral -> he got peeked
2) i was just aware that i thought there some similar things - but it was like such a smallish feeling that i didnt even putted him on scumlist. for some reason his style was not one i paid particular notice to
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Old 06-20-2015, 12:56 PM   #1961
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Re: The 2015 Mafia Championship: Game 6

Also 3)
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Ah I had you all on ignore besides Banks.. Guess this case is irrelevant at this moment. MSU, do you think Banks and Ratchet can be scum together?

I think, if Ratchet is scum, Banks is looking even more scummy..
You clearly HAVE made observations on Ratchet if you are Town and posting this in reaction to MSU's claim.

Since you've made a connection such as this in your honest-to-God-Town -mind, why have you dropped Banks entirely?
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Old 06-20-2015, 12:59 PM   #1962
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Re: The 2015 Mafia Championship: Game 6

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You frame it the way that fits you view the best. I have presented another view - my pov. i dont think you are reading my posts.

1) neutral -> neutral -> he got peeked
2) i was just aware that i thought there some similar things - but it was like such a smallish feeling that i didnt even putted him on scumlist. for some reason his style was not one i paid particular notice to
Not a matter of 'framing' -- that's simply what HAPPENED in the Thread and it's up to you to prove there was a Townie agenda behind it all.
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Old 06-20-2015, 01:00 PM   #1963
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Re: The 2015 Mafia Championship: Game 6

Like, answering 'neutral->neutral->he got peeked' is not an answer, IT'S THE PROBLEM.
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Old 06-20-2015, 01:29 PM   #1964
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Re: The 2015 Mafia Championship: Game 6

Not gonna multiquote cause would be Too Painful but I'm gonna show what has happened in this game so far from the perspective of Red!Banks with teammates Ratchet and road.

-start of the game enthusiastically and well, with a convincing tone
-dominate threadflow for the most part
-things go swimmingly until EoD1, when buddy Ratchet gets SFD'd
-has played his cards right and can try to steer the Lynch away from Ratchet without incriminating himself; later makes up the excuse that he thought Ratchet was the Cop, though there is no real reasoning for anyone to think so based on D1
========
*N1, yells at (Ratchet and?) road for buddying him too much
*probably tells road to distance the two of them by giving him instructions for a case, which road almost entirely copy-pastes from the QT (you may note that the lingo used in road's case on Banks is nowhere to be seen in any of the other reads he's provided on us fellow players)
*considers cue a likely Seer, the Hit has the added benefit of maybe deflecting suspicion off of Ratchet (atleast with Town!fonti so eagerly breathing on cue's neck)
======
-D2, kind of circles around Ratchet but doesn't take any too definite stances and is content to let others do the questioning
-Attacks MSU in an attempt to deflect off of Ratchet; as noted earlier, the team is not keen on bussing Ratchet, especially if R got peeked.
-Stays away from the road-wagon, waits for road to start his push on Banks for the distance-ing. The attempt gets MSU-blocked.
====
*N2, woe is the life of the reds. Probably some yelling.
====
-D3, not super-relevant anymore. Either afk for the first time in the game or demoralized, or both.
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Old 06-20-2015, 01:55 PM   #1965
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Re: The 2015 Mafia Championship: Game 6

sup

good to see that we're actually going to be playing the game today
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Old 06-20-2015, 01:58 PM   #1966
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Re: The 2015 Mafia Championship: Game 6

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Originally Posted by bhuber2010 View Post
I recall riki asking banks a number of times whom he planned on voting towards EoD that I felt was super out of place at the time - banks also hard-defended Rachet in a number of places and was basically okay with lynching numerous people that were/are villagers who were people I felt were villagers. I know riki was super involved d1 and again on d2 judging by merely post count value so I'd be more apt to give him the benefit of the doubt over banks - banks was screaming for all sorts of **** on eod 1 that didnt seem to make sense to me but I'll get into that further once I wake up.
iirc i only asked banks once and that was with 2 minutes left in the day

any other times i asked it was too other people

also, i might be misunderstanding the second half of your post, but i'm not sure why you'd give me the benefit of the doubt over banks when we have like the same number of posts?
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Old 06-20-2015, 02:03 PM   #1967
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Re: The 2015 Mafia Championship: Game 6

Quote:
Originally Posted by road View Post
I'm making a lot of coffee and will start now.
If anyone are interested in my startingperspective I'm here now:

Town:
road
Doc

Very likely town:
Achro (In my mind probably SHC, and just villavibes all over)
bhuber ( see my d2analysis, dont think he really posted since?)
Riki (because of my latest post)

This leaves:
Dorian,
Fonti,
Slendy
Banks

I still find Banks as a likely scum, and i hope i will finish my case today. I have gotten villavibes from the other 3, but not enough to put them in the upper category
can you walk me through the worlds where slendy or fonti are mafia with ratchet and their motivations for doing what they did at eod?

also, putting bhuber in your very likely town category just because of a townread you had on him at the start of day 1 seems strange and kind of arbitrary, especially when you had iirc stronger townreads on fonti and possibly more and ratchet being mafia makes fonti look better, not worse
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Old 06-20-2015, 02:03 PM   #1968
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Re: The 2015 Mafia Championship: Game 6

*start of day 2
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Old 06-20-2015, 02:33 PM   #1969
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Re: The 2015 Mafia Championship: Game 6

Quote:
Originally Posted by Slendy View Post
Not gonna multiquote cause would be Too Painful but I'm gonna show what has happened in this game so far from the perspective of Red!Banks with teammates Ratchet and road.

-start of the game enthusiastically and well, with a convincing tone
-dominate threadflow for the most part
-things go swimmingly until EoD1, when buddy Ratchet gets SFD'd
-has played his cards right and can try to steer the Lynch away from Ratchet without incriminating himself; later makes up the excuse that he thought Ratchet was the Cop, though there is no real reasoning for anyone to think so based on D1
========
*N1, yells at (Ratchet and?) road for buddying him too much
*probably tells road to distance the two of them by giving him instructions for a case, which road almost entirely copy-pastes from the QT (you may note that the lingo used in road's case on Banks is nowhere to be seen in any of the other reads he's provided on us fellow players)
*considers cue a likely Seer, the Hit has the added benefit of maybe deflecting suspicion off of Ratchet (atleast with Town!fonti so eagerly breathing on cue's neck)
======
-D2, kind of circles around Ratchet but doesn't take any too definite stances and is content to let others do the questioning
-Attacks MSU in an attempt to deflect off of Ratchet; as noted earlier, the team is not keen on bussing Ratchet, especially if R got peeked.
-Stays away from the road-wagon, waits for road to start his push on Banks for the distance-ing. The attempt gets MSU-blocked.
====
*N2, woe is the life of the reds. Probably some yelling.
====
-D3, not super-relevant anymore. Either afk for the first time in the game or demoralized, or both.
In name of fairness, mostly this is also applicable to Red!bhuber, if you change "steering the Lynch away" and "circling around Ratchet" to "wasn't around lol".

However, Banks claiming Ratchet was off the hook D1 for him due to seeming like a COP doesn't actually make any sense at all if you think about it.
(Did Banks ever pressure Achro during D2? If he legit thought Ratchet could be a Cop, it should follow that Achro is a person of mighty interest for him, come D2. To my recollection Banks was along the same lines with me wrt the MSU/Achro-possibility, so I suppose this does check out, atleast to an extent.)

Plus road's weird antics regarding Banks started after N1 and could be plausibly explained by the above; more plausibly than Redmastermind!bhuber urging road to switch his strategy so drastically.
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Old 06-20-2015, 03:12 PM   #1970
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Re: The 2015 Mafia Championship: Game 6

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I never states that Ratchet is clear. My arguments for wanting to focus on the 4 ppl is that they were ALL wagons early on but NONE of them ended up being wagons. Wouldnt you think this leaves at least 1 scum there?
i mean saying that there's at least X mafia in the earlier wagons just because they lost votes before eod is arbitrary and it would be more useful if you actually did some analysis on the votes/wagons and then figured out who the mafia could actually be

and if you really wanted to focus on those 4 people, i think figuring out ratchet's alignment first, since 2/4 of those people ended up voting ratchet and a bunch of the votes that were originally on those 4 people moved to ratchet

but instead you decided to focus on those 4 people first which is pretty strange

and like, the fact that you think there is at least two scum in the earlier wagons kind of implies that you're saying you think ratchet is town

like, just in terms of surface level observations, since that's probably all you were going off of at the time, if ratchet is scum then you'd be saying that we had wagons on all 3 mafia during eod, and the mafia managed to get votes off the two mafia that were wagons before eod, but the votes just moved onto ratchet the third mafia in exchange
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Old 06-20-2015, 03:20 PM   #1971
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Re: The 2015 Mafia Championship: Game 6

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I have a history with Banks therefore I was more focused on him than anyone else. I still am actually.
Also I havent looked at you as scummy. You have been neutral to me all the time, because you were one of the ones with highest postcount, so i never really felt like ISO'ing you.

If you look in game 3, i actually have it in the EXACT same way in regards to some of the other players (if i remember correct Yates and coolkid in particular - but also banks in middle stages after townreading him d1 though)
why?

i mean like, based off of only the list of points you used to call banks scummy, you thinking i'm neutral-villagery doesn't make much sense afaict
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Old 06-20-2015, 03:23 PM   #1972
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Re: The 2015 Mafia Championship: Game 6

what i'm trying to say is i think what you've posted so far of your case on banks was pretty bad and it doesn't feel real, in part because most of the reasons you posted were generic and could probably apply to me too

like, unless you disagree that it applies to me, it doesn't seem like you put much thought into it

especially if you were gonna drop seer cover just to make that case

i'm not really attacking the part where you think i'm a villager if you're a villager you should keeping that
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Old 06-20-2015, 03:24 PM   #1973
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Re: The 2015 Mafia Championship: Game 6

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and if you really wanted to focus on those 4 people, i think figuring out ratchet's alignment first, since 2/4 of those people ended up voting ratchet and a bunch of the votes that were originally on those 4 people moved to ratchet
this sentence should probably end with ", would be the obvious first thing to resolve"
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Old 06-20-2015, 03:29 PM   #1974
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Re: The 2015 Mafia Championship: Game 6

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also i dont remeber being online at the same time as Ratchet.
i mean you were barely ever online and definitely not online much at the same time as banks for example yet you still focused on him

i think rereading eod closely, or reading ratchet's posts before eod which is what cause a cfd to start on him wouldn't really require being online at the same time as him
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Old 06-20-2015, 03:32 PM   #1975
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Re: The 2015 Mafia Championship: Game 6

Quote:
Originally Posted by road View Post
My purpose of this post was to:

1) Ask what other ppl thought of resolving wagons, in this exact situation. Normally it would be standard but i think that cue (the last wagon and also the one saving Ratchet) being killed changes a lot.
2) Making sure that lynching Ratchet would actually serve a purpose

I dont see why this is weird at all. If we wont to infolynch (which is often the case d2), we shoould make sure to get some info. Point out where I try to assume cue lynch means ratchet is villager?
i don't see how those two things don't = you thinking ratchet is a villager

or at least you softly defending him
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