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Old 06-16-2015, 11:50 AM   #676
DocEspana
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Re: The 2015 Mafia Championship: Game 6

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Originally Posted by MSU View Post
So is this town leaning for you then?




It was because you didn't include ^^this^^ in your vote.

On day 1, saying you are voting for pressure, in my boards, is a scum tell. Pure and simple. With 20+ hours left, completely scum tell.

Or as you put it, culture difference.

Thank you for looking at my old game though - I am trying to decide if that makes you more town or less town. Ehhh, more town as of right now.

Remove vote

I take back my automatic kill of you.
I feel like defending you is potentially dangerous to my health, but I cannot stress enough that I am in full agreement with your points here. Including that everything I've ever seen says this is a wolf move when people have hours and hours left and cite pressure.

Could people consider going through MSUs posts again and re evaluating him. I get such a strong feeling this is a mistake voting him.
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Old 06-16-2015, 12:01 PM   #677
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Re: The 2015 Mafia Championship: Game 6

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Originally Posted by cue5c View Post
So, since we're on the topic of bios, let's talk about yours and the particular ones you chose. 2 things stand out:

1. Storytelling
2. Even when scummy as all hell, you're still town.

Now, is point 2 a facet of point 1? Is your bio just an attempt to protect yourself if scum? I ask this because you seem to be doing something I do as mafia quite a bit, and that's to recontextualize the blanks in what others haven't said by tellin people what you were doing.... Even though it's not necessary at this point. Saying I jumped on your bandwagon is a stretch, especially as I work out people by judging their mindset a and what I pointed out about you changing your play for this is a mindset thing. I think I have focused on low hanging fruit, but not with you. We'll see where you end up with in a couple days. I hope I'm still alive to see the change in your play.
I let actual other high caliber players write it for me. You already saw my one attempt by making a fake hubbub over some.stupid aspect of play and see who tries to bite and go after me over something so trivial and non game related. People hate that I'm testing them, but I find it to be a comically good wolf test. Also, I've been known to prefer to lie about my role and powers as a villager to catch a wolf rather than be honest and let a feeling go on a hard to pin down wolf. It's a skill which is all but useless in a game that is this simple, role wise. Can't really lie about my role. If I'm a villager implying I'm the cop gets me killed quicker. If I'm the cop I'm always gonna say I'm plain villager to avoid being killed quicker (but this lie imparts no advantage strategically). And wolves obviously are posing as vanilla villagers. But over in more advanced games it becomes a great technique if used judiciously and only when the benefit is very high and you really taste the blood in the water. Doesn't endear me friends, but does earn me respect there.

I guess I could fake being the cop to force a vote off of someone I like. Say I seered them. But that just gets me killed the next night and probably pisses off the actual cop.
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Old 06-16-2015, 12:07 PM   #678
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Re: The 2015 Mafia Championship: Game 6

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Originally Posted by DocEspana View Post
I feel like defending you is potentially dangerous to my health, but I cannot stress enough that I am in full agreement with your points here. Including that everything I've ever seen says this is a wolf move when people have hours and hours left and cite pressure.

Could people consider going through MSUs posts again and re evaluating him. I get such a strong feeling this is a mistake voting him.
I concur. Voting for me is hazardous to our collective healths.
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Old 06-16-2015, 12:08 PM   #679
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Re: The 2015 Mafia Championship: Game 6

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I don't disagree with this assessment of me. I am generally not a confrontational person (maybe I shouldn't be playing mafia!). And, as you have also said, once there's actually a flip and some info, it's much easier to start having stronger opinions. My early game is typically finding the people I believe are most likely to be innocent, and then going from process of elimination.

It's day 1. Most people are going about whatever strategy they like to use to "solve the game," and I'm content to let them do it. I'm not convinced that it works very well on day 1, but plenty of people here think it does and have much more experience with it, and I'd be a fool to think I could lead the conversation this early in the game like they are.

To sum up the above:



Huh. Me too, and yet you find fault with me for doing it.

One more thought on Doc's reads in 638 and 639 - he mentions 8 of the other 12 players, and comes up with 1 town (Banks), 3 mafia or slight mafia leans (me, cue, Ratchet), and the other 4 sound like essentially null reads to me. For someone who claims, like me, to be much more comfortable making reads after there's some info out there, that's very few townreads and a lot of scumreads. I haven't seen anyone else come close to putting out 3 times as many scumreads as townreads. It's odd.

So I think Doc and I feel mutually towards each other. Not my top choice for a lynch yet, I don't think, but I'd be ok voting here for the various reasons above. Several people pushed on and defended him fairly early on, so it would also be a fairly informative lynch.

