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Old 06-23-2015, 01:52 PM   #2626
fontisian
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Re: The 2015 Mafia Championship: Game 6

Banks, what's your preferred kill order for the next three Days in your ideal world?
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Old 06-23-2015, 02:00 PM   #2627
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Exclamation Vote Count

Votes from post 2445 to post 2626
Night in 5:59:58

---
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3 TehBankertin Slendy (14), fontisian (21), dorian78 (14)
2 dorian78 Achromatic (26), TehBankertin (57)
1 bhuber2010 Riki (34)
1 not voting bhuber2010 (4)
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Old 06-23-2015, 02:14 PM   #2628
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Re: The 2015 Mafia Championship: Game 6

I'm currently going through all of Dorian's posts and taking notes, but while doing that I came across a Ratchet-Bankertin interaction that pretty amusingly fits the bill I'm describing (Banks is the initiative side, Ratchet LEGITIMATELY interacts with Riki while only questioning Banks about weak things)
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Originally Posted by RatchetOPB View Post
Thanks, that's exactly what I was looking for.

To me, the bio was just a brief introduction describing the approach to Mafia.

I think that would go without saying though. Everyone, particularly those not used to these levels of activity and not familiar with anyone else, is going to have to change their standard play.

I think he's attempting to replicate his town meta, but that, in this context, doesn't make him scum. I suppose if I had to pick where I lean there, I'd say he was town trying hard to appear as town, and I acknowledge that replicating meta is something you would find scum doing as opposed to town.

His argument regarding the bio itself.

I don't agree. I'd say scum have to work hard to justify any sort of town reads, as giving easy ones away is scummy, and giving none is also scummy. It's not natural to them. Which is why I believe that scum go to these lengths to justify their reads, hence my vote.

Is it really though? That's essentially what he was doing, no?
i just read it as a throwaway read that wasn't even against what was probably thread consensus at the time
First paragraph is the response to Banks' reads-list. No further questioning (Banks has to prod him later for it...), just accepting as is.

The other paragraphs are Ratchet responding to Riki, going through every minute detail Riki brought up in his recent posts.

Quote:
Originally Posted by TehBankertin View Post

Can you talk to me about non-bio related stuff. Looking at my reads where do you vary or not with me?
1st prod.

Quote:
Originally Posted by TehBankertin View Post
I see you don't get what he means interesting.

I'm more fun to talk to than cue. So talk to me if you could.
2nd prod to Ratchet...

Quote:
Originally Posted by RatchetOPB View Post
I cant say too much on this. I don't know how he played Game 2, and with me not following it live I doubt I'd really get a great idea (I find I get more out of games ongoing rather than reading games already done with). It's a valid enough read I suppose, for Day 1 at least, If I had to pick, I agree with the colour as well, but that's on my gut feeling for Arch.

I disagree with this read (unless you are telling the truth about the peek, obviously). Not that Riki isn't asking questions and whatnot, but I don't think anything in there is worthy of a townread from me personally.

I disagree entirely here. It relies too much on an assumption for my liking, and confident scum play isn't exactly a commodity given the strength of the playing field I'd wager. I also have Cue at lean scum down to his posts and the general cocky attitude in them, although only a light lean.

Another one I disagree with the reasoning on. I don't have enough to have a decent read on Bhuber so far, and while I'd pick town if I needed to, I don't think it's enough to worth mentioning personally.

I'm not sure how you can be more hesitant on a read based on actual play in the game compared to a read based on a largely baseless assumption and a read based on a joke, if your reasoning is to be taken literally.

I agree with this one, it's well-reasoned. I'm giving the benefit of the doubt seeing as we still have a good day left, but if his level doesn't improve my vote will be making its way over to him.

Fair point, I guess, not much to say on this one. I find it to be reasonably argued, at least.

So overall, while I don't agree with a lot of them, I think most are valid points. There are just a few reads in there I think are stretching and/or weakly-reasoned.
Wishy-washy, and the last paragraph (the 'outcome' of the post) was decided by Ratchet before he even started to type words about the reads themselves. ("I give this a pass and that's the only thing in this post that interests me, oh wait I ended up disagreeing wrt some parts gotta mention that as well.")

Not sure I can make the point I'm trying to get across any more obvious than this exchange right here.

