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Old 06-15-2015, 07:17 PM   #401
RatchetOPB
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Re: The 2015 Mafia Championship: Game 6

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Originally Posted by cue5c View Post
And what does town trying to replicate town play usually imply? Pointing it out and making it obvious when mafia don't have day chat makes this really suspicious to me.
Town typically do not have to try and replicate town. It comes naturally, as it really should do. In this specific case though, with the ammount of activity and difference in styles and approaches and ideas on Mafia, as well as considering what we are ultimately playing for, it makes sense that some will make a conscious effort to play towards their town meta as best they can. I don't follow your second point, care to elaborate on that?
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Old 06-15-2015, 07:18 PM   #402
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Re: The 2015 Mafia Championship: Game 6

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Originally Posted by TehBankertin View Post
I notice most everything. Are you a flower who too wants acknowledgement?
Not at the moment. I just want the dead to be remembered. Maybe they'll bring me luck.
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Old 06-15-2015, 07:18 PM   #403
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Re: The 2015 Mafia Championship: Game 6

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Originally Posted by RatchetOPB View Post
Town typically do not have to try and replicate town. It comes naturally, as it really should do. In this specific case though, with the ammount of activity and difference in styles and approaches and ideas on Mafia, as well as considering what we are ultimately playing for, it makes sense that some will make a conscious effort to play towards their town meta as best they can. I don't follow your second point, care to elaborate on that?
I see you don't get what he means interesting.

I'm more fun to talk to than cue. So talk to me if you could.
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Old 06-15-2015, 07:19 PM   #404
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Re: The 2015 Mafia Championship: Game 6

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Not at the moment. I just want the dead to be remembered. Maybe they'll bring me luck.
You will need lots of it to misslynch me
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Old 06-15-2015, 07:21 PM   #405
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Re: The 2015 Mafia Championship: Game 6

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Originally Posted by RatchetOPB View Post
Town typically do not have to try and replicate town. It comes naturally, as it really should do. In this specific case though, with the ammount of activity and difference in styles and approaches and ideas on Mafia, as well as considering what we are ultimately playing for, it makes sense that some will make a conscious effort to play towards their town meta as best they can. I don't follow your second point, care to elaborate on that?
It means there's 1 power role and it seems like you're searching for it, notifying your teammates in case they can sway the lynch toward that person and come off distanced from you while doing so.
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Old 06-15-2015, 07:24 PM   #406
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Re: The 2015 Mafia Championship: Game 6

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Originally Posted by TehBankertin View Post
You will need lots of it to misslynch me
I just think your reads are too easy. Not necessarily a bad thing on Day 1, just something I'm noting as you seem to be buddying people I think are likely town. I'm not usually so open about these things, but I think you have influence and if you are scum, will be incredibly hard to lynch. So I'm planting my seeds early. Just in case.
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Old 06-15-2015, 07:25 PM   #407
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Re: The 2015 Mafia Championship: Game 6

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Originally Posted by RatchetOPB View Post
I think that would go without saying though. Everyone, particularly those not used to these levels of activity and not familiar with anyone else, is going to have to change their standard play.

I think he's attempting to replicate his town meta, but that, in this context, doesn't make him scum. I suppose if I had to pick where I lean there, I'd say he was town trying hard to appear as town, and I acknowledge that replicating meta is something you would find scum doing as opposed to town.
why would this being a different forum with different people affect his like, logic or reasoning or w/e?

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I don't agree. I'd say scum have to work hard to justify any sort of town reads, as giving easy ones away is scummy, and giving none is also scummy. It's not natural to them. Which is why I believe that scum go to these lengths to justify their reads, hence my vote.
i don't see how they need to work any harder than town does to justify their town reads

the only difference is that they know from the start who the town are while the town doesn't

i think people tend to overexplain themselves when they're fabricating a read, and they don't exactly need to fabricate a town read on a town player

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Is it really though? That's essentially what he was doing, no?
i said what i thought he was doing in the next sentence, which i think you forgot to respond to

but to say it again, he popped in after an hour to make a townread on achro who most people probably already agreed was town at the time

like it wasn't anything new or exciting

out of all the types of reads that a mafia might want to go to some length to fabricate, a consensus town read on a town player is probably pretty low on the list
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Old 06-15-2015, 07:27 PM   #408
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Re: The 2015 Mafia Championship: Game 6

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Originally Posted by DocEspana View Post
Morning everyone. I work a lot of nights this week (did have the weekend off though) so predict a lot of early morning and middle of the night talking from me and then dead silence mid day as I sleep.