Actually I think we see a lot of each other in our posts. Which you called on page one.

And you're really a neutral read. I just didn't understand why others were effusively putting you in villager land. You didn't do anything villagery. Also did noyhing suspicious. You just did what is necessary to prove you are paying attention and are coming up with ideas, soft as they may be. I was surprised so many people were do strongly comfortable with that as opposed to just neutrally acknowledging it.

But it's the pot calling the kettle black. It's exactly what should be said about me (once you factor out my attempt to draw ire over something purposely not game related to see who actually felt that was lynch worthy). So carry on!
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Old 06-16-2015, 12:11 PM   #680
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Re: The 2015 Mafia Championship: Game 6

I'm going to wait around and see what bhuber (want to write Bieber badly) has to say.
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Old 06-16-2015, 12:15 PM   #681
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Re: The 2015 Mafia Championship: Game 6

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Originally Posted by DocEspana View Post


I let actual other high caliber players write it for me. You already saw my one attempt by making a fake hubbub over some.stupid aspect of play and see who tries to bite and go after me over something so trivial and non game related. People hate that I'm testing them, but I find it to be a comically good wolf test. Also, I've been known to prefer to lie about my role and powers as a villager to catch a wolf rather than be honest and let a feeling go on a hard to pin down wolf. It's a skill which is all but useless in a game that is this simple, role wise. Can't really lie about my role. If I'm a villager implying I'm the cop gets me killed quicker. If I'm the cop I'm always gonna say I'm plain villager to avoid being killed quicker (but this lie imparts no advantage strategically). And wolves obviously are posing as vanilla villagers. But over in more advanced games it becomes a great technique if used judiciously and only when the benefit is very high and you really taste the blood in the water. Doesn't endear me friends, but does earn me respect there.

I guess I could fake being the cop to force a vote off of someone I like. Say I seered them. But that just gets me killed the next night and probably pisses off the actual cop.
Thanks, this helps clear up some issues I have with you. You're taking complex game logic and trying to join it with that of a simple game. I disagree that claiming cop will get you killed fast in a game like this. I think there's actually a good chance you'd survive longer as why would the only power role claim unless it was at least Day 3? But that's getting a little too far ahead of myself and my ideas.

I hope you mean on another site that "people hate that you're testing them", because I've seen none of that here and will concern me if that's how you're reading things.
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Old 06-16-2015, 12:22 PM   #682
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Re: The 2015 Mafia Championship: Game 6

Can we embed videos? I feel like I need to bring back posting Jem music videos in responses. It's been too long.
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Old 06-16-2015, 12:23 PM   #683
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Re: The 2015 Mafia Championship: Game 6

Yea. I mean people in general (and really people in my past) not the people here.
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Old 06-16-2015, 12:25 PM   #684
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Re: The 2015 Mafia Championship: Game 6

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Originally Posted by cue5c View Post
Can we embed videos? I feel like I need to bring back posting Jem music videos in responses. It's been too long.
if you do that, I will you.

Who doesn't love a good Jem video?

Why was it so busy yesterday and now it's...dead?
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Old 06-16-2015, 12:32 PM   #685
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Re: The 2015 Mafia Championship: Game 6



Success!
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Old 06-16-2015, 12:38 PM   #686
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Re: The 2015 Mafia Championship: Game 6

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if you do that, I will you.
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Old 06-16-2015, 12:42 PM   #687
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Re: The 2015 Mafia Championship: Game 6

Ugh, it says errors occurred so maybe it won't work.
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Old 06-16-2015, 12:49 PM   #688
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Re: The 2015 Mafia Championship: Game 6

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if you do that, I will you.


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Old 06-16-2015, 12:54 PM   #689
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Posted from a freakin mac

Votes from post 9 to post 688
Night in 07:06:38

---
VotesLynchVoters
5 MSU bhuber2010 (16), RatchetOPB (49), Riki (101), SmartBomb (37), TehBankertin (161)
2 bhuber2010 cue5c (83), MSU (32)
2 cue5c DocEspana (25), fontisian (44)
1 DocEspana Achromatic (38)
1 dorian78 Slendy (19)
2 not voting dorian78 (21), road (47)
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Old 06-16-2015, 01:05 PM   #690
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Re: The 2015 Mafia Championship: Game 6

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Originally Posted by cue5c View Post
Yes, but "someone trying to mimic their town play, but not in a mafia way" is pretty damn specific.
I see what you mean there, but I did intend it in a completely different way. It was more related to people trying to represent their playstyles on a different format, which isn't easy all the time and often requires a conscious effort. I do believe I was clear enough on that though, so it does come across as you twisting this to suit your purpose.
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I'm not saying that was your intent, though I did push that, but it's coming off to me like you're trying to downplay any attention on you. It's really mostly gut vibes, but it's day 1 and something I'd rather not ignore.
I don't agree there either. I'm not so much downplaying it as attempting to attack reasons against me. That's something I'll always do, I don't like leaving points against me hanging for fear of being accused of cherry picking or the like. There is a game from last year where I was town and explained this in greater detail, I can link it here if you want me to.

