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Old 06-17-2015, 02:08 PM   #1201
dorian78
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Re: The 2015 Mafia Championship: Game 6

Banks: Banks didn't change much during end-of-day. He had his 3 scumreads (me/slendy/smartbomb), and he stuck with them to the bitter end. Even though I know he is wrong about 2 of them, and I think he's actually wrong about all 3. He's got such a town playstyle that almost everyone including me called him town, though I very much hate his style of convincing others to vote with him.

I'm dialing him back down, for a few reasons. First, he could never have gotten away with a vote on cue this game. The only way for him to get rid of cue is the nightkill, and cue was one of the few who actually had the guts to vote him at some point early in the day. Second, his "fake peek" or whatever you guys call it on Riki was probably one of the safest people anyone could have picked at the time he picked it. It was really easy to like his scumhunting style and agree with everyone else's reads, but small points are slowly starting to add up. I guess maybe slight town still, but way closer to null than yesterday.

Slendy: We're back to Riki's and my conversation about my first read on him. Even with a hard reset, he's acting pretty much exactly the same when he came back as he did at the beginning, and as he did in game 5. I misread him horribly when I read game 5, and I'm wary of making the same mistake again. He came back into the thread with a lot of votes on him, and handled it exactly like it should be handled. I'm still very undecided on whether or not Ratchet was the best choice for him to push for the lynch yesterday, but that doesn't change my opinion on how I feel he's playing this game. Town, for now I suppose top 3 to save.
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Old 06-17-2015, 02:09 PM   #1202
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Re: The 2015 Mafia Championship: Game 6

For reference:

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Old 06-17-2015, 02:34 PM   #1203
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Re: The 2015 Mafia Championship: Game 6

Not the first time I'm compared to Buscemi. :P
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Old 06-17-2015, 02:39 PM   #1204
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Re: The 2015 Mafia Championship: Game 6

Btw, Achro, how come my posts didn't catch your attention the first time/s you entered the Thread? You mentioned upon forming the wagon on me that you hadn't seen anything implying game-solving intent. So why didn't that draw your attention sooner?
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Old 06-17-2015, 02:45 PM   #1205
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Re: The 2015 Mafia Championship: Game 6

When I first started the game I didn't bother to read the first bit of the game. I am much more in my element just making a splash. If I am not around for portions of the game it is rare that the first thing I do is to re-read, it takes me out of the game. So it did draw my attention the first time I actually read it.
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Old 06-17-2015, 02:47 PM   #1206
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Re: The 2015 Mafia Championship: Game 6

afaict the case on ratchet is primarily based on his playstyle and not like other things

like i only read part of a game on his home forum but his play was pretty similar there, i said this yesterday too but i think it got ignored

i almost considered voting ratchet yesterday just because i thought he'd be one of the more difficult reads this game but i wasn't sure if that was logically sound or if i was just being ******ed and i ended up staying on smartbomb
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Old 06-17-2015, 02:48 PM   #1207
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Re: The 2015 Mafia Championship: Game 6

Riki: Riki and I fundamentally disagree on a lot of things. What I take away from her end of day is that she's willing to move around her vote a whole bunch, presumably to see how people react. That kind of play is so foreign to me as town it's hard for me to understand, but I know people do it. In the end, she more or less was voting with Banks (first on me, ending on smartbomb), but the people she wanted to lynch (me/Doc/Ratchet) are ones that I'm way more ok with than Banks's list. Well, obviously I'm not ok with me, but I was far more ok with Ratchet than Slendy after reading end of day. What hesitation I have here I think comes from very, very different playstyles and perspectives, and I'm still content to keep Riki as town. Tough call on if she or fonti would be my 3rd to save, but I think Riki.

MSU: MSU pinged me as town very early for nothing else then how easily the wagon picked up on him. He didn't handle the pressure very well in my opinion, yet the votes came off of him when bhuber came back and relented, focusing more on fonti. Going forward from when I left, he didn't really start handling things better until his case on Slendy, but I disagreed with the case. I also felt his suspicion on me yesterday kind of came out of nowhere, but he gets credit for following up on it today. Today, he's trying to take a more a proactive approach, but hasn't shared much of his own thoughts yet. Lots of points in both directions. He put the last vote on Ratchet (cue shenanigans aside), and my quick surface read of that is that I don't think he and Ratchet are likely both scum. Null.

road: road is going to be tough to read. I mentioned it earlier that I'd need to keep an eye here, and I still am. His reads seem very out of sync with everyone else's, though he did admit that this morning. He also was absent for end of day, so nothing to comment on there besides his vote - I'm not thrilled by the cue vote, but cue was an enigma to me for a long time too.

None of his posts this morning do much for me. He was the first to suggest SHK and going back, and if it wasn't a SHK, what better way to distract from that fact? His comments about me answering him too much yesterday feel like a pretty twisted way to try and back away from the townread he said he had on me twice. I answered more because I knew it might be one of my last posts for the day, I was definitely a lynch possibility at the time, and I wanted my thoughts out there if I was mislynched. I was going to put road as a null, but writing this up, I think there's more scummy things in there than not. Slight scumread for now, which is enough to be the top 3 to shoot.