Just getting up now actually and red through the thread. Already love all of you.... which is to say that any of you who cannot prove to have good logical reasoning and a willingness to kill to learn more will end up on my sh*t list.

Going to go get prepped for the day and then chat witg you guys a bit.

But honest question, in what world is saying "glad I'm a villager" day 1 not the most amateur wolf tell ever? In my world that's an auto lynch just for either being that stupid of a newbie or for making a "meta" joke as a veteran that no one really appreciates.

I am giving half of the benefit of the doubt that that sort of light hearted shenanigans is more acceptable where he comes from. But I fully believe "WW (mafia) is serious business"
Oh you're one of those guys who thinks your way of playing is the only way and lynches people on principle.

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Originally Posted by TehBankertin View Post
fun you're the third of fourth person to say that.

I think one thing about this game is that all the wild card people in this game (I think) Were town in previous games + the new folks so statistically we should have a healthy amount of good town players here which is really exciting. I wonder if stuff like that means that slendy is dead wolf walking or false tells.
yeah right

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Literally anything but a tell. ANYTHING but that. The working assumption is everyone will claim villager. Actually openly claiming it is viewed as a severe decorum breach and faux pas. You role reveal if your back is to a corner or, in more complex games, you're in an open chatting relationship witg someone else and you use role reveal as a bargaining chip to gain more trust. Openly saying anything of strategic value day 1 *feels* like a lie. Whether it is or not is less relevant. And if your allegiance feels like a lie, that's bad.
completely ignoring dorian's post on the matter. Like I may have scumread Dorian but he was right yo and it'll do you good to listen to other people instead of coming in with this.

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Originally Posted by cue5c View Post
Sure. Slender is the cop and bomb, my teammate, is buddying them so when they flip cop overnight or after the lynch today, they look supportive.

It's nice to have a friend, banks. Even if I have to eventually kill you.
You are probably the most bearable gimmick I've seen in a long while.

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Originally Posted by Achromatic View Post
Once I have walked my dog I will be able to be here for several hours.

A few notes before I do anything more than just search my name:

I find it kind of weird that saying good morning could be seen as wolfy, and the person who said this then follows up as if it is some great big alignment thing why at 8:30 in the morning (or so) I might not have time to be readily available. I don't know if this is a good or bad weird yet, but it's for sure weird. Bankertin was the man, for reference.

I won my putt putt game and established dominance over my 5 year old nephew and 6 year old niece. They were totally demoralized.

Quick question to come back to: who among the wild cards read the other games?

Be back soon.
I don't believe anyone said it was wolfy. We just wanted you to join the party, but sure if you considered our lamentations about you not in the game wolfy that's on you, I guess?

I read all of the games but by this point I've forgotten Games 1 and 2.

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So in your world, that's an auto lynch? That means you're changing your playstyle to appeal to people playing here. Interesting. Interesting. Can't wait to see how changing everything that makes you "you" works out for...you.
mhm. Basically my view.

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Originally Posted by MSU View Post
Hi everybody! Sorry, I thought I posted this before my morning meeting. Damn work getting in the way of good mafia-ing.

Here are all my feelings right now....

Banks talks a lot. Talking alot for the sake of talking can be good in getting stuff out or it can be scum trying to much up the boards with nonsense. Nothing definitive yet as a read but it stood out to me.

Slendy's "Once I've seen more posts from you" post bothers me and intrigues me. It's a very "shoot first, ask questions later" mentality. I dunno - could be good strategy but it is not something I would do. Maybe it's because I am more cautious of my vote within the first 2 hours that the game is open and I want to get a sense of how people are posting? But the answer to "Why are you voting for me?" is awesome if it works.

still digesting others but those are the two that immediately stood out for comment.
I give you a solid 6/10 for having people's names in your post but not actually saying why they're scum or not and just talking about how they play

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Originally Posted by dorian78 View Post
You're saying that me questioning why Slendy voted for me is why you're scumreading me? I mean, he obviously voted me for a reason, and I can do nothing to address that reason if he doesn't tell me what it is. People apparently disagree on whether or not it's a good idea for him to keep the reason to himself.

