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Old 06-16-2015, 10:01 AM   #651
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Re: The 2015 Mafia Championship: Game 6

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Originally Posted by TehBankertin View Post
really? MSU can you back this up?
On my site, we never lynch on day 1. Maybe 2% of the time?

HUGE adjustment for me on day 1 for my first game. And after the game, my boards were like "WTF happened in that game?"

And in the end, on day 1 in the game 2 on the championship, we lynched a town who i pretty much thought was town but felt forced to vote for because of the mentality that everyone brought.

(doing run by postings between meetings...)
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Old 06-16-2015, 10:04 AM   #652
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Re: The 2015 Mafia Championship: Game 6

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Originally Posted by Riki View Post
bhuber
is my peek
I am so confused by this - what do people mean by this?

(serious question - i thought people were being funny but I honestly have no idea what this means)
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Old 06-16-2015, 10:09 AM   #653
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Re: The 2015 Mafia Championship: Game 6

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Originally Posted by Riki View Post
ratchet
i think he's been playing the game in kind of like a relaxed way so far, like he's posting opinions and arguing with people but isn't really going hard at anyone, he's probably going to be a relatively hard person to get a read on in this game

haven't really had any big problems with anything he's posted though so there's that

the part where cue accused him of openly seerhunting itt and him completely not getting what cue was accusing him of was pretty interesting and maybe looks good for him? at least in the sense that it wasn't meant to be him seerhunting i guess
So is this town leaning for you then?


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msu
i read his previous game and didn't really find anything too different outside of him being less active in this one. although i'm not that great at comparing iso's of different games if i wasn't part of those games, but yeah

i thought his vote on me was weird, like i didn't feel like it's difficult to believe that i was only voting msu for pressure? like given the types of posts that i've made in this game up until that point, when i end up voting msu with only the words "it's been 3-4 hours", voting for pressure seems like the obvious conclusion

he said at some point "why are you voting me for pressure, there's 20+ hours" left or something like that so it could be a culture thing but that's pretty weird
It was because you didn't include ^^this^^ in your vote.

On day 1, saying you are voting for pressure, in my boards, is a scum tell. Pure and simple. With 20+ hours left, completely scum tell.

Or as you put it, culture difference.

Thank you for looking at my old game though - I am trying to decide if that makes you more town or less town. Ehhh, more town as of right now.

Remove vote

I take back my automatic kill of you.
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Old 06-16-2015, 10:12 AM   #654
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Re: The 2015 Mafia Championship: Game 6

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Originally Posted by RatchetOPB View Post
And I think this is scummy as well. "Why me?" - why not should be the question. Has he got any reason not to pressure you?
It isn't why me - but I just explained it in I think the post above this.

It was just "a pressure vote" which to me is "I am too lazy to explain why I am voting...oh for pressure!" which on my boards, is a scum tell.

But I removed my vote for now. he leans wolf for me.
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Old 06-16-2015, 10:20 AM   #655
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Re: The 2015 Mafia Championship: Game 6

Annnnd I have to go back into meetings.

5 votes is impressive for day 1.

What can I say except you are all very, very, very wrong about me.

As Doc said, I am being railroaded because apparently I am not up to caliber to the rest of your standards on reads. If that is the case, then lynch me because day 1 is not my strong point. But you will refret it if you are looking for a scum day 1 because I am not mafia.

But as I have read through the thread, my initial accuser, bhuber comes in, reads me, leaves, hasn't posted since, no one mentions it.

I am gonna mention it - bhuber - I would like your take on others, specifically though - Road, Banksy, and Smartbomb.
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Old 06-16-2015, 10:26 AM   #656
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Re: The 2015 Mafia Championship: Game 6

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Originally Posted by SmartBomb View Post
bhuber's only few posts were to point at MSU and give quickreads.

I have a problem with this, it seems like the obvious route that we would probably end on (considering literally no-one is reading MSU as town) and therefore an obvious bus. Obviously MSU hasn't flipped scum yet and on Day 1 I don't like to believe any flip is certain but regardless of MSU's flip bhuber is actually looking fairly scummy to me. I was giving him a pass for being so confident but it's... eh. Remove tone from bhuber and he's done the same thing MSU did, obviously tone is a big factor though.
I disagree strongly with this. At the time bhuber presented his case on MSU, MSU had made few posts, had said he was unexpectedly busy and wouldn't be back until much later, and no one else had even mentioned him at all, aside from perhaps wishing he could have more of a presence. Maybe it's because I have very little experience with this format, but I don't think he was any more obvious a route than any other at that point. bhuber may not have had much of a presence and done much for me other than a vague good start, but saying that he's scummy for predicting an obvious outcome that I don't think was remotely obvious at the time, I think that's a pretty poor reason to call him scummy.