That leaves Ratchet and Achromatic and the little dance they're having. I'm taking a short break before tackling them, as they're the most complicated for me at the moment.
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Old 06-17-2015, 02:48 PM   #1208
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Re: The 2015 Mafia Championship: Game 6

i had more thoughts about the eod but i didn't write them down and forgot most of them

i'll probably just post them as they come back to me
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Old 06-17-2015, 02:51 PM   #1209
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Re: The 2015 Mafia Championship: Game 6

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I find Slendy's thought of "hey, maybe Cue cleared me!" to be pretty on the nose for a scum doing it. It's like that one gif of the old guy going "hello, fellow teenagers" except it'd be "hello, fellow town members." Seems to be really weird play from a scum to be that opportunistic.
i've seen scum do it, i don't think it's alignment indicative
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Old 06-17-2015, 02:52 PM   #1210
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Re: The 2015 Mafia Championship: Game 6

i like dorian's posts today

like i'm still sketched out that his wagon couldn't get any votes yesterday but idk

maybe there were just a lot of town wagons yesterday and that's the main reason why
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Old 06-17-2015, 02:54 PM   #1211
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Re: The 2015 Mafia Championship: Game 6

one thing that bothered me about achro was the he pretty much only talked about ratchet for all of eod and not about like any of the other 3+ wagons that were also around
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Old 06-17-2015, 02:54 PM   #1212
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Re: The 2015 Mafia Championship: Game 6

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afaict the case on ratchet is primarily based on his playstyle and not like other things

like i only read part of a game on his home forum but his play was pretty similar there, i said this yesterday too but i think it got ignored

i almost considered voting ratchet yesterday just because i thought he'd be one of the more difficult reads this game but i wasn't sure if that was logically sound or if i was just being ******ed and i ended up staying on smartbomb
Tbqh I'm starting to agree (and I did notice the commentary you made yesterday), but I'm still going to answer to the response. (Lost the first response due to back-clicking.)
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Old 06-17-2015, 02:57 PM   #1213
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Re: The 2015 Mafia Championship: Game 6

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i've seen scum do it, i don't think it's alignment indicative
I've seen scum do everything under the sun more or less, it's about likelyhoods though. Odds. Percentages. I like to play the odds.
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Old 06-17-2015, 02:58 PM   #1214
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Re: The 2015 Mafia Championship: Game 6

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one thing that bothered me about achro was the he pretty much only talked about ratchet for all of eod and not about like any of the other 3+ wagons that were also around
This is a straight up lie. If nothing else I heavily defended Cue the entire day, and I am pretty sure I gave brief thoughts on all of the wagons.
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Old 06-17-2015, 02:59 PM   #1215
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Re: The 2015 Mafia Championship: Game 6

i agree that fonti is probably town from her eod

especially if ratchet is mafia but i'm not gonna go there yet
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Old 06-17-2015, 03:01 PM   #1216
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Re: The 2015 Mafia Championship: Game 6

Getting up and around. Read most of the things from the ipad but skipped over the slendy/achro/ratchet text walls.
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Old 06-17-2015, 03:03 PM   #1217
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Re: The 2015 Mafia Championship: Game 6

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This is a straight up lie. If nothing else I heavily defended Cue the entire day, and I am pretty sure I gave brief thoughts on all of the wagons.
yea you said you thought most of the wagons were town about an hour before eod

but for the last 40+ minutes all of your posts except one were about ratchet

like i don't think you commented on the late smartbomb wagon at all
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Old 06-17-2015, 03:05 PM   #1218
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Re: The 2015 Mafia Championship: Game 6

What would you have liked me to say? "Update: I still think the other wagons are town?" Ratchet was something that was new to me at the time so I discussed that. What a weird thing to be bothered by.
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Old 06-17-2015, 03:07 PM   #1219
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Re: The 2015 Mafia Championship: Game 6

smartbomb was a new wagon

most people gave opinions on him but i don't think you did
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Old 06-17-2015, 03:10 PM   #1220
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Re: The 2015 Mafia Championship: Game 6

Ratchet, the mechanics-talk is stuff like you talking about whether SmartBomb's OP is in general a Scum- or a Towntell, or discussing the mathematical probabilities of actions in the game, stuff like that. While not strictly mechanics-related always, the preference of going for little details and talking about broader concepts than simply whether player X is Scum or not is the tendency I'm talking about. Admittedly, it COULD be just a playingstyle-thing, not denying that.

Fair enough wrt bhuber -- I still don't understand why road who had posted way more was less confident for you than Dorian, though? What were the things you agreed with Dorian and fontisiac to include them as Townleans?