The last quote is allegedly the post that rung the Cop-bells for Banks, and, well, you can see for yourselves how plausible that is.

Did anyone ever check Banks' reaction to Ratchet's Achro-vote D2? I know *I* got paranoid since it was so weird that it could've even plausibly been a red check.
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Old 06-23-2015, 02:18 PM   #2629
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Re: The 2015 Mafia Championship: Game 6

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Originally Posted by fontisian View Post
Banks, what's your preferred kill order for the next three Days in your ideal world?
Dorian me bhuber.

I won't be I'm final three, town would always lose. If I'm wrong on Dorian I'll do all the work to find out who is what and be kynched then.

I'm on my iPad I'll address your other points when I can type.
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Old 06-23-2015, 02:38 PM   #2630
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Re: The 2015 Mafia Championship: Game 6

Also if Banker is scum he has literally already conceded the game with literally saying he doesn't mind being lynched. Like, he can't back away from that as scum tomorrow without 100% looking bad.

Damnit guys <_<
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Old 06-23-2015, 02:39 PM   #2631
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Re: The 2015 Mafia Championship: Game 6

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Originally Posted by fontisian View Post
Here's a thought. Assuming Riki is town, the last scum has to get him (or one of Slendy, Achro and me, I suppose) lynched in order to win the game. The only way Riki could have been lynched was if he was lynched before Road. Guess who tested the waters with a Riki push and refused to lynch Road yesterDay?
i am sold
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Old 06-23-2015, 02:40 PM   #2632
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Re: The 2015 Mafia Championship: Game 6

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Originally Posted by Slendy View Post
Did anyone ever check Banks' reaction to Ratchet's Achro-vote D2? I know *I* got paranoid since it was so weird that it could've even plausibly been a red check.
he didn't have a reaction to it afaict

he said he ignored most of the textwalls from you/ratchet/achro when he entered the thread
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Old 06-23-2015, 02:41 PM   #2633
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Re: The 2015 Mafia Championship: Game 6

afaict this game is now more about who is right than about who is mafia
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Old 06-23-2015, 02:54 PM   #2634
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Re: The 2015 Mafia Championship: Game 6

Well no you could still be scum and we will probably lose in GLORIOUS FASHION or something but yeah this is probably more about who is right.
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Old 06-23-2015, 02:59 PM   #2635
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Re: The 2015 Mafia Championship: Game 6

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Originally Posted by Achromatic View Post
Also if Banker is scum he has literally already conceded the game with literally saying he doesn't mind being lynched. Like, he can't back away from that as scum tomorrow without 100% looking bad.

Damnit guys <_<
As has dorian, as has bhuber.
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Old 06-23-2015, 03:00 PM   #2636
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Exclamation Vote Count

Votes from post 2445 to post 2635
Night in 4:59:57

---
VotesLynchVoters
3 TehBankertin Slendy (16), fontisian (21), dorian78 (14)
2 dorian78 Achromatic (28), TehBankertin (58)
1 bhuber2010 Riki (37)
1 not voting bhuber2010 (4)
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Old 06-23-2015, 03:01 PM   #2637
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Re: The 2015 Mafia Championship: Game 6

Slendy after this game is over and we are in post game. What will your reaction be when you learn that I really did think ratchet was the cop off that post? I have a feeling its the first thing you will post.
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Old 06-23-2015, 03:03 PM   #2638
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Re: The 2015 Mafia Championship: Game 6

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he didn't have a reaction to it afaict

he said he ignored most of the textwalls from you/ratchet/achro when he entered the thread
Thanks.

Is that a natural progression to his alleged D1-Ratchet-read? Why would Ratchet (and his possible target of suspicion) not be of SUPER-interest to him?

Even if his opinion had rescinded a bit, thinking someone might be the Cop tends to stay on the back of one's mind.
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Old 06-23-2015, 03:06 PM   #2639
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Re: The 2015 Mafia Championship: Game 6

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he didn't have a reaction to it afaict

he said he ignored most of the textwalls from you/ratchet/achro when he entered the thread
Correct. I think that might have been the day I was insanely busy at work. I can't remember 100%
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Old 06-23-2015, 03:07 PM   #2640
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Re: The 2015 Mafia Championship: Game 6

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Originally Posted by Slendy View Post
Thanks.

