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Old 06-17-2015, 07:38 PM   #1326
TehBankertin
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Re: The 2015 Mafia Championship: Game 6

Quote:
Originally Posted by Riki View Post
if all the wagons were town not necessarily
If you were in ratchet's position would you not be thinking the same thing?
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Old 06-17-2015, 07:39 PM   #1327
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Re: The 2015 Mafia Championship: Game 6

Quote:
Originally Posted by Riki View Post
he also said he was doing ratchet last because that was the player he was having the hardest time reevaluating, which i think is pretty believable and i'd also probably agree with that statement

@bolded, what's stopping mafia from just re-ordering their list after they decide who they've wanted to kill or save? like if anything i think mafia would be most conscious of their order just in case there are people like you who look into that stuff lol

or generally mafia just make up their reads and then put them together (in order) afterwards, i doubt someone comes up with the order first and then works out how to justify the reads so the order makes sense after, that seems pretty backwards

do you have anything like, related to his content that you think is scummy? he's posted a decent amount of stuff today
Bolded - who Ratchet or Dorian?

When someone asks mafia for their opinion of this stuff, they tend to overthink things like WHO but never the order of the list.

So yeah, they make the list out - think about how to state they hate their scum buddy or soft love their buddies, how they do throw a town member over the ship when they know they are town, etc etc. But sometimes they don't think about the order or forget about the order. You know, concentrate on one thing and forget about the smallest details.

So in essence, and again, not fool proof, but Dorian listed Ratchet as top 3 mafia like he wanted us to know that Ratchet was mafia but didn't know how to say why. If you are ACTUALLY thinking Ratchet is top 3 mafia, you have reasons. If he is neutral and you are unsure, he goes in the "not being listed because they are neutral" pile.

I found it....odd.
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Old 06-17-2015, 07:41 PM   #1328
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Re: The 2015 Mafia Championship: Game 6

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Originally Posted by TehBankertin View Post
If you were in ratchet's position would you not be thinking the same thing?
huh

if i'm ratchet i know that

i'm town
smartbomb was town
cue was town
slendy was the only other particularly big wagon and he's probably town (well ratchet doesn't think that for whatever reason but yeah)

if all the wagons are town mafia can basically do whatever they want
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Old 06-17-2015, 07:41 PM   #1329
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Re: The 2015 Mafia Championship: Game 6

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Originally Posted by fontisian View Post
It makes sense, but lack details. Give names of the likely scum in scum!Ratchet worlds.
Glad I'm sketching you out. I won't be skating through this game. I'm not that type of player. I hope next EoD you're not hanging out yelling for votes on a townie when there is possibly a mafia up for lynch that day.

I read cue as town because his town was carefree as ***. He literally didn't care about how people read him but only about how they went about reading him. Playing scummy to have people push. Its something you should know I like to do as I hate being confirmed town (damn oracles) it makes the game easier to read a lot of the time.

What do you think about MSU's play today? And Dorians?
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Old 06-17-2015, 07:42 PM   #1330
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Re: The 2015 Mafia Championship: Game 6

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Originally Posted by MSU View Post
When someone asks mafia for their opinion of this stuff, they tend to overthink things like WHO but never the order of the list.
I hate to burst your bubble, but I always super overthink the order as mafia.
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Old 06-17-2015, 07:42 PM   #1331
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Re: The 2015 Mafia Championship: Game 6

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Originally Posted by RatchetOPB View Post
Now I take this personally. Fallacy - mistaken principle of logic or belief. Anchro was using the 7for7 fallacy, which I pointed out at the time. I never said that made him wrong, I said I'm not going to follow his reasoning because of it. I find this to be completely unnecessary and needlessly antagonistic on your behalf though.

It was within the last 40 minutes of the day. In a 36 hour day, that's pretty last minute. Your point on it not having an overwhelming majority doesn't really stand up either, seeing as no one ever had more than maybe 5 or 6 votes on them at any one time.

What is critically near closing time then, pray tell, if not well within the last hour?

