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Old 06-17-2015, 09:41 PM   #1401
Slendy
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Re: The 2015 Mafia Championship: Game 6

To clarify on this:
Quote:
Plus the responses have seemed consistent and the "attacking every point" -defense smells of Town!indignance.
When Scum get accused, they usually acknowledge atleast some of the accusations thrown their way on some level, since they have a guilty conscience since they know they are what the community is after. I don't think there's a single shred of such a 'guilty conscience' in Ratchet's responses.

Also fwiw, when in Game 5 I made a similar thing to yesterDay (afk'd for a Phase, came back 2 hours prior to the end, CFD'd a Scummer) the sole Scummioso (ApocPS) actually sticked out from the group as being the only one to describe my play with hyperboles, and overall gave the most excited impression on what I had just done/was about to do.

The two people who seem to have reacted similarly (have been "electrified", if you will) here seem to my recollection to be MSU and Dorian.
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Old 06-17-2015, 09:44 PM   #1402
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Re: The 2015 Mafia Championship: Game 6

Quote:
Originally Posted by Slendy View Post
MSU and Achro are the ones most on my mind right now, actually.

If I was in MSU's shoes, and Achro was my Scumbuddy, I probably wouldn't have joined a wagon joined by him [Achro] at the last minute. Especially since MSU/Achro would quite heavily imply that all the D1-wagons were Town.

Is that just me, though?
i think it's likely that all of bigger eod wagons were town

when all of the wagons are town i probably care more about the reasons people have for changing votes and whether their progression makes sense

i think they can realistically do whatever and i wouldn't want to rule the actual mafia team out just because of something i think when i'm not the mafia

because it's happened to me before

also it wasn't really last minute, or msu joining immediately after achro iirc
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Old 06-17-2015, 09:45 PM   #1403
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Re: The 2015 Mafia Championship: Game 6

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Originally Posted by fontisian View Post
It would only ever work with the vote counter anyway. Any other site, and the intention behind the vote (that is, voting MSU), would be taken into account. It's the only thing I don't really like about the vote counter, tbh.
wtf is the point of this conversation lol
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Old 06-17-2015, 09:46 PM   #1404
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Re: The 2015 Mafia Championship: Game 6

I AM SICK, OK.

I am now going to do something productive. Whee.
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Old 06-17-2015, 09:50 PM   #1405
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Re: The 2015 Mafia Championship: Game 6

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Originally Posted by fontisian View Post
You've never done something solely to look town as mafia?
All the time.

Yet - I wouldn't on day 1 in vanilla. You would switch to your mafia buddy as number 2 vote after the previous lynch candidate you had your vote on throws him under the bus?

I would have switched to Smartbomb and used the excuse that Bomb's posting was erratic and more scummy.
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Old 06-17-2015, 09:54 PM   #1406
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Re: The 2015 Mafia Championship: Game 6

I'd have to judge whether he's going down anyway. What about town!Ratchet worlds?
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Old 06-17-2015, 09:56 PM   #1407
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Re: The 2015 Mafia Championship: Game 6

Quote:
Originally Posted by Riki View Post
i think it's likely that all of bigger eod wagons were town

when all of the wagons are town i probably care more about the reasons people have for changing votes and whether their progression makes sense

i think they can realistically do whatever and i wouldn't want to rule the actual mafia team out just because of something i think when i'm not the mafia

because it's happened to me before

also it wasn't really last minute, or msu joining immediately after achro iirc
The only 'progression' that pinged me in itself was MSU going "yeah Ratchet definitely" while still finding it necessary to snidely remark "still don't like Slendy". Other than that detail, I think everyone seemed fairly clean (with the exception of Ratchet).

Actually I think MSU saying something along the lines of "why Bomb over Slendy? ... Bomb's on my list [to Lynch], definitely" should also be considered somewhat ping-worthy.

They can do whatever they want but exactly because of the plentitude of options available I don't think Mafia!MSU would join a wagon supported (even initiated, practically speaking) by his Scumbuddy without a good reason (since distancing should seem more appealing as an alternative). Dorian being Scum would be incentive for that -- Dorian being Scum would probably be incentive for that regardless of Achro's affiliation, actually. Mafia!MSU would want to see one of the Town-wagons gain decisive traction so people wouldn't revert to Mafia!Dorian.
Mafia!Achro also would, independently of MSU.
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Old 06-17-2015, 09:58 PM   #1408
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Re: The 2015 Mafia Championship: Game 6

Quote:
Originally Posted by fontisian View Post
I AM SICK, OK.

I am now going to do something productive. Whee.
Can you get well? I'm starting to think you're not sick and just avoiding our reads date.
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Old 06-17-2015, 09:59 PM   #1409
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Re: The 2015 Mafia Championship: Game 6

Catching up after dinner out.