The bolded part also strikes me as odd. It's not something I would say, because I know that I won't be certain about any lynch this game (I guess the exception being if the person being lynched admits they're caught...). I can't imagine needing to remind myself (or others) of that fact. And why would any lynch later in the game be more likely to be certain? Like, what makes Day 1 different? These 2 things probably negate whatever town-leans I had on Smartbomb.
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Old 06-16-2015, 10:27 AM   #657
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Re: The 2015 Mafia Championship: Game 6

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Originally Posted by RatchetOPB View Post
Good, I thought I was abandoned.

What do you think of Riki? After those reads, I'm putting him down as lean town because I like the effort put into them, it feels genuine and informative.
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Which is weird because I feel like MSU, if scum, is protecting Riki if he ends up being the lynch.
Protecting Riki from what?
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Old 06-16-2015, 10:27 AM   #658
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Re: The 2015 Mafia Championship: Game 6

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Originally Posted by DocEspana View Post
So dorian puts me in an odd position. Really really odd position. You see multiple times he has been very "friendly" towards me and I appreciate that. but its strikes me repeatedly as too friendly. On top of that his logic on various issues just seems... How do I put this. It seems like he would rather encourage other people to double down on their claims rather than really putting his neck out. It probably makes lots of people feel nice to have someone keep stroking their ego and agreeing with them, but you really cant agree with everyone all the time. He did have some minor squabbles withe people, but it was a tiny snippet of what he did all day. Im not throwing my vote down for him, but I also dont understand why everyone is finding him to have a villager-feel unless they enjoy being ego stroked.

Cue is... that dude is on a differnet world. He plays like someone with something to hide. I didnt find any of his arguments for people to have *paritcular* merit. And he took some swipes at me when I was playing loud and brash that struck me as aiming for low hanging fruit.Which is exactly what I was hoping for. Someone who has a tenous argument for being a villager who seemed to have gone after me as a "jump on the bandwagon" type deal.

Banker: hey buddy. Sorry about voting for you. Let me make this right. You seem cool. You deserve to live longer. Good god you post a lot, but I can enjoy that.

Ratchet: I honestly want to dislike you, and I'm gonna lean you wolf in my book. but its not like you are playing horribly. I just dont feel comfortable with some of your recent arguments. Especially that you dont see the merit of me looking at the bios. It was uncharted territory and I, again, dont know any of you. I am trying to see if anyone is clearly not meshing with their normal play style. I know I have an amorphous play style, but I have some tells when wolf. But really I am looking for someone who prides themself on brash play being conservative or slow logical play going balls-to-the-wall. There really isnt anyone posting much of anything about their play style. I think only 4 of us 13 even mentioned our playstyle. Anchrom was riding my ass hard about the "villager call" stuff. Harder than he had any right to do. and then he complained I sounded too personally angry (i wasnt, but its hard to tell this stuff by type) when I responded back. So since he was one of the four who had playstyle mentioned I looked and... damnit... he fully admits its how he likes to do it. Even down to accentuating he likes to find fun in the game, which backs up him getting on me about being "mean". Okay. Fine. But you then going and calling it a weak move? Come on man. Plus all of your posts are basically just going and "me too-ing" other peoples points. Every one I can see. Its adding nothing. Coming from a guy who worked or slept almost all day, thats saying a lot.

Chromie: I like your avatar. Plus you're being so incredibly honest about stuff. Cant fault you yet.

MSU: I appreciate that youre one of three people who understood what I was getting at. I think you're getting unfairly railroaded a bit here by others but Im also not going to stand in the way of it. There is a bit of self preservation at play here. Just gonna be honest. You are playing dead and true nuetral to me. you should defend yourself, son.

switch my vote over to cue
So, since we're on the topic of bios, let's talk about yours and the particular ones you chose. 2 things stand out:

1. Storytelling
2. Even when scummy as all hell, you're still town.

Now, is point 2 a facet of point 1? Is your bio just an attempt to protect yourself if scum? I ask this because you seem to be doing something I do as mafia quite a bit, and that's to recontextualize the blanks in what others haven't said by tellin people what you were doing.... Even though it's not necessary at this point. Saying I jumped on your bandwagon is a stretch, especially as I work out people by judging their mindset a and what I pointed out about you changing your play for this is a mindset thing. I think I have focused on low hanging fruit, but not with you. We'll see where you end up with in a couple days. I hope I'm still alive to see the change in your play.
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Old 06-16-2015, 10:30 AM   #659
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Re: The 2015 Mafia Championship: Game 6

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Originally Posted by DocEspana View Post
So dorian puts me in an odd position. Really really odd position. You see multiple times he has been very "friendly" towards me and I appreciate that. but its strikes me repeatedly as too friendly. On top of that his logic on various issues just seems... How do I put this. It seems like he would rather encourage other people to double down on their claims rather than really putting his neck out. It probably makes lots of people feel nice to have someone keep stroking their ego and agreeing with them, but you really cant agree with everyone all the time. He did have some minor squabbles withe people, but it was a tiny snippet of what he did all day. Im not throwing my vote down for him, but I also dont understand why everyone is finding him to have a villager-feel unless they enjoy being ego stroked.
I don't disagree with this assessment of me. I am generally not a confrontational person (maybe I shouldn't be playing mafia!). And, as you have also said, once there's actually a flip and some info, it's much easier to start having stronger opinions. My early game is typically finding the people I believe are most likely to be innocent, and then going from process of elimination.