Quote:
Originally Posted by MSU View Post
It isn't why me - but I just explained it in I think the post above this.

It was just "a pressure vote" which to me is "I am too lazy to explain why I am voting...oh for pressure!" which on my boards, is a scum tell.

But I removed my vote for now. he leans wolf for me.
I think we see pressure differently. I agree that it can be quite lazy reasoning, to simply say it's mere pressure, but for Day 1, where I'm from it's often considered a good thing to pressure people, as it shows you are looking for information. This could, of course be down to the fact that until a year or so ago, the meta for the community for Day 1 was a lot of off-topic posts and very little productivity - so introducing pressure instantly made Day 1 better for Town.
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Old 06-16-2015, 01:19 PM   #691
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Re: The 2015 Mafia Championship: Game 6

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Originally Posted by RatchetOPB View Post
I see what you mean there, but I did intend it in a completely different way. It was more related to people trying to represent their playstyles on a different format, which isn't easy all the time and often requires a conscious effort. I do believe I was clear enough on that though, so it does come across as you twisting this to suit your purpose.
Do you tend to view twisting as something you'd mainly see used by scum?
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Old 06-16-2015, 01:23 PM   #692
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Re: The 2015 Mafia Championship: Game 6

Fontisian
DocEspana
TehBankertin
SmartBomb

Riki
dorian78
RatchetOPB
Achromatic

MSU
road

Slendy
bhuber2010

cue5c

Let's see. DocEspana has me completely pocketed by his Cue vote. He's also my peak. Banks is town for that call-to-arms post, which I think is a step too far for his scum game. With any luck, he'll get shot and I'll never have to reassess there. Smart Bomb's reaction to dorian's townread early on and his subsequent reassessment were great. The only reason he's at the bottom of the strong reads is that he mentioned Banks "scares" him in post 73. I'm pretty much ride or die with these three.

Riki is consistently active with good points. He was also the one to bring up how cue started asking pointless questions. Dorian reacted the same way I did to the SmartBomb early on. Ratchet seems to be seeking information instead of pushing an agenda. Achromatic is generally solid, but I've been duped by his scum game before, so there's a reason he's at the bottom of my town reads. He becomes significantly townier if Cue is scum, as I don't think Cue would have buddied a scummate like that.

I've got nothing on road and MSU.

Something still pings me about Slendy, but I don't know what it is, and he responded well to pressure, so. Would lynch, but would not lynch first. I'm not fond of bhuber's opening, actually, as confidence like that is feigned as often as it's genuine. I also don't like his read on me or the fact that he disappeared off the face of the earth. Cue's vote for him could be distancing, since MSU is going down, or it could be a push on a townie, making it frustratingly useless.

The case against Cue has already been outlined in detail. To summarize:
1. He wasn't trying until I called him out for not trying.
2. His questions after that point lack purpose.
3. His pushes are weak to avoid scrutiny, the exact thing he accused me of doing. This is because he believes it to be an ideal strategy.
4. He has a tendency to try to buddy up to stronger players, namely Achromatic.
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Old 06-16-2015, 01:28 PM   #693
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Re: The 2015 Mafia Championship: Game 6

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Originally Posted by fontisian View Post
Fontisian
DocEspana
TehBankertin
SmartBomb

Riki
dorian78
RatchetOPB
Achromatic

MSU
road

Slendy
bhuber2010

cue5c

Let's see. DocEspana has me completely pocketed by his Cue vote. He's also my peak. Banks is town for that call-to-arms post, which I think is a step too far for his scum game. With any luck, he'll get shot and I'll never have to reassess there. Smart Bomb's reaction to dorian's townread early on and his subsequent reassessment were great. The only reason he's at the bottom of the strong reads is that he mentioned Banks "scares" him in post 73. I'm pretty much ride or die with these three.

Riki is consistently active with good points. He was also the one to bring up how cue started asking pointless questions. Dorian reacted the same way I did to the SmartBomb early on. Ratchet seems to be seeking information instead of pushing an agenda. Achromatic is generally solid, but I've been duped by his scum game before, so there's a reason he's at the bottom of my town reads. He becomes significantly townier if Cue is scum, as I don't think Cue would have buddied a scummate like that.