I'd say the inconsistency is pretty major though. I certainly don't view Day 1 as a crap shoot, and that alone shouldn't be used to discredit my argument anyway, and to me, showing to be strongly in favour of one wagon, then following the subject of that wagon for another one barely discussed throughout the day is pretty suspect.

You are only saying there isn't a good reason to be found because apparently, you think it's fine to ignore major inconsistencies on Day 1. I don't. The fact of the matter is we clearly view the importance of Day 1 differently, and I think my opinion on Day 1 is important to consider here when judging my argument, for context if nothing else.

It's funny you say that, because the end was almost entirely my interpretation on the matter and not discussing the in-thread evidence.

I've never claimed my argument against Achro is enough to get him lynched right there and then. Ever. However, I feel like you have quite a biased review here, and you haven't even considered my perspective on the argument, and why I would possibly see it this way. You've just said "I don't think this is right so it's weak because it is based on a foundation I disagree with fundamentally".
Rather than respond to every point (which will build down to "we disagree. I understand that. I have no hard evidence on you"), let me address the very last point.

This is mafia. If my entire soul and spirit says there is a lot wrong with how you're playing, I'm going to probably ignore what you say. Saying I'm biased is true. I feel like you're a wolf. It's a really overall feeling. Everything you post I'm gonna read as wolves whispering in my ear unless you make an incredible point or someone else says something totally stupid.

It's not my job to be unbiased. It's my job to trust my instincts and try to turn the immutable instincts into actually sentences.

Change my feels. I'm not set I n my ways, I'm simply hesitant to change my opinions based on others opinions when they don't dazzle me.
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Old 06-17-2015, 07:45 PM   #1332
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Re: The 2015 Mafia Championship: Game 6

Quote:
Originally Posted by Riki View Post
huh

if i'm ratchet i know that

i'm town
smartbomb was town
cue was town
slendy was the only other particularly big wagon and he's probably town (well ratchet doesn't think that for whatever reason but yeah)

if all the wagons are town mafia can basically do whatever they want
Well mafia has to vote somewhere. So you have this info and you want to use it right? Who was okay with the day who was lax who was not worried about who was getting lynched cause it was a bunch of town. This is still info none the less. Being almost lynched is stressful but can really shed some light on the way a day broke down.
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Old 06-17-2015, 07:46 PM   #1333
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Re: The 2015 Mafia Championship: Game 6

Quote:
Originally Posted by fontisian View Post
I hate to burst your bubble, but I always super overthink the order as mafia.
I agree with fonti as mafia I tend to be VERY careful with how I order things as town I could give a ***.
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Old 06-17-2015, 07:47 PM   #1334
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Re: The 2015 Mafia Championship: Game 6

Quote:
Originally Posted by MSU View Post
Bolded - who Ratchet or Dorian?
dorian said he would make a post about ratchet last because ratchet was the person he was having the most difficulty reevaluating (he said this probably at least twice)

Quote:
Originally Posted by MSU View Post
When someone asks mafia for their opinion of this stuff, they tend to overthink things like WHO but never the order of the list.

So yeah, they make the list out - think about how to state they hate their scum buddy or soft love their buddies, how they do throw a town member over the ship when they know they are town, etc etc. But sometimes they don't think about the order or forget about the order. You know, concentrate on one thing and forget about the smallest details.
ok

i'm gonna agree to disagree on this one

Quote:
Originally Posted by MSU View Post
So in essence, and again, not fool proof, but Dorian listed Ratchet as top 3 mafia like he wanted us to know that Ratchet was mafia but didn't know how to say why. If you are ACTUALLY thinking Ratchet is top 3 mafia, you have reasons. If he is neutral and you are unsure, he goes in the "not being listed because they are neutral" pile.

I found it....odd.
assuming this over the reason he actually gave doesn't seem like the most obvious or logical conclusion when the reason he gave was pretty believable

when i asked for opinions on his content i meant like opinions on the actual reads he's made, not stuff about whether he made reads before making his list or the order of his reads or w/e
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Old 06-17-2015, 07:48 PM   #1335
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Re: The 2015 Mafia Championship: Game 6

******FILTERZZ DIVING*******

This is the list of filters from the returning wild card reps in their previous games. I've included Smartbomb's. Once I'm dead and gone this is a decent source to find out how people posted in previous games. Town should use this info to judge people based off how they played/are playing. I considered posting this yesterday but I'm kinda glad I didn't.