Is that a natural progression to his alleged D1-Ratchet-read? Why would Ratchet (and his possible target of suspicion) not be of SUPER-interest to him?

Even if his opinion had rescinded a bit, thinking someone might be the Cop tends to stay on the back of one's mind.
I think cop would have claimed or hinted more in the last seconds of EoD so I knew I needed to reexamine ratchet after the EoD1.
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Old 06-23-2015, 03:10 PM   #2641
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Re: The 2015 Mafia Championship: Game 6

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Actually, I'll say that people I attacked handled a case well as town. The "I need to consciously pay more attention here," is scummy, but the other part definitely isn't.


Not what happened. He attacked doc for his proportion of scum/town reads. That's still a scummy thing though, Banks. Why not attack him for what he actually did?
I think we're saying things on the same point. I would never say the he handled the case well that phrasing is what makes it scummy imo. Scum know they need to react to cases so I think that would be on his mind. Especially day 1.

Did you like any of my points or just didn't those points?
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Old 06-23-2015, 03:12 PM   #2642
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Re: The 2015 Mafia Championship: Game 6

JUST TO RECAP DORIANS DEFENDERS are saying "It was day 1 no biggie" Fun times.

Fonti/Slendy did you guys enjoy any of my case? Think any of it was good? Anything about it feel right or wrong to you?

Riki step up and tell me what you think of the case.

DORIAN IS NOT DEFENDING HIMSELF LIKE A TOWNIE HES MAKING EXCUSES HES NOT EXPLAINING HIS LOGIC HE IS A WOLF.
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Old 06-23-2015, 03:12 PM   #2643
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Re: The 2015 Mafia Championship: Game 6

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Slendy after this game is over and we are in post game. What will your reaction be when you learn that I really did think ratchet was the cop off that post? I have a feeling its the first thing you will post.
Not dramatic, actually. No offense but if you're Town, the read's still arbitrary.

I can understand light Cop-reads, I do them as well. But unless I see MAJOR reasons for Copreading someone I don't let that get in the way of my Lynch-decisionmaking. For obvious reasons.

I could also understand you simply saying you wanted to resolve one of the top three suspicious people in your mind. And couldn't adjust to the threadflow-change so quickly -- while not a great look on you, some people do that and I can't help it.

But you said this was the defining thing wrt Ratchet for you. When I specifically asked this. You didn't realize the explanation wouldn't fly in my eyes, and later started polishing the stance. It makes you VERY red in my books. I could've locked in both my D3- and D4 -votes with a clear conscience, once I realized that. (Disclaimer: I'm still reassessing the Thread, fwiw.)

So if you're Town here, you've basically been one-time-too-many in the wrong, in a manner that seems to be one-shade-too-red. Sorry. I can see you're a great player and I won't think less of you if you flip Town here, but I also can't ignore your decisions making the most sense from a Mafia!PoV.
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Old 06-23-2015, 03:14 PM   #2644
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Re: The 2015 Mafia Championship: Game 6

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Originally Posted by TehBankertin View Post
JUST TO RECAP DORIANS DEFENDERS are saying "It was day 1 no biggie" Fun times.

Fonti/Slendy did you guys enjoy any of my case? Think any of it was good? Anything about it feel right or wrong to you?

Riki step up and tell me what you think of the case.

DORIAN IS NOT DEFENDING HIMSELF LIKE A TOWNIE HES MAKING EXCUSES HES NOT EXPLAINING HIS LOGIC HE IS A WOLF.
I'm going through the Thread and there are posts that make road-Ratchet-dorian seem plausible, if that's any consolidation to you.

Once I've taken the notes I'll compare them with yours again to see how legit/forced I find them.
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Old 06-23-2015, 03:20 PM   #2645
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Re: The 2015 Mafia Championship: Game 6

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Not dramatic, actually. No offense but if you're Town, the read's still arbitrary.

I can understand light Cop-reads, I do them as well. But unless I see MAJOR reasons for Copreading someone I don't let that get in the way of my Lynch-decisionmaking. For obvious reasons.

I could also understand you simply saying you wanted to resolve one of the top three suspicious people in your mind. And couldn't adjust to the threadflow-change so quickly -- while not a great look on you, some people do that and I can't help it.