I've got nothing on road and MSU.

Something still pings me about Slendy, but I don't know what it is, and he responded well to pressure, so. Would lynch, but would not lynch first. I'm not fond of bhuber's opening, actually, as confidence like that is feigned as often as it's genuine. I also don't like his read on me or the fact that he disappeared off the face of the earth. Cue's vote for him could be distancing, since MSU is going down, or it could be a push on a townie, making it frustratingly useless.

The case against Cue has already been outlined in detail. To summarize:
1. He wasn't trying until I called him out for not trying.
2. His questions after that point lack purpose.
3. His pushes are weak to avoid scrutiny, the exact thing he accused me of doing. This is because he believes it to be an ideal strategy.
4. He has a tendency to try to buddy up to stronger players, namely Achromatic.
Your read on me and my actions are so off it's funny. But if you don't see purpose in what I do, it's apparently me being pointless. Noted.

What do you think my read on Achromatic is?
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Old 06-16-2015, 01:29 PM   #694
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Re: The 2015 Mafia Championship: Game 6

You're townreading him, correct?

If you're town, cue, convince me. Explain what you're doing. Even if you're not, at least try.
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Old 06-16-2015, 01:33 PM   #695
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Re: The 2015 Mafia Championship: Game 6

sup
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Old 06-16-2015, 01:34 PM   #696
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Re: The 2015 Mafia Championship: Game 6

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When have you palyed with slendy?
i played with him 2-3 times on his forum a couple of months ago
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Old 06-16-2015, 01:38 PM   #697
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Re: The 2015 Mafia Championship: Game 6

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Like, he's been both right and strong the entire game and I really like that, generally I don't like people who are right but his... tone, while doing so, I guess, doesn't read scum to me. I think he's the towniest guy in the game so far, might even go over Banks.
i think you've used this line a bunch of times so far and i'm not sure i understand what it means
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Old 06-16-2015, 01:39 PM   #698
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Re: The 2015 Mafia Championship: Game 6

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You're townreading him, correct?

If you're town, cue, convince me. Explain what you're doing. Even if you're not, at least try.
The thing is, convincing one person I'm town in exchange for the power I have isn't worth it. But I will say this: At least one person every game who I think is scum, I will town read them to see how they react to me. He is not a town read to me. His silence is baffling considering he said he needs to be a part of things in order to get reads. He's entirely absent for the most part. I understand backing off if he was the center of discussion and therefore got reads that way, but he's not. He's just accepting being read as town. Surviving to the end means nothing if you don't have any idea of who scum is, and according to him and his self-meta, he's not doing anything to figure that out.

Plus I'm pretty suspicious of anyone who reads me town Day 1. I'm at a disadvantage because others have meta to go off of. I'm not looking at banks previous games and as far as I'm concerned, people calling him town could be teammates going with a general consensus, or people trying to get in his good favor (if he's town). I'm not gonna play that game. If it takes my flip for people to see me as town, that's fine. And if it looks like that's the case, I'll reveal my thoughts. Until then, I'm going to continue down this same path. And I really don't feel like convincing you of anything as you've already made your mind up about me and I have you as a town read and don't like begging. It's more fun to see who follows you since mafia knows I'm not one of them, anyway.
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Old 06-16-2015, 01:41 PM   #699
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Re: The 2015 Mafia Championship: Game 6

Smartbomb: You mentioned that my vote jumped a lot early on. In the game we played a while back, I was town and you attacked me for doing the same thing. Does that effect your read of me?
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Old 06-16-2015, 01:45 PM   #700
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Re: The 2015 Mafia Championship: Game 6

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bhuber's only few posts were to point at MSU and give quickreads.

I have a problem with this, it seems like the obvious route that we would probably end on (considering literally no-one is reading MSU as town) and therefore an obvious bus. Obviously MSU hasn't flipped scum yet and on Day 1 I don't like to believe any flip is certain but regardless of MSU's flip bhuber is actually looking fairly scummy to me. I was giving him a pass for being so confident but it's... eh. Remove tone from bhuber and he's done the same thing MSU did, obviously tone is a big factor though.

I feel like this is like my dorian push earlier because it seems that bhuber has potential and in like 12 hours when he starts posting again I'll start to like him better, but bhuber in hindsight is starting to get on my mind.

I'm gonna ISO road's game 3 posts and then the posts here now, see if I don't get a better feel for him now.
why would no one reading msu as town mean that msu must be being bussed? like that seems like a strange and not the obvious conclusion, i think the fact that no one has really come to his defense or that he's been the lead wagon and the other wagons have been pretty stagnant for a while makes it look better for msu, not worse
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