As for being right and doing nothing else...well, sorry you dislike it, but it's definitely my playstyle in the early game. I'm very much not used to giving out thoughts on other players so early, but if you want my thoughts, here they are.

Banks - posting like his usual self according to most people. It's a fairly aggressive-but-polite town approach, he was town the last game he did this, I have no reason to think otherwise yet.

slendy - all game 5 (once he was active), pushed hard on people I considered easy targets. All game, I thought it was super-scummy because it's a tactic I see mafia use a lot, despite everyone eventually thinking he was the towniest town left. I dislike the tactic, but given he likes using it as town, that's a point in his favor that he's playing the same way again.

Smartbomb -



Riki beat me to it. He joined game 5 after there was plenty to discuss, and that's a very different situation. I can see how some people are noticing the difference, but I think that difference is because of the different situations. I was starting to lean innocent on him, but him dropping a second vote on me is making me reconsider my initial impression, though.

fontisian - It would be easy for me to townread her for being (I think) the only one so far to townread me. I'll have to see how the votes play out today before I try to make a slightly more informed and less gut-based decision here.

cue - not a huge fan of the posting style so far, but so many people on here equate a dislike of posting/play style with scummy, and that's BS. Especially when playing with people who you aren't familiar with.
ok you're cool yay day 1 cases being stupid unvote you are going to be one of the better players itg I see. This sort of post is what I'd see as more consistent with being townie with a mindset such as yours.

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Originally Posted by DocEspana View Post
Why would anyone claim wolf? Just as a sarcastic joke? In order for that to be a sarcastic joke that works you need to already have a community that accepts people openly saying "Yay I'm a villager" as their first post. My community doesn't have the time for that foolishness. Here is why.

Post 1: Yay I'm a villager
2: Yay I'm a vilager
3: woopie I'm a villager
4: I'm a villager too, what are the odds?
5: five villagers in a row here!
6: vullager, checking in
7: annoying.gif villagers like me are care free and post gigs
8: better break out a cop outfit, a tribal head dress and some leather chaps cause I'm part of the village people
9: sorry I'm late to the game, but I just read my villager PM
10: ¡soy un villagro!
11: know who is not a wolf? This villager
12: villager, checking in
13: wow. All 13 of us are villagers. Gonna be a simple game, huh.

Saying you're a villager is a pointless exercise in wasting everyone's time reading something completely devoid of strategic value. It simply increases your post count and tells nothing, not even personality. At least where I come from, where every one has realized that it equates to nothing but verbal fluff, we all agree it's pointless and don't do it. So it's turned the other way where I am and since no one does it, we can use anyone who does as an example of newbies over eager to sell villagerness.
this has been brought up but this is also verbal fluff that also missed the point of the reason why I claimed town first post. Three whole posts and you missed the reason why. I mean reading is hard I should know but you're going places definitely

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Originally Posted by Achromatic View Post
Says his community doesn't have time for foolishness, literally makes a fluff post that has no probative value in the pursuit of finding scum. I mean I don't mind fluffy posts, I make a lot of them personally because I am a bit of a silly duck, but being all like "blah blah pointless blah blah" and then making this post which doesn't really matter because the person he is talking to basically said it's null, and then this post also says it is null, so yeah. This is a waste of a post disguised as content time to vote this guy.

##vote: DocEspana
I struggle with voting Doc because everything I've seen so far has been null and in the end I see only reasons to vote on him based on personality. Would you not agree that people regardless of alignment contradict themselves especially when it's in regards to their own play vs others?

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Originally Posted by DocEspana View Post
Feels like the start of culture of vapid posts which tell me nothing.

I don't care if what he said is truth or lie (right now). If all he says is fluff without teeth (and honestly it's way too early to actually determine that) now THAT is a mafia/wolf move. Right now though, he is just doing things that drive me crazy from a strategic POV. But that could be cultural.
this is your one specific feel about individual players so far and you've used it to call me bad, not indicative of alignment. Are there other people in the game or

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Originally Posted by DocEspana View Post
Thoughts before I do call it a day and get my sleep in. (nice thing about long day rounds, I can actually sleep and work and not worry about missing most of the round).