It's day 1. Most people are going about whatever strategy they like to use to "solve the game," and I'm content to let them do it. I'm not convinced that it works very well on day 1, but plenty of people here think it does and have much more experience with it, and I'd be a fool to think I could lead the conversation this early in the game like they are.

To sum up the above:

Quote:
Originally Posted by DocEspana View Post
Dont want to take a strong stance (and I often take strong stances) on people's actions with so little concrete data. Having a dead villager/wolf tonight will let me have some idea of who was right and wrong.
Huh. Me too, and yet you find fault with me for doing it.

One more thought on Doc's reads in 638 and 639 - he mentions 8 of the other 12 players, and comes up with 1 town (Banks), 3 mafia or slight mafia leans (me, cue, Ratchet), and the other 4 sound like essentially null reads to me. For someone who claims, like me, to be much more comfortable making reads after there's some info out there, that's very few townreads and a lot of scumreads. I haven't seen anyone else come close to putting out 3 times as many scumreads as townreads. It's odd.

So I think Doc and I feel mutually towards each other. Not my top choice for a lynch yet, I don't think, but I'd be ok voting here for the various reasons above. Several people pushed on and defended him fairly early on, so it would also be a fairly informative lynch.
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Old 06-16-2015, 10:35 AM   #660
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Re: The 2015 Mafia Championship: Game 6

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Originally Posted by MSU View Post
I am gonna mention it - bhuber - I would like your take on others, specifically though - Road, Banksy, and Smartbomb.
An OMGUS vote? Oh man, that's not helping your case. I was kind of on your side as being an easy target up until now, as I pretty much still had you at null. This, though, is a poor way to deal with the pressure. I wish I knew your playstyle better to know if it's much of a scumtell or if you're just really bad at dealing with pressure.
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Old 06-16-2015, 10:42 AM   #661
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Re: The 2015 Mafia Championship: Game 6

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Originally Posted by MSU View Post
Protecting Riki from what?
Your vote on Riki, if you're scum, could be read as you looking and pushing someone else you think is a viable lynch or trying to appear that way to protect a partner.

It's similar to my feelings on Dorian, who says he thinks one of fonti and I are scum. I happen to think we're both likely town and he's setting up a lynch on the other depending on which one of us flips first.

It's weird, and maybe it's nothing, but it sticks out to me. Especially in a game where so many people are giving town reads for someone being logical in a clear and concise way.
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Old 06-16-2015, 10:53 AM   #662
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Re: The 2015 Mafia Championship: Game 6

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Originally Posted by cue5c View Post
It's similar to my feelings on Dorian, who says he thinks one of fonti and I are scum. I happen to think we're both likely town and he's setting up a lynch on the other depending on which one of us flips first.
To be clear, I've said that I don't think you're both scum. I never ruled out the possibility that you're both town, though you're right, I've probably been a little more focused on the scenarios where one of you is, just because those scenarios are more informative.
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Old 06-16-2015, 11:11 AM   #663
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Re: The 2015 Mafia Championship: Game 6

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Originally Posted by dorian78 View Post
To be clear, I've said that I don't think you're both scum. I never ruled out the possibility that you're both town, though you're right, I've probably been a little more focused on the scenarios where one of you is, just because those scenarios are more informative.
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Old 06-16-2015, 11:16 AM   #664
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Re: The 2015 Mafia Championship: Game 6

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Originally Posted by dorian78 View Post
An OMGUS vote? Oh man, that's not helping your case. I was kind of on your side as being an easy target up until now, as I pretty much still had you at null. This, though, is a poor way to deal with the pressure. I wish I knew your playstyle better to know if it's much of a scumtell or if you're just really bad at dealing with pressure.
What is an OMGUS vote?

And I asked for this because I want to see how he reads other people.
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Old 06-16-2015, 11:19 AM   #665
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Re: The 2015 Mafia Championship: Game 6

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Originally Posted by dorian78 View Post
An OMGUS vote? Oh man, that's not helping your case. I was kind of on your side as being an easy target up until now, as I pretty much still had you at null. This, though, is a poor way to deal with the pressure. I wish I knew your playstyle better to know if it's much of a scumtell or if you're just really bad at dealing with pressure.
Actually, I want to expand on this.