To find this later simply search "Filterzz" I doubt anyone else uses this word.

There is a link to each game where it says the game name. As well as a link to the player's filter where it says "He/she was role"

Game 1: Mafia were Paperblade, Zaccino and Bubbbles. They swept in 4 days. Only mafia team to win.
Fonti: She was cop She died n1.

Game 2: Mafia were Alpha, #HBC | Ryker, and Saposhiente. Town won on d4.
Achromatic: He was vanilla Town Lived to the end d4 for a town win.
MSU: He was Vanilla Town Died n2 after a mafia lynch.

Game 3: Mafia were Mr. Capps, Coolkid, Turnip Head. Town won in f3.
Road: He was cop Lynched day 4 as cop when coolkid cc'd and a group of donkies believed coolkid :/
TehBankertin: He was Vanilla Town/Hero After ****** up on the cop he pulled out the victory in final 3. His filter is not brief. Ignoring everyone else in the game and reading the game like that might be more efficient.

Game 4: Mafia were: No Lynches, Lissa2, nolemonplease. Town won off concession on d4.
Riki: He was Vanilla Town He died n1.

Game 5: Mafia were Robozerim, Chezinu, ApocPS Town won off concession on d5.
Smartbomb: He was Vanilla Town He replaced in for a no poster on day/night3. He lived until the end.
Slendy: He was Vanilla Town He died night 4.

This took awhile and is only one game some only for 1 day. But reading this through to get a sense of how they interacted as town will be valuable not only now but by the end of the game. Obviously it should be know that once this is posted interactions lose a bit of value because self aware scum would read through and try to emulate some of their townie things on purpose imo.
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Old 06-17-2015, 07:49 PM   #1336
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Re: The 2015 Mafia Championship: Game 6

Finding all those links was a pain in the ass but now people can't be ****ing lazy. Those are the filters for the 8 wildcards. Town should try to familiarize yourselves with them. Note that filters only go to 10 pages of the most recent posts so mine and I think roads are incomplete everyone else I think is there. Not 100%
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Old 06-17-2015, 07:50 PM   #1337
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Re: The 2015 Mafia Championship: Game 6

Quote:
Originally Posted by DocEspana View Post
This is mafia. If my entire soul and spirit says there is a lot wrong with how you're playing, I'm going to probably ignore what you say. Saying I'm biased is true. I feel like you're a wolf. It's a really overall feeling. Everything you post I'm gonna read as wolves whispering in my ear unless you make an incredible point or someone else says something totally stupid.
But that's just it. I can't make an incredible point when you already assume it comes from a scum intent. Like unless there is bang on, 100% or close as guaranteed scum found through that point, there isn't really anything that can possibly change that.
Quote:
Originally Posted by DocEspana View Post
It's not my job to be unbiased. It's my job to trust my instincts and try to turn the immutable instincts into actually sentences.
Maybe not, but I think it is your job, as town, to be as objective as you can in your analysis and to try and separate bias from fact.
Quote:
Originally Posted by DocEspana View Post
Change my feels. I'm not set I n my ways, I'm simply hesitant to change my opinions based on others opinions when they don't dazzle me.
I'm not getting that impression. I'd rather you come up with something solid against me that goes beyond gut feelings and warped interpretations.
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Old 06-17-2015, 07:50 PM   #1338
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Re: The 2015 Mafia Championship: Game 6

I'm going to get food and eat and stuff. I'll be around though need to catch up on some work I was procrastinating.
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Old 06-17-2015, 07:50 PM   #1339
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Re: The 2015 Mafia Championship: Game 6

Quote:
Originally Posted by DocEspana View Post
Rather than respond to every point (which will build down to "we disagree. I understand that. I have no hard evidence on you"), let me address the very last point.