I went through trying to see if anyone gave away too much in their profile. Not really. Personally it feels like only achromatic, myself, and dorian really said much of anything actually of worth for me trying to learn if theyre being different. But I want to sort of point out that as much as it kills me to say this, looks like achromatic is playing according to his usual if his self description is right. Sort of takes away the joy of going after the person questioning your play the most.

Well I'll see you all in a handful of hours, probably more active in the middle of the (EST) night.
this isn't a post with reads either what is your opinion on the state of the game and not how the game should be played I think you had one vote on Banks after this? Iirc?

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Originally Posted by fontisian View Post
Wait, you never realized that fulcrum = fontisian?
Chris pls

---
Quick skim notes above.
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Old 06-15-2015, 07:27 PM   #409
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Re: The 2015 Mafia Championship: Game 6

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Originally Posted by cue5c View Post
I just think your reads are too easy. Not necessarily a bad thing on Day 1, just something I'm noting as you seem to be buddying people I think are likely town. I'm not usually so open about these things, but I think you have influence and if you are scum, will be incredibly hard to lynch. So I'm planting my seeds early. Just in case.
so you're basically voting him out of fear?
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Old 06-15-2015, 07:29 PM   #410
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Re: The 2015 Mafia Championship: Game 6

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Originally Posted by TehBankertin View Post
Archomatic seems to be game solving and confident in himself. I feel like this is a mirror of his town game from game 2. I know he was confident and wanted to be here I was surprised by his entrance but I believe he was sincere in beating children at putt putt and has sense impressed me.
I cant say too much on this. I don't know how he played Game 2, and with me not following it live I doubt I'd really get a great idea (I find I get more out of games ongoing rather than reading games already done with). It's a valid enough read I suppose, for Day 1 at least, If I had to pick, I agree with the colour as well, but that's on my gut feeling for Arch.
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Originally Posted by TehBankertin View Post
I see riki as asking good questions to people and trying to delve into the meanings behind the posts. Also this is my n0 peek.
I disagree with this read (unless you are telling the truth about the peek, obviously). Not that Riki isn't asking questions and whatnot, but I don't think anything in there is worthy of a townread from me personally.
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Originally Posted by TehBankertin View Post
Cue5s carefree attitude is a very confident scum player or more likely a cocky town as I think is more often than not common in these champs game they bring the strong town and the occasional scary scum.
I disagree entirely here. It relies too much on an assumption for my liking, and confident scum play isn't exactly a commodity given the strength of the playing field I'd wager. I also have Cue at lean scum down to his posts and the general cocky attitude in them, although only a light lean.
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Originally Posted by TehBankertin View Post
Bhuber and me have lined up on a lot of reads thus far I'm slightly worried he is buddying me but I hadn't mentioned my MSU suspicion before he made the most I base this solely off the t-swift thing.
Another one I disagree with the reasoning on. I don't have enough to have a decent read on Bhuber so far, and while I'd pick town if I needed to, I don't think it's enough to worth mentioning personally.
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Originally Posted by TehBankertin View Post
Fonti I think is wrong on a couple of things but I feel like she is actively hunting for scum, she wants to get a lynch on someone she is ready to fight and battle for it. I think if she is scum it will be apparent who she is fighting for. From my video mafia experience she is play a LOT like her town game but it is different from her town game on forum so I'm most hesitant about this read.
I'm not sure how you can be more hesitant on a read based on actual play in the game compared to a read based on a largely baseless assumption and a read based on a joke, if your reasoning is to be taken literally.
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Originally Posted by TehBankertin View Post
MSU is giving softball reads and essentially just checking in posts. It seems like he wants to be noted but not noticed. This is a huge scum tell imo. Someone who wants to just slip through the cracks and make it through the day. His concern doesn't seem to be finding a lynch.
I agree with this one, it's well-reasoned. I'm giving the benefit of the doubt seeing as we still have a good day left, but if his level doesn't improve my vote will be making its way over to him.
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I put road on the scum list because I liked cue's point on him. I also had noticed he was ready to buddy with me at a point I felt he probably hadn't progressed to yet. I was most hesitant about this scum read than any of my other reads.
Fair point, I guess, not much to say on this one. I find it to be reasonably argued, at least.

So overall, while I don't agree with a lot of them, I think most are valid points. There are just a few reads in there I think are stretching and/or weakly-reasoned.
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Old 06-15-2015, 07:29 PM   #411
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Re: The 2015 Mafia Championship: Game 6

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so you're basically voting him out of fear?
I have a tendency to die early on. I don't think my vote will do anything, but hopefully it will be noted. I do a lot out of fear. It's one of my base motivators.
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Old 06-15-2015, 07:31 PM   #412
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Re: The 2015 Mafia Championship: Game 6

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It means there's 1 power role and it seems like you're searching for it, notifying your teammates in case they can sway the lynch toward that person and come off distanced from you while doing so.
You're not explaining this point at all. Where in my post am I rolefishing? In fact, I don't believe I've so much as even mentioned the cop so far, so this doesn't seem to have any base here.
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Old 06-15-2015, 07:33 PM   #413
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Re: The 2015 Mafia Championship: Game 6

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for example, his vote on you above came out of left field for me, like i had no idea that was a read that he had up until when he voted you
I agree with this. Cue's vote kind of took me by surprise too. I see I've been ninja'd with her reason, but I still should go back and see if it came from anywhere or not.

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i think it's kind of funny that bhuber posted that fonti mq with the bolded words and asked people to see if they could see what he saw in those posts, and no one has responded yet
I didn't see anything that stuck out at first in what he bolded out of fonti's posts. Going back, the only thing I notice is that several of those sections seem to use conditional language, like "probably," "could have been," etc... I don't know if that's what he's noticing, and if it is, I'm not sure it says much. People use that kind of language often because talking in certainties is an invitation to be accused as mafia.
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Old 06-15-2015, 07:36 PM   #414
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Re: The 2015 Mafia Championship: Game 6

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TehBankertin is my ideal lynch today. Would give the most information so far.
Echoing everyone when I ask is this a joke vote or
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Old 06-15-2015, 07:37 PM   #415
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Re: The 2015 Mafia Championship: Game 6

Blargh reading is hard
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Old 06-15-2015, 07:38 PM   #416
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Re: The 2015 Mafia Championship: Game 6

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I see I've been ninja'd with her reason.
Sorry, cue! HIS reason. That's what you get for posting a picture of a woman in your bio.
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Old 06-15-2015, 07:39 PM   #417
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Re: The 2015 Mafia Championship: Game 6

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I don't believe anyone said it was wolfy. We just wanted you to join the party, but sure if you considered our lamentations about you not in the game wolfy that's on you, I guess?
#47

While I am surely delusional at the best of times, I am not quite imagining statements just yet.

I haven't remembered anything MSU has done so far which is probably a bad sign. I thought he was suspicious for a little bit when we played together though so I'll wait for the day to pan out more before I grow too concerned, have to remember what flagged a false positive last time and make sure I don't repeat that mistake.

Quote:
I struggle with voting Doc because everything I've seen so far has been null and in the end I see only reasons to vote on him based on personality. Would you not agree that people regardless of alignment contradict themselves especially when it's in regards to their own play vs others?
This... is actually not my experience, no. Generally when people say they play a certain way I hold them to that.
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Old 06-15-2015, 07:39 PM   #418
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Re: The 2015 Mafia Championship: Game 6

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Originally Posted by cue5c View Post
I just think your reads are too easy. Not necessarily a bad thing on Day 1, just something I'm noting as you seem to be buddying people I think are likely town. I'm not usually so open about these things, but I think you have influence and if you are scum, will be incredibly hard to lynch. So I'm planting my seeds early. Just in case.
Oh this is less fun than I thought. Continue onward though.
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Old 06-15-2015, 07:40 PM   #419
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Re: The 2015 Mafia Championship: Game 6