I am getting pounded for not providing detailed enough reads, being soft, and at first, doing postings that seemed not to contribute to anything.

Bhuber called me out on this.

I have spent the last day defending myself on this.

Now, I am asking Bhuber to do the same thing that was asked/expected of me.

How is this scummy? Why is me asking for information from bhuber any different from someone asking me? How am I scummy on this?
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Old 06-16-2015, 11:20 AM   #666
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Re: The 2015 Mafia Championship: Game 6

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What is an OMGUS vote?

And I asked for this because I want to see how he reads other people.
Oh my god you suck. It's basically coming up with a flimsy reason to vote the person who voted for you.
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Old 06-16-2015, 11:20 AM   #667
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Re: The 2015 Mafia Championship: Game 6

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I am so confused by this - what do people mean by this?

(serious question - i thought people were being funny but I honestly have no idea what this means)
Bringing this up again - what is the "peek" thing that everyone posts about.
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Old 06-16-2015, 11:20 AM   #668
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Re: The 2015 Mafia Championship: Game 6

Bhuber Swift
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Old 06-16-2015, 11:26 AM   #669
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Re: The 2015 Mafia Championship: Game 6

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Oh my god you suck. It's basically coming up with a flimsy reason to vote the person who voted for you.
At first I was like "Eff you Cue! I don't suck I just don't know all the terms you....oh...that is what that means...ha..."

I detest the reasoning that you can't turn the tables back on every situation.

How is that flimsy?

@dorian WHY is me asking bhuber to expound on others scummy?

Others have....why shouldn't he be held to the same caliber of play that you all are expecting of me.

You guys play a very different game of mafia then I do. It's fascinating!
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Old 06-16-2015, 11:29 AM   #670
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Re: The 2015 Mafia Championship: Game 6

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Actually, I want to expand on this.

I am getting pounded for not providing detailed enough reads, being soft, and at first, doing postings that seemed not to contribute to anything.

Bhuber called me out on this.

I have spent the last day defending myself on this.

Now, I am asking Bhuber to do the same thing that was asked/expected of me.

How is this scummy? Why is me asking for information from bhuber any different from someone asking me? How am I scummy on this?
Yeah, OMGUS is voting back the person that voted you for not much of a reason. Asking him for information was great. I want to see his answer. I still wish you both were around at the same time, because it's harder to see the clear interaction with the big delays.

Voting him at this point is just an attention-getter, though. It's not even pressure when he doesn't have any other votes. Do you actually have any reason to suspect him or want him lynched? More so than anyone else at this point?
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Old 06-16-2015, 11:29 AM   #671
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Re: The 2015 Mafia Championship: Game 6

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Bhuber Swift
Is this a taylor swift reference or something else?

(serious question - you guys use terms I am not use to)

(true story - I didn't know what reads were until I played in my game - we never called it them)

(pretend I don't know any of your acronyms and I promise not to use any of my boards...such as an OMAC moment...that's when you claim something that your forget has been shown as scum or saying something "Let's take out all the villains!" when you realize the heroes are the mafia and the villains are the town)
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Old 06-16-2015, 11:32 AM   #672
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Re: The 2015 Mafia Championship: Game 6

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Yeah, OMGUS is voting back the person that voted you for not much of a reason. Asking him for information was great. I want to see his answer. I still wish you both were around at the same time, because it's harder to see the clear interaction with the big delays.

Voting him at this point is just an attention-getter, though. It's not even pressure when he doesn't have any other votes. Do you actually have any reason to suspect him or want him lynched? More so than anyone else at this point?
With 9 hours left, my vote isn't final. As I found out at the last game, most of the votes take place in the last hour in a mad cap rush. Is this not the case?

I have reason to give him more of a reason to talk plus I wanted to bring attention to this - with some of us here, some questions get lost and since my time is limited, I was actually worried if I didn't vote, it would get ignored and I wouldn't have time to bring it up again.

See, it worked....we are talking about it and I found out that you also would like to hear more from him.
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Old 06-16-2015, 11:33 AM   #673
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Re: The 2015 Mafia Championship: Game 6

GAH! Effing meetings again....

Be back in a bit - I WILL be gone for like a block of 3 hours soon.
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Old 06-16-2015, 11:41 AM   #674
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Re: The 2015 Mafia Championship: Game 6

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Is this a taylor swift reference or something else?
It's when a second player not involved backs up someone else's OMGUS to see what happens. Just add "swift" to the end of the name of the person you're voting.
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Old 06-16-2015, 11:49 AM   #675
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Re: The 2015 Mafia Championship: Game 6

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It's when a second player not involved backs up someone else's OMGUS to see what happens. Just add "swift" to the end of the name of the person you're voting.
Thanks for the explanation!
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