Quote:
Originally Posted by DocEspana View Post
If everyone's argument is that I'm a busy doctor, it's totally non game related targeting and also not gonna net you a wolf. Since no one has any game related arguments against me (especially after I got more in the groove of stuff later in day 1s cycle ) I'd hope some of th3 suspicion would come off of me.
My argument, which I admit wasn't strong, cause hey, mid-day 1, was that the little content you did have time to post was odd to me. Your first set of reads only listed like 1 townread (Banks), and a whole bunch of varying levels of scumreads on people. The mild scumread on me you backpedaled to neutral when I called you out on it. Having a bunch of scumreads early and 1 townread is so not typical of how I play as town, or most people in my experience. Would you say it's typical for you or others in your experience?

Quote:
Originally Posted by DocEspana View Post
Want me to vote for Achromatic? So do I. But you're gonna have ti make much stronger arguments for either their suspicion or your innocence when you're my wolf suspicion de jour. It's almost true that the same arguments would hold more water from someone else. Almost.
I'm still definitely not sold on Ratchet as mafia, but if he is, this totally reads to me as "Hey, scumbuddy. I want to vote with you, but I can't justify it based on the suspicion you have and the case you made. Make a better case so I can justify the vote."

Quote:
Originally Posted by MSU View Post
I didn't like how Dorian said Ratchet was in his top 3 mafia and was the only one he didn't do a read of.

Hence, he got on my list.

Again, not fool proof but enough to make me wonder and go "huh?"
Good grief. Riki's already addressed it, but it only came out that way because I'm a slow poster and you kept impatiently complaining that I didn't give you a 3x3. I started my rundown by saying I was starting with the easy reads (which implies I'm saving the tough ones for last), I said which I'd shoot and save as I went along, the answer at the end was the same as the answer in the middle, and the only reason you got the condensed list with Ratchet in it before the post about Ratchet was because you kept complaining you hadn't gotten it for real and I knew I didn't have time to make the Ratchet post before work commitments. Pretend it happened the other way. Like Riki said, this is a weird thing to get hung up on compared to any of the actual content I posted, especially since you profess to have several similar reads to me.

Quote:
Originally Posted by MSU View Post
So in essence, and again, not fool proof, but Dorian listed Ratchet as top 3 mafia like he wanted us to know that Ratchet was mafia but didn't know how to say why. If you are ACTUALLY thinking Ratchet is top 3 mafia, you have reasons. If he is neutral and you are unsure, he goes in the "not being listed because they are neutral" pile.

I found it....odd.
Did you find the reasons I posted when I finally had time to post them not sufficient? Yeah, Ratchet was close to neutral territory, but if I only have 2 scumreads and you ask for 3 to shoot, I have to pick the worst of the neutrals, and that was a hard call, cause I don't mathematically line all my reads up in a perfect line from most town to least town.

Quote:
Originally Posted by TehBankertin View Post
Oh if ratchet is scum and MSU thinks he is going down today for sure then busing makes a lot of sense. I am not sure I see that connection based on the EoD voting.
Are you saying that if they're both scum, that MSU bussing Ratchet today makes sense, or bussing Ratchet in last night's vote makes sense? Cause I agree with the first, but quite a bit less with the second.

Quote:
Originally Posted by fontisian View Post
As a general note, I think I'm the only woman in this game, so whenever someone uses "her" or "she" to refer to someone else, it's very confusing. Stop that.
...is Riki not a she? If not, I sincerely apologize for calling him "she" all game. I don't know where I got the wrong impression.
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Old 06-17-2015, 09:59 PM   #1410
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Re: The 2015 Mafia Championship: Game 6

I think we're in a weird spot where a lot of people are talking about things by making assumptions about people being wolves and not wolves.

Lets try making some cases on people based upon things that make them wolfy to begin with not because they played situation X like situation Y which a wolf would or wouldn't do.
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Old 06-17-2015, 10:00 PM   #1411
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Re: The 2015 Mafia Championship: Game 6

Quote:
also it wasn't really last minute, or msu joining immediately after achro iirc
Well, last hour, critical moment still. Especially tally-wise, since the tally only "consolidated" to two possibilities during the last few minutes. It was a four-way deadlock at ten minutes to PC, still.
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Old 06-17-2015, 10:01 PM   #1412
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Re: The 2015 Mafia Championship: Game 6

Quote:
Originally Posted by TehBankertin View Post
Can you get well? I'm starting to think you're not sick and just avoiding our reads date.
Ask me a question and I shall appear.
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Old 06-17-2015, 10:01 PM   #1413
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Re: The 2015 Mafia Championship: Game 6

@dorian bussing ratchet today would make sense but due to EoD I find it less likely. Guess I should have made it clear.