But you said this was the defining thing wrt Ratchet for you. When I specifically asked this. You didn't realize the explanation wouldn't fly in my eyes, and later started polishing the stance. It makes you VERY red in my books. I could've locked in both my D3- and D4 -votes with a clear conscience, once I realized that. (Disclaimer: I'm still reassessing the Thread, fwiw.)

So if you're Town here, you've basically been one-time-too-many in the wrong, in a manner that seems to be one-shade-too-red. Sorry. I can see you're a great player and I won't think less of you if you flip Town here, but I also can't ignore your decisions making the most sense from a Mafia!PoV.
I'm literally never flipping mafia here. You know it and you're trying to call ME bad for flipping town **** that ****. IF YOU LYNCH ME FOR NOT SEEING THE OBVIOUSLY LOGIC THAT IS ON YOU SIR. DONT YOU DARE PUT MY FLIP ON ME. I'VE SPENT MORE TIME IN THIS THREAD THAN ANYONE AND VERY MUCH CARE ABOUT WINNING AND NOT DYING. I WILL NOT HAVE YOU SAYING **** LIKE THAT.

Your case on me assumes I'm a great mafia player and interact with teammates in a specific way.

THEN simulataneously I'm also a ****ty mafia player and come up with (in your mind) bull**** cop reads to justify not voting on a partner.

When I'm this amazing scum player. So which am I good or bad? Let me know. Because your case ONLY makes sense if IM BOTH AT THE SAME TIME

Where dorian is a wolf who plays soft and gets away with being scummy on day 1 because hey guess what thats how HES STILL PLAYING NOW. It 100% lines up with someone who is uncomfortable playing scum in a new environment and had teammates who are killed off and doesn't know how to handle late game wolf.

BUT WHY IGNORE WHAT MAKES THE MOST SENSE???? Go with that hero play on the guy who is good/bad.
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Old 06-23-2015, 03:24 PM   #2646
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Re: The 2015 Mafia Championship: Game 6

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I'm going through the Thread and there are posts that make road-Ratchet-dorian seem plausible, if that's any consolidation to you.

Once I've taken the notes I'll compare them with yours again to see how legit/forced I find them.
Just bold dorian's name so we can win today. Go take a nap or whatever you want. Stop working. I've done the work it is dorian I've been on him since day 1.

Like its not consolation for me because I know what will happen. I'll die and flip villa then we win tomorrow which is annoying as *** to me. I've been on the wrong scum all game. I'm getting lynched for that.
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Old 06-23-2015, 03:28 PM   #2647
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Re: The 2015 Mafia Championship: Game 6

If I was scum with road. I would give a big pep talk about how he should keep his case on me full force and switch to dorian EoD then we'd lynch bhuber then last day he or i can bus in mylo and then auto win the next day.

I'd have put in INSANE work and made lots of good poitns on dorian a case like the one I'm doing today I wouldn't have waited for people to fledge out their own ideas. I wouldn't be pushing crazy theories. I'd just take the easy win.

I mean i'm apparently good enough to have those day 1 interactions where I kept pinging my partner ratchet but not good enough to see this insanely easy path to victory.

Come on now.
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Old 06-23-2015, 03:30 PM   #2648
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Re: The 2015 Mafia Championship: Game 6

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afaict this game is now more about who is right than about who is mafia
Did you read my day 1 case yet or no?
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Old 06-23-2015, 03:34 PM   #2649
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Re: The 2015 Mafia Championship: Game 6

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Originally Posted by TehBankertin View Post
I think we're saying things on the same point. I would never say the he handled the case well that phrasing is what makes it scummy imo. Scum know they need to react to cases so I think that would be on his mind. Especially day 1.
Everyone needs to react to cases. I've been doing it non-stop since the game started, and I'm town. I spent Day 1 trying to get a feel for everyone's personality and playstyle. Some people handled cases on themselves well. Some people didn't. Some people, like MSU, didn't on purpose, and I called them out for it. Some people, like Ratchet, didn't when under a time constraint but did the next day.

If, as town, you notice that someone is good at handling cases against them, then you know you probably need to look elsewhere to solve them. It's useful information to a player of either alignment, and I don't see how commenting on it is remotely indicative of alignment.
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Old 06-23-2015, 03:34 PM   #2650
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Re: The 2015 Mafia Championship: Game 6

I'm about to have to leave for work. I'm going to go over day 2 of dorian's as well.

I will focus on staying in the thread.
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