It doesn't help you, but the fact that you're bringing it here does.

basically

i mean there's also the stuff i mentioned yesterday where he's kind of been floating through this game and i can't think of many new or original ideas he's mentioned during this game

and i briefly read his game 3 filter and thought he's been much softer here than in that game, despite being the seer for the first time in that game

also i like that dorian has been doing some work today and probably want to lynch him less than road/bhuber

It's not a typo, but I realize my intention wasn't clear anyway.

What I mean is, once you realize that the Cop has probably caught a buddy of yours, you don't want the Wagon to reach critical inertia by itself. You want to slow the Wagon down -- you DON'T want to make the Cop's job easier. Cause even though Ratchet is after that point, even in the best-case-scenario, 95% doomed (by D3 at latest), getting that one D2-mislynch in is the proper way of trying to salvage the situation.

This point is proven by the very simple fact that all the people Voting for Ratchet were Town: me, the cop clear, and the cop himself. No one else. Even assuming an afk-Scumteam, only bhuber was afk the whole time prior to MSU's claim, unless I recall something incorrectly. Clearly Mafia DIDN'T want to bus Ratchet, yet Ratchet's D2-play reeks of antispew-tactics.

Bolded -- those people weren't around when the EoD1-SFD manifested.

I only consider the people who were around at that time to be 'obligated' to comment on Ratchet. The rest not commenting I can understand, due to afk at the critical moment.

Middle paragraph -- regardless, yes, of course the 'easy way out' IS possible and it is possible we have an afk/MIA-scumteam here. BUT...

(underlined --) ...how often is the Scumteam in reality this resigned to their fate, starting D2? Much more often Suspect Pools such as bhuber/road/dorian end up containing mostly, if not entirely "Low Hanging Fruits" rather than actual resigned Scummiosi. Is this also not true?

Riki, why did you make that hint in the thread about MSU possibly being the cop with a red check on Ratchet?

The thing is though I went into the Ratchet isolation with a clear mind. I had no biases heading into it. Everyone who I hadn't already cleared (okay so I did have biased, just not favoring banker/riki) started out equal. It was through Ratchet's interactions with them that I did not like them. How were they low hanging fruit? People have agreed with me, but does that make them low hanging fruit? Also I did this exact same thing in game 2 and I cleared a lot of people after a day 2 scum lynch and had it down to 3 people whom I thought 2 were scum. I was entirely correct there. It doesn't mean I have to be correct now of course, but in my only experience in this format using interactions has worked for me so I am confident in going back to the well. In fact oddly enough I had this exact same argument over a member of town in that game that a lot of people wanted to lynch. It... feels really mirrored, but that is confirmation bias I guess but yeah.

Anyway another thing that I find absurd is that a player of Ratchet's care would have his two scumbuddies as his top two town reads. Now that's something I haven't ever seen. Scum town clear people like that to buddy them often, and having a strong town read a buddy can end up backfiring in this format. Remember, I am looking at this through a skewed lense so I am seeing all of these connections this way doesn't mean the scum team thought of this. Just because I think no scum would do it doesn't mean Ratchet got the benefit of going "hah, they will never expect me to do this, kukuku" you know what I mean? Like I feel as if I am doing some good thinking and trying to get into Ratchet's head. Maybe I am wrong, but it would break patterns of scum interaction which I have leaned on for years.

the bolded is the issue with this line of thought

i mean like, you can't really take what a mafia team that doesn't include me did, and use that as proof for what i would do

at the very least i would not have been slightly leaning town on him for the entire day yesterday

That sounds interesting, fonti...

Achro: Do you agree with my assessment of road/Riki and dorian/Riki?

To answer you... well, yes, it WOULD be unexpected and out-of-the-norm. But if YOU were Scum with two such Pro-Town presences as Riki and Banks, would you force yourself into null-reading either of them if there wasn't any good 'alibi' for doing so?

Also do I recall incorrectly or did Ratchet not try to dig up some weak-looking dirt on Riki during the first half of D1? Yet that's one of the things that never 'lead anywhere'. