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Old 06-19-2015, 12:42 PM   #1776
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Re: The 2015 Mafia Championship: Game 6

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Originally Posted by Slendy View Post
Also fwiw came up on bhuber being Riki's fake N0-peek. Not sure what that implies, if anything.
i don't really know that much about the mechanics of fakepeeking/seer cover etc. but my impression was that fakepeeking a teammate isn't a great idea because when the seer dies then you might have to start turning on the teammate that you fakepeeked

well like if i was mafia i probably wouldn't do it fwiw
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Old 06-19-2015, 12:48 PM   #1777
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Re: The 2015 Mafia Championship: Game 6

Dorian I find it strange you vote for someone that is scum half the time for your list versus someone who is scum 100% of the time on your list.
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Old 06-19-2015, 12:51 PM   #1778
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Re: The 2015 Mafia Championship: Game 6

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]then Riki finally casts a Vote despite observing the Thread and commenting on things for a while before that.
like my reason for not voting ratchet is above

my reason for not voting msu is because i didn't know what he was doing and didn't want to just conclude that he was mafia

i was thinking of voting road but i wanted to look at some of his filter from this game and his previous game first, and that's when i voted road
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Old 06-19-2015, 12:52 PM   #1779
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Re: The 2015 Mafia Championship: Game 6

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OTOH if road's a Scummy Scummer, Riki's a confirmed green.
pretty good incentive

road
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Old 06-19-2015, 12:56 PM   #1780
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Re: The 2015 Mafia Championship: Game 6

i mean since ratchet was in anti-spew for like the entire phase yesterday, mafia was probably considering the possibility that ratchet would get peeked by the seer at night

so like, if i'm mafia, and i know msu is playing weird as **** as town and ratchet is mafia, then i probably instantly make the connection that msu is the cop with a guilty on ratchet

instead of figuring it out like halfway through the day

and then i'd probably actually make a stance on ratchet yesterday instead of just being "i don't know"

fwiw
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Old 06-19-2015, 12:58 PM   #1781
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Re: The 2015 Mafia Championship: Game 6

like if i'm mafia with him i probably just start bussing him immediately because i'm bad at mafia
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Old 06-19-2015, 01:01 PM   #1782
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Re: The 2015 Mafia Championship: Game 6

if anything me/road is more likely than me/ratchet

i mean if you exclude the part where i have to be with ratchet to be with road
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Old 06-19-2015, 01:05 PM   #1783
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Re: The 2015 Mafia Championship: Game 6

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i mean since ratchet was in anti-spew for like the entire phase yesterday, mafia was probably considering the possibility that ratchet would get peeked by the seer at night

so like, if i'm mafia, and i know msu is playing weird as **** as town and ratchet is mafia, then i probably instantly make the connection that msu is the cop with a guilty on ratchet

instead of figuring it out like halfway through the day

and then i'd probably actually make a stance on ratchet yesterday instead of just being "i don't know"

fwiw
OTOH, you would as Mafia want MSU to out himself as blatantly as possible, since 'delaying' the reaction [yours to the Cop-like pressure on you Scumbuddy] could buy you the time for a Mislynch on someone else.

Like, once Mafia!Riki realizes Cop!MSU is pressuring Scumbuddy!Ratchet, MSU is going down N2 regardless and Ratchet is doomed D3, but you might get one much needed Mislynch before that.
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Old 06-19-2015, 01:08 PM   #1784
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Re: The 2015 Mafia Championship: Game 6

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if anything me/road is more likely than me/ratchet

i mean if you exclude the part where i have to be with ratchet to be with road
But didn't you just now agree with me that if the Scumteam was anticipating a guilty on Ratchet (they clearly were), Ratchet is the ONLY viable bussing target for his partners? Why create a wagon on a second Mafioso and risk that gaining too much traction/suspicion to be forgotten after Ratchet's outed?
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Old 06-19-2015, 01:09 PM   #1785
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Re: The 2015 Mafia Championship: Game 6

You'd also want someone MSU could plausibly see as scum with Ratchet under pressure, so MSU doesn't claim and out his checks. At least, that's how I'd play it if I were sure MSU was the cop.
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Old 06-19-2015, 01:11 PM   #1786
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Re: The 2015 Mafia Championship: Game 6

Feelings:

Riki > Road for scum, but its close.

I cannot place dorian. Not for the life of me. His play has me perplexed. Hes openly said he would probably lynch ratchet over other people up for lynch, but in reality he does not lynch ratchet, and actually doesnt even analyze ratchet. Simply says hed be the one hes most likely to lych a few times and carries on with lynching and analyzing others.

Why even say that if you are a wolf. I can imagine a benefit scenario where that is done, but unlike my read on ratchet I dont *think* its what dorian is doing. But also why do it as a villager either. It just seems... careless.
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Old 06-19-2015, 01:12 PM   #1787
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Re: The 2015 Mafia Championship: Game 6

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I will highlight the riki points, note: this is me quoting me.



When Ratchet is going into 'I'm melting, I'm melting' at the end of day one he pushes Slendy in a very sloppy manner. Lots of people call him out on it including Riki who, when not getting an answer he found satisfactory, asked him again. I find this crucial because like Banker towards the end of day one they both were trying to get a bead on Ratchet's mindset I feel. They asked what I would call 'the unrequired question' if they were his buddy. Instead of supporting Ratchet straight up, they were searching for answers. True, they ended their pursuit wrongly, but I feel the pursuit of that answer as time was winding down to be a genuine town interaction.

Now mind you this isn't concrete or anything, he's just one step above the love triangle of dorian/bhuber/road. That one bit though is enough to get him above the murkiness. Also I think Ratchet is the type to condemn town and buddy town at the same time while distancing himself from his buddies. Just a feeling, could be wrong.
Hmm. OTOH Riki and Banks weren't exactly in the position to IGNORE Ratchet, now were they? Compare their stances to you -- us both saw that what Ratchet's doing is WEIRD. We both were ready to go full-steam ahead with the Lynch based on the awkward defense alone. Yet it wasn't enough for Riki or Banks, who both go for the 'unrequired question' -option instead. Perhaps they weren't as much unrequired as they were the LEAST of all evils?

Plus Ratchet ignoring Riki, forcing him to ask the question again, could be sloppiness on Ratchet's part only trying to focus on the Townies and ignoring the clever Scumbuddy-interaction-attempt.

And yes while I was on another drive I was thinking and actually started feeling the odds of Riki/Banks as very plausible. Gonna make a short post about that in a minute.
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Old 06-19-2015, 01:13 PM   #1788
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Re: The 2015 Mafia Championship: Game 6

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Originally Posted by DocEspana View Post
Feelings:

Riki > Road for scum, but its close.

I cannot place dorian. Not for the life of me. His play has me perplexed. Hes openly said he would probably lynch ratchet over other people up for lynch, but in reality he does not lynch ratchet, and actually doesnt even analyze ratchet. Simply says hed be the one hes most likely to lych a few times and carries on with lynching and analyzing others.

Why even say that if you are a wolf. I can imagine a benefit scenario where that is done, but unlike my read on ratchet I dont *think* its what dorian is doing. But also why do it as a villager either. It just seems... careless.
In game 2 I found scum who did that to a buddy. "I'd lynch him!" but never materializes. It's pretty common to throw shade without throwing real shade imo.
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Old 06-19-2015, 01:14 PM   #1789
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Re: The 2015 Mafia Championship: Game 6

equally important. How comfortable are we putting everyone else above suspicion? Banks? Slendy?

Im not accusing them. Im just being thorough. There are some who legitimately did act in a way that could only be villager. But others are more just "too distant from ratchet to likely be wolves" but we also shouldnt completely overlook them.

No need to harass them all day. But its a long day, lets not put on blinders and ignore that one of the scum could be lying low and benefitted greatly from us all focusing on "all roads leading through ratchet"
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Old 06-19-2015, 01:14 PM   #1790
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Re: The 2015 Mafia Championship: Game 6

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Hmm. OTOH Riki and Banks weren't exactly in the position to IGNORE Ratchet, now were they? Compare their stances to you -- us both saw that what Ratchet's doing is WEIRD. We both were ready to go full-steam ahead with the Lynch based on the awkward defense alone. Yet it wasn't enough for Riki or Banks, who both go for the 'unrequired question' -option instead. Perhaps they weren't as much unrequired as they were the LEAST of all evils?

Plus Ratchet ignoring Riki, forcing him to ask the question again, could be sloppiness on Ratchet's part only trying to focus on the Townies and ignoring the clever Scumbuddy-interaction-attempt.

And yes while I was on another drive I was thinking and actually started feeling the odds of Riki/Banks as very plausible. Gonna make a short post about that in a minute.
Ratchet isn't the type to strike me as that sloppy. He wasn't sloppy in any other facet. The reads I got I got assuming he is highly intelligent tbh.
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Old 06-19-2015, 01:16 PM   #1791
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Re: The 2015 Mafia Championship: Game 6

Ratchet was in meltdown mode at the time. If he was going to get sloppy at any point, it was there.
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Old 06-19-2015, 01:17 PM   #1792
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Re: The 2015 Mafia Championship: Game 6

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Ratchet isn't the type to strike me as that sloppy. He wasn't sloppy in any other facet. The reads I got I got assuming he is highly intelligent tbh.
Every intelligent person has their blind spots and/or weak moments -- Ratchet's defense of himself during that last hour of D1 clearly wasn't his most shining moment, else the Wagon would've never reached such a critical mass.
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Old 06-19-2015, 01:19 PM   #1793
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Re: The 2015 Mafia Championship: Game 6

It's a fair point, so why does Riki give that clever interaction right at that moment? You're a scum buddy, you're buddy is bleeding out in front of you from a forceful attack. Why do you, at that time, add onto it? Insistently so. Sure two days later we're discussing it as being clever, but that pressure by Riki helped make ratchet look poor because it exposed a chink in the waning moments of day. There is no direct benefit and losing a buddy day one in this setup is...horrific for scum.
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Old 06-19-2015, 01:21 PM   #1794
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Re: The 2015 Mafia Championship: Game 6

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OTOH, you would as Mafia want MSU to out himself as blatantly as possible, since 'delaying' the reaction [yours to the Cop-like pressure on you Scumbuddy] could buy you the time for a Mislynch on someone else.

Like, once Mafia!Riki realizes Cop!MSU is pressuring Scumbuddy!Ratchet, MSU is going down N2 regardless and Ratchet is doomed D3, but you might get one much needed Mislynch before that.
is the first sentence supposed to say "not want"?

and what i'm saying is that i'd like immediately start bussing ratchet

it's not good play or anything but that's what i would do

like i don't come into the day slightly waffling/slightly leaning town on him, i'd start off leaning slightly mafia and then slowly transition to fully scumreading him

i mean this wasn't meant to be a full discussion or anything because i realize that these aren't exactly verifiable facts but yeah
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Old 06-19-2015, 01:22 PM   #1795
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Re: The 2015 Mafia Championship: Game 6

So if Riki (or Banks for that matter) didn't comment on Ratchet at all, wouldn't that have looked far far more worse? Both being such prolific posters and all. What do you think they should've done, as their buddies? What course of action would've left them more 'wiggle room' either way, assuming they're buddies?
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Old 06-19-2015, 01:24 PM   #1796
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Re: The 2015 Mafia Championship: Game 6

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But didn't you just now agree with me that if the Scumteam was anticipating a guilty on Ratchet (they clearly were), Ratchet is the ONLY viable bussing target for his partners? Why create a wagon on a second Mafioso and risk that gaining too much traction/suspicion to be forgotten after Ratchet's outed?
what that post meant to say was that i bus teammates the moment i think they're gone (and i tend to start thinking that before the town actually does)

it wasn't meant to actually make sense within the context of this game, like you might have missed the second sentence
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Old 06-19-2015, 01:26 PM   #1797
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Re: The 2015 Mafia Championship: Game 6

You mean like how we have people who all of day one did not, in fact, comment on Ratchet at all Slendy? Why yes, that does look worse.

I am not saying their scum chance is an impossibility, but we have people who fit your criteria for 'looking worse' already in OTHER people.

In theory, under my mindset, what they did would have been utterly brilliant scum play. Utterly so. And even with that brilliance there are still like 5 members of town who are much more towny than them to me right now. You are choosing to focus on the impossibly brilliant play option against the people who just look poor for how Ratchet interacted with them. Their play isn't a vacuum. We have but two scum, and the rest must be town. For Riki/Banker to be scum, it means bhuber/road/dorian are all town and if I am that wrong in my analysis of Ratchet's interactions it will be a first for me.
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Old 06-19-2015, 01:27 PM   #1798
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Re: The 2015 Mafia Championship: Game 6

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Originally Posted by Slendy View Post
Hmm. OTOH Riki and Banks weren't exactly in the position to IGNORE Ratchet, now were they? Compare their stances to you -- us both saw that what Ratchet's doing is WEIRD. We both were ready to go full-steam ahead with the Lynch based on the awkward defense alone. Yet it wasn't enough for Riki or Banks, who both go for the 'unrequired question' -option instead. Perhaps they weren't as much unrequired as they were the LEAST of all evils?

Plus Ratchet ignoring Riki, forcing him to ask the question again, could be sloppiness on Ratchet's part only trying to focus on the Townies and ignoring the clever Scumbuddy-interaction-attempt.

And yes while I was on another drive I was thinking and actually started feeling the odds of Riki/Banks as very plausible. Gonna make a short post about that in a minute.
i don't remember him ignoring me btw, i remember him giving like a short answer and then i had to ask him a question again
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Old 06-19-2015, 01:28 PM   #1799
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Re: The 2015 Mafia Championship: Game 6

Riki, you are voting Road to clear yourself, correct? Do you have other reasoning?
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Old 06-19-2015, 01:29 PM   #1800
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Re: The 2015 Mafia Championship: Game 6

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It's a fair point, so why does Riki give that clever interaction right at that moment? You're a scum buddy, you're buddy is bleeding out in front of you from a forceful attack. Why do you, at that time, add onto it? Insistently so. Sure two days later we're discussing it as being clever, but that pressure by Riki helped make ratchet look poor because it exposed a chink in the waning moments of day. There is no direct benefit and losing a buddy day one in this setup is...horrific for scum.
i don't know if this helps me or not but i wasn't really asking the question to put pressure on him

like, his response to that question is part of why i ended up not voting him
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