This is mafia. If my entire soul and spirit says there is a lot wrong with how you're playing, I'm going to probably ignore what you say. Saying I'm biased is true. I feel like you're a wolf. It's a really overall feeling. Everything you post I'm gonna read as wolves whispering in my ear unless you make an incredible point or someone else says something totally stupid.

It's not my job to be unbiased. It's my job to trust my instincts and try to turn the immutable instincts into actually sentences.

Change my feels. I'm not set I n my ways, I'm simply hesitant to change my opinions based on others opinions when they don't dazzle me.
have you read some of his past games (if you have time)?

he linked them on the last page i think

like it's w/e if you dislike the way he plays, but it doesn't make him a wolf if he always plays like that
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Old 06-17-2015, 07:51 PM   #1340
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Re: The 2015 Mafia Championship: Game 6

Quote:
Originally Posted by fontisian View Post
It makes sense, but lack details. Give names of the likely scum in scum!Ratchet worlds.
My two pics when I did a 3 X 3 - Dorian and Road (see below)

I don't see ALL three mafia on Smartbomb. But definitely an additional one. I picked Dorian over Riki because they just seemed to pat each other on the back several times during the day phase saying they were ok with each other.

My thought process, thus far - I swear I won't tunnel vision, today has been "What if Ratchet flips mafia?"

Quote:
Originally Posted by MSU View Post
My 3 X 3

Town:

Slendy - I just like how he defended himself yesterday. He hadn't been posting and really did a bang up job of coming in and laying out a really good argument, something he continues to do today with Ratchet. His argument swayed me to not only take my vote off him, but go against what was my gut (saying Bomb...which was wrong...) and listen to him.

Achro - Not sure where the mistrust is coming from. I don't see it at all. He is still doing a solid town job for me. I played with him last time and he was very aggressive towards me (we had...words...over a player I was hammering on but more on that later) but I finally understood his style just a day late because I was night killed. Still pings town to me.

Banksy - I haven't seen anything today but I can appreciate his agressive style, especially EOD. Not sure where his defense of Ratchet came but it was so Town. AKA, I have never seen Scum be that defiant. Maybe I am being tricked and if so, I'll bow down to his mastery. But for now? I am unconvinced that he's that good. Town.

Mafia:

Ratchet - I believe you are mafia and should be our main target at EOD. I stopped overthinking things and re-read what Slendy said yesterday. Still convinced.

Dorian - I think there is mafia on the Smartbomb train and since I can eliminate Cue and I already gave my feelings on Banksy, we have Ratchet (see above), Riki, and Dorian. Then I asked him to do a 3 X 3 - he really didn't do what I asked, just posting reads, almost as he was going down the list and just listing people off in separate posts.

He would shoot Ratchet, most hesitant about him, and I got no read about Ratchet. Out of all of them, he didn't list the one I think is the scummiest. So....I think he hasn't figured that one out. Could be honest, but I am feeling it is scum.

Road: This is my weakest of the three and the one I struggled with the most but I have to put three in. Road could be switched out with several but I hate the Cue vote. I hate that he stuck to Cue. The Cue votes bother me that towards the end, Cue wasn't getting voted. It was Bomb or Ratchet. So we had three players stay on Cue. Fonti I will excuse for the moment (but just for the moment) and Doc I feel just wansn't on...I dunno. Again, WEAKEST of the three right now but I am forced to choose 3.

To Disney World - I am sending Slendy. Enjoy yourself!
Bang Bang - Ratchet.
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Old 06-17-2015, 07:53 PM   #1341
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Re: The 2015 Mafia Championship: Game 6

Right, ok.

Can you explain why you're townreading Achromatic better? And maybe vote for Road with me.
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Old 06-17-2015, 07:56 PM   #1342
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Re: The 2015 Mafia Championship: Game 6

Quote:
Originally Posted by TehBankertin View Post
I agree with fonti as mafia I tend to be VERY careful with how I order things as town I could give a ***.
Quote:
Originally Posted by fontisian View Post
I hate to burst your bubble, but I always super overthink the order as mafia.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Riki View Post

ok

i'm gonna agree to disagree on this one
Really? I find people don't. Must be the guys I play with.
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Old 06-17-2015, 07:57 PM   #1343
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Re: The 2015 Mafia Championship: Game 6

Quote:
Originally Posted by TehBankertin View Post
******FILTERZZ DIVING*******

This is the list of filters from the returning wild card reps in their previous games. I've included Smartbomb's. Once I'm dead and gone this is a decent source to find out how people posted in previous games. Town should use this info to judge people based off how they played/are playing. I considered posting this yesterday but I'm kinda glad I didn't.