Also Riki is a she just like AskThePizzaGuy. I was thrown off at first too.
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Old 06-17-2015, 10:01 PM   #1414
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Exclamation Vote Count

Votes from post 1122 to post 1413
Night in 21:59:55

---
VotesLynchVoters
3 road fontisian (19), MSU (27), Riki (39)
2 MSU Slendy (57), TehBankertin (61)
1 DocEspana dorian78 (15)
1 no lynch DocEspana (6)
3 not voting Achromatic (28), bhuber2010 (4), road (12)
1 Error RatchetOPB (20)
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Old 06-17-2015, 10:02 PM   #1415
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Re: The 2015 Mafia Championship: Game 6

Quote:
Originally Posted by fontisian View Post
Ask me a question and I shall appear.
Who else was on cue with you? Do you think any of them would have been wolves? IF so why?
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Old 06-17-2015, 10:03 PM   #1416
Slendy
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Re: Vote Count

Quote:
Originally Posted by ChampionsMod View Post
Votes from post 1122 to post 1413
Night in 21:59:55

---
VotesLynchVoters
3 road fontisian (19), MSU (27), Riki (39)
2 MSU Slendy (57), TehBankertin (61)
1 DocEspana dorian78 (15)
1 no lynch DocEspana (6)
3 not voting Achromatic (28), bhuber2010 (4), road (12)
1 Error RatchetOPB (20)
Note to self: Kill Banks N2.
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Old 06-17-2015, 10:03 PM   #1417
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Re: The 2015 Mafia Championship: Game 6

Quote:
Originally Posted by dorian78 View Post
I'm still definitely not sold on Ratchet as mafia, but if he is, this totally reads to me as "Hey, scumbuddy. I want to vote with you, but I can't justify it based on the suspicion you have and the case you made. Make a better case so I can justify the vote."
I had the exact opposite reaction. Doc is acting like he's owed something. It's a town mindset to have.
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Old 06-17-2015, 10:05 PM   #1418
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Re: The 2015 Mafia Championship: Game 6

Quote:
Originally Posted by TehBankertin View Post
Who else was on cue with you? Do you think any of them would have been wolves? IF so why?
Doc and Road. Doc is town. Road might be scum, hence the vote.
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Old 06-17-2015, 10:09 PM   #1419
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Re: Posted from a freakin mac

Quote:
Originally Posted by ChampionsMod View Post
VotesLynchVoters
5 MSU bhuber2010 (16), RatchetOPB (49), Riki (101), SmartBomb (37), TehBankertin (161)
2 cue5c DocEspana (20), fontisian (44)
1 DocEspana Achromatic (38)
1 dorian78 Slendy (19)
1 Riki MSU (16)
1 TehBankertin cue5c (69)
2 not voting dorian78 (16), road (47)
This is still relevant, especially with Smartbomb's flip. If MSU is scum, where's the counterwagon? If he's town, where's the scum on him?
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Old 06-17-2015, 10:10 PM   #1420
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Re: Posted from a freakin mac

Quote:
Originally Posted by ChampionsMod View Post
Votes from post 9 to post 458
Night in 23:15:40

---
VotesLynchVoters
3 TehBankertin cue5c (56), DocEspana (12), Riki (50)
2 DocEspana Achromatic (38), RatchetOPB (35)
2 MSU bhuber2010 (16), TehBankertin (113)
1 cue5c fontisian (33)
1 dorian78 Slendy (19)
1 unvote SmartBomb (24)
3 not voting dorian78 (12), MSU (5), road (33)
Also this. I think everyone voting on Banks was town, so that's weird.
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Old 06-17-2015, 10:10 PM   #1421
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Re: The 2015 Mafia Championship: Game 6

My apologies - but this will be long as I just re-read from the Slendy appearance at EOD to EOD.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Achromatic View Post
"Why are you voting for me?"

Said no town ever.

Ratchet

I'm sold.
Vote number 2. There was ZERO momentum on Ratchet at this point. I give him Town for this.

Quote:
Originally Posted by RatchetOPB View Post
You are expressing a degree of surprise that people are not following your line of thought when you have described that thought as "possible coasting"? You dismiss one of your reads as playstyle indicative, but apparently that isn't the case for me for some reason that you failed to provide. Can you at least expand on your argument here please?
Ratchet fails to give a defense - he is basically saying "why are you voting for me?" This was the first post that made me say "Huh....look at how Slendy did it and look at how Ratchet did it"

Quote:
Originally Posted by cue5c View Post
Of all the people to see what I see with Ratchet.
This is Cue saying he agrees with Slendy - I think this is what got him killed.