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Originally Posted by Riki View Post
why would this being a different forum with different people affect his like, logic or reasoning or w/e?
Because his logic and reason would be affected by meta? Things he finds scummy might be considered differently, affecting his logic further? It's completely different, and certain to affect his play, or anyone's not used to this format.
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i don't see how they need to work any harder than town does to justify their town reads
How so? They need to lie, manipulate and falsify information. More to the point, they have to make it appear like they think something but do not already know it as fact. So of course they have to work harder, at the very least they have to be on their toes more when making reads, which in turn means they have to work harder.
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the only difference is that they know from the start who the town are while the town doesn't
You make it sound like that isn't a huge difference. It is. They are coming from an entirely different perspective - town are looking for scum, and will notice people offering posts that look town, whereas scum need to try and blend into the Town, and so it might be less obvious to them because they are reading it differently. That's just one of many affects from the difference.
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i think people tend to overexplain themselves when they're fabricating a read, and they don't exactly need to fabricate a town read on a town player
They do to an extent. They need to fabricate the read to make it look like a read and not a confirmation of them being town. They need to make it look like they think someone is town, not that they know.
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i said what i thought he was doing in the next sentence, which i think you forgot to respond to
Mind quoting it back if you can, if you feel you want me to respond to it? I may have missed it (unlikely).
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but to say it again, he popped in after an hour to make a townread on achro who most people probably already agreed was town at the time
Could that not imply him looking to blend in to what most people agreed on, while looking like he wasn't just going along with the flow (so he offered a weaker reason)?
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like it wasn't anything new or exciting
Perhaps, but that doesn't have to make a difference.
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out of all the types of reads that a mafia might want to go to some length to fabricate, a consensus town read on a town player is probably pretty low on the list
I don't agree. Those reads allow scum to go along with the flow, but obviously doing so is scummy, so they have to look like they are looking at it through the eyes of town. The last thing they want is attention thrown onto them for bandwagonning and parroting, no?
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Old 06-15-2015, 07:42 PM   #420
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Re: The 2015 Mafia Championship: Game 6

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Originally Posted by SmartBomb View Post
I give you a solid 6/10 for having people's names in your post but not actually saying why they're scum or not and just talking about how they play

ok you're cool yay day 1 cases being stupid unvote you are going to be one of the better players itg I see. This sort of post is what I'd see as more consistent with being townie with a mindset such as yours.
i think it's interesting that you call out msu for having very surface level reasoning and then call dorian one of the better players itg even though i felt his reads were pretty surface level as well

not that i was expecting like amazing reads or anything given how early it was in the game or what dorian has said his site meta for day 1 is like, but yea

like you're not the only one either, so maybe i'm just weird idk
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Old 06-15-2015, 07:43 PM   #421
Achromatic
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Re: The 2015 Mafia Championship: Game 6

Something in Banker's favor, not a huge weight but something I am keeping in mind, is scum don't usually so recklessly post as he has. He would need to be very confident in his scum game to post with such impunity because obviously the more he posts the more chances he has to make errors.
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Old 06-15-2015, 07:43 PM   #422
RatchetOPB
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Re: The 2015 Mafia Championship: Game 6

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Originally Posted by dorian78 View Post
I didn't see anything that stuck out at first in what he bolded out of fonti's posts. Going back, the only thing I notice is that several of those sections seem to use conditional language, like "probably," "could have been," etc... I don't know if that's what he's noticing, and if it is, I'm not sure it says much. People use that kind of language often because talking in certainties is an invitation to be accused as mafia.
From where I'm from, using vague language is a scum tell as well, so there is that to consider to boot.
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Old 06-15-2015, 07:47 PM   #423
Riki
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Re: The 2015 Mafia Championship: Game 6

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Originally Posted by dorian78 View Post
I didn't see anything that stuck out at first in what he bolded out of fonti's posts. Going back, the only thing I notice is that several of those sections seem to use conditional language, like "probably," "could have been," etc... I don't know if that's what he's noticing, and if it is, I'm not sure it says much. People use that kind of language often because talking in certainties is an invitation to be accused as mafia.
i use multiple of these in like every sentence i post so gg
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Old 06-15-2015, 07:50 PM   #424
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Re: The 2015 Mafia Championship: Game 6

@Riki: MSU's post I called him out on had no reads, dorian's post had. I haven't taken into account his actual reads post.

@Achromatic: oh that I read that as nonserious
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Old 06-15-2015, 07:52 PM   #425
TehBankertin
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Re: The 2015 Mafia Championship: Game 6

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Originally Posted by RatchetOPB View Post
You're not explaining this point at all. Where in my post am I rolefishing? In fact, I don't believe I've so much as even mentioned the cop so far, so this doesn't seem to have any base here.
Hes saying what you said could be a signal like "hey look this dude is emulating his town game" but scum knows hes town so the only person trying to emulate vt play that isn't vt would be the cop. Thus pointing this out is anti-town.

(the computer at work auto corrected my misstype of emulating to immolating lol)
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