To find this later simply search "Filterzz" I doubt anyone else uses this word.

There is a link to each game where it says the game name. As well as a link to the player's filter where it says "He/she was role"

Game 1: Mafia were Paperblade, Zaccino and Bubbbles. They swept in 4 days. Only mafia team to win.
Fonti: She was cop She died n1.

Game 2: Mafia were Alpha, #HBC | Ryker, and Saposhiente. Town won on d4.
Achromatic: He was vanilla Town Lived to the end d4 for a town win.
MSU: He was Vanilla Town Died n2 after a mafia lynch.

Game 3: Mafia were Mr. Capps, Coolkid, Turnip Head. Town won in f3.
Road: He was cop Lynched day 4 as cop when coolkid cc'd and a group of donkies believed coolkid :/
TehBankertin: He was Vanilla Town/Hero After ****** up on the cop he pulled out the victory in final 3. His filter is not brief. Ignoring everyone else in the game and reading the game like that might be more efficient.

Game 4: Mafia were: No Lynches, Lissa2, nolemonplease. Town won off concession on d4.
Riki: He was Vanilla Town He died n1.

Game 5: Mafia were Robozerim, Chezinu, ApocPS Town won off concession on d5.
Smartbomb: He was Vanilla Town He replaced in for a no poster on day/night3. He lived until the end.
Slendy: He was Vanilla Town He died night 4.

This took awhile and is only one game some only for 1 day. But reading this through to get a sense of how they interacted as town will be valuable not only now but by the end of the game. Obviously it should be know that once this is posted interactions lose a bit of value because self aware scum would read through and try to emulate some of their townie things on purpose imo.
the filter links don't work for me lol
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Old 06-17-2015, 07:58 PM   #1344
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Re: The 2015 Mafia Championship: Game 6

Quote:
Originally Posted by fontisian View Post
Right, ok.

Can you explain why you're townreading Achromatic better? And maybe vote for Road with me.
Archo flipped to Ratchet when he could have stayed on Slendy. Why?

No reason for mafia Achro to flip and listen to Slendy. I believe he was the second one to do so.
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Old 06-17-2015, 07:59 PM   #1345
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Re: The 2015 Mafia Championship: Game 6

Quote:
Originally Posted by Riki View Post
the filter links don't work for me lol
Which ones? I'm clicking through and they're working for me.
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Old 06-17-2015, 07:59 PM   #1346
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Re: The 2015 Mafia Championship: Game 6

Quote:
Originally Posted by fontisian View Post
Right, ok.

Can you explain why you're townreading Achromatic better? And maybe vote for Road with me.
I can vote Road

You do love demanding people's votes, don't you? LOL
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Old 06-17-2015, 08:00 PM   #1347
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Re: The 2015 Mafia Championship: Game 6

like none of them

i get "Sorry - no matches. Please try some different terms."
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Old 06-17-2015, 08:00 PM   #1348
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Re: The 2015 Mafia Championship: Game 6

Oh nvm **** me game 4 and 5 work the first three dont. Aids.
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Old 06-17-2015, 08:01 PM   #1349
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Exclamation Vote Count

Votes from post 1122 to post 1348
Night in 23:59:54

---
VotesLynchVoters
2 road fontisian (10), MSU (25)
1 MSU Slendy (43)
1 DocEspana dorian78 (14)
1 Slendy TehBankertin (40)
1 no lynch DocEspana (6)
4 not voting Achromatic (20), bhuber2010 (4), Riki (31), road (12)
1 Error RatchetOPB (19)
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Old 06-17-2015, 08:01 PM   #1350
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Re: The 2015 Mafia Championship: Game 6

I'll make an updated one. They were working when I was in preview blargh.
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