There exist playertypes who always post in the manner you do, yes. But I find it more often coming from Scum.
The posting style I'm talking about is an active or semi-active one (like you), who is present in the Thread as much as possible. You comment on as many details as possible, but don't (always) seem to follow up on them. You go from observation A to observation B in a list-like manner even when posting in real-time, instead of seeming to pursue anything with your actions, or having a definite impression on the 'whole'. Hence, the motif behind the posts can be summed up as 'posting for the sake of posting'.
The compilation posts, then, seem like 'check-points' that are intended to cover all bases. The posting style tells of a player that is very self-aware, in other words. Most players are more self-aware as Scum. Hence, the pings, and stating you are reactionary rather than proactive.

Looks like I derped and you did indeed ask me about the pressure vote way early.
It was mostly a RVS-vote, but I did find you the likeliest to flip Scum of the handful of people who had thus far posted, so it wasn't completely random. But it definitely wasn't any serious form of pressure YET at that point of the game -- could've evolved into that, had I not been pinged by Dorian soon after.

What I mean by the Dorian-vote is that you mentioned more than once that you found it somewhat suspect that I didn't elaborate on it -- once I did elaborate on it, you ignored that. Or did you? Did you accept my reasoning behind it, or did you still hold my handling of the Dorian-vote against me?

Expressing surprise isn't alignment-indicative, but that wasn't my point. They way you expressed surprise seemed somewhat 'crafted' to me. As if you were, again, self-aware to the extent that you thought in advance what your response would seem like rather than just responding in the spur of the moment.
Regardless of whether you were insulted at all or very deeply (not relevant), the point about Scum typically going "wah I'm caught for the wrong reasons" still stands.

If you find Cue Scummy OF COURSE IT SHOULD MAKE SENSE TO LYNCH THEM. That's all the reason ever NEEDED for a Lynch! Especially since almost everyone online at the time pointed out to you that Lynching a player who's actually been around is MORE informative than Lynching an inactive, (almost) regardless of the former's style of posting.
Plus you DID end up Voting Bomb for purely self-preservation, did you not? Not saying that it's necessarily a bad thing, but I am curious why not Voting a Player you've found Scummy for a long time should make you, IYO, look great when you clearly (and naturally, regardless of your affiliation) WERE ready to go down the self-preservation-route?
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Old 06-17-2015, 03:10 PM   #1221
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Re: The 2015 Mafia Championship: Game 6

like if you're pushing a wagon for 30 minutes and all of a sudden a new one comes up and ties with the wagon you've been pushing i would've expected at least a comment on it

idk
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Old 06-17-2015, 03:10 PM   #1222
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Re: The 2015 Mafia Championship: Game 6

Reading cue for SHC is a good place to start.

Dorian why do you think that me and riki were the only two people pushing on you and couldn't get anyone else's votes EoD?

In your reads you have him listed as town and myself as town. What was scum doing?
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Old 06-17-2015, 03:12 PM   #1223
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Re: The 2015 Mafia Championship: Game 6

Hm, you're right I actually never did. I remember thinking his language sounded townie but I guess I never verbalized that, just attacked Ratchet. That doesn't make your generalized statement of not commenting on any other wagons true though, so I stand by that it is a weird, broad stroke to make when I merely failed to comment on one wagon.
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Old 06-17-2015, 03:13 PM   #1224
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Re: The 2015 Mafia Championship: Game 6

like this is my problem with ratchet

i think he would give this exact same defense as town or as scum

so i don't really have any idea what to do with it

is problem
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Old 06-17-2015, 03:13 PM   #1225
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Re: The 2015 Mafia Championship: Game 6

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Banks: Banks didn't change much during end-of-day. He had his 3 scumreads (me/slendy/smartbomb), and he stuck with them to the bitter end. Even though I know he is wrong about 2 of them, and I think he's actually wrong about all 3. He's got such a town playstyle that almost everyone including me called him town, though I very much hate his style of convincing others to vote with him.

I'm dialing him back down, for a few reasons. First, he could never have gotten away with a vote on cue this game. The only way for him to get rid of cue is the nightkill, and cue was one of the few who actually had the guts to vote him at some point early in the day. Second, his "fake peek" or whatever you guys call it on Riki was probably one of the safest people anyone could have picked at the time he picked it. It was really easy to like his scumhunting style and agree with everyone else's reads, but small points are slowly starting to add up. I guess maybe slight town still, but way closer to null than yesterday.

Slendy: We're back to Riki's and my conversation about my first read on him. Even with a hard reset, he's acting pretty much exactly the same when he came back as he did at the beginning, and as he did in game 5. I misread him horribly when I read game 5, and I'm wary of making the same mistake again. He came back into the thread with a lot of votes on him, and handled it exactly like it should be handled. I'm still very undecided on whether or not Ratchet was the best choice for him to push for the lynch yesterday, but that doesn't change my opinion on how I feel he's playing this game. Town, for now I suppose top 3 to save.
Why is the only way I could have killed cue assuming I'm scum is by night kill? All I would simply have to do is be like "you know what fonti I have reconsidered on cue. OR I could have voted him when II was defending ratchet to "save ratchet" ez game ez rares if I was a wolf.
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