Quote:
Originally Posted by RatchetOPB View Post
Who are you down for lynching?
He is asking Riki this. Almost to see who he get votes for. Like if Riki had said Cue, would he have gone to Cue?

Quote:
Originally Posted by fontisian View Post
Not Doc. I like Doc. Also Road. Road is cool with me now.
I just brought this out now - @FONTI - why is Road not cool anymore?

Quote:
Originally Posted by RatchetOPB View Post
H-how? How is asking someone who they are happy with lynching reeking of scum?

Slendy

I don't want to be lynched, I think your lynch will give a lot of information, especially on those on my wagon and your argument here is almost non-existent.
Ratchet retaliating voting. Remember how you all dinged me for voting for bhuber? There were still two votes on Slendy (Cue and Achro had moved on to Ratchet). I was still on Slendy at this time as well.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Slendy View Post
Yeah about halfway through skimming through Ratchet and so far happy with the Vote.

His/her posts read out like they are typed with a 'sense of duty' rather than gamesolving intent -- as in, Ratchet seems to me to be posting for the sake of posting, and they love to comment on non-committal topics.

Also came up on them considering my first vote on them as 'pressure' and that still seems like a weird thing to me.
This was the post that actually swayed me and made me start hesitating on my vote with Slendy.

Quote:
Originally Posted by RatchetOPB View Post
I've tried that.

Slendy has came into the thread, pushing a vague argument against me and look, a quick bandwagon from nothing. After my flip, it would be easy to palm it off as well.

Because I think his lynch offers more information.
Yet he didn't go after Slendy like Slendy went after Ratchet. He switched....

Quote:
Originally Posted by MSU View Post
^^^ same.

This is championship....would some who KNEW that both lynches were town/village not vote for them to play a "I told you so" card? It's so rookie.
SOMEONE asked me about this - this was in response to the Fonti tunneling Cue. I was saying that it looked like Fonti was trying to get everyone to switch to Cue knowing that both Ratchet and Bomb were town (bc Fonti would be mafia). I responded that iit was a rookie move and very transparent.

Quote:
Originally Posted by MSU View Post
I actually am being swayed by your arguments and not liking who is with me.

I just re-read Ratchet's middle of my night posts - they don't seem Scummy/wolfy to me.
I stand by this - his night posts did not seem scummy. And I looked at who was voting for Slendy and was like "I am with people I don't trust and the people I kinda trust, Cue and Achro, are over there....and what a I going to learn with a Slendy vote right now? He is making a good argument..." <----MSU's brain

Quote:
Originally Posted by MSU View Post
ratchet

Why? Because I think this will have more information depending on what he flips then Smartbomb at this moment.

No, I dont think Cue is the way to go tonight - sorry Fonti.

If he flips scum, it will be telling by the peeps not on his train.

If he flips town, less information but will be helpful when we do catch a scum wolf. Who pushed on him vs, who turned up scum.
This is where I said what i have said MANY times today and why I want and STILL want to see a Ratchet flip. And that I think he was scummier than Bomb.

Quote:
Originally Posted by MSU View Post
Mainly because of the last minute scramble - looking at what happened in the last hour (and the last few minutes) is very telling.

I still don't like Slendy. It's freaking Alpha Game 2 all over again.
I take this back (the alpha part) - Slendy came on this AM and actually contributed. So mea culpa. Hence, I like Slendy now.
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Old 06-17-2015, 10:15 PM   #1422
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Re: The 2015 Mafia Championship: Game 6

Quote:
Originally Posted by fontisian View Post
Doc and Road. Doc is town. Road might be scum, hence the vote.
That the only reason you're voting him because he was on cue with you?
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Old 06-17-2015, 10:15 PM   #1423
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Re: The 2015 Mafia Championship: Game 6

Quote:
Originally Posted by MSU View Post
I just brought this out now - @FONTI - why is Road not cool anymore?
Road was helping me with the Cue lynch at the time.
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Old 06-17-2015, 10:15 PM   #1424
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Re: Posted from a freakin mac

Quote:
Originally Posted by fontisian View Post
This is still relevant, especially with Smartbomb's flip. If MSU is scum, where's the counterwagon? If he's town, where's the scum on him?
Perhaps the wagon on me was the counterwagon?
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Old 06-17-2015, 10:16 PM   #1425
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Re: The 2015 Mafia Championship: Game 6

Quote:
Originally Posted by Riki View Post
what if he doesn't flip mafia?
I am reminded of one of my favorite lines from Ghostbusters.

"If I'm wrong, we'll go to jail, peacefully, quietly. We'll enjoy it. But, Lenny, if we're right, and we can stop this thing, you'll have saved the lives of millions of registered voters."

Seriously, then I'm wrong and I'm not as good as I think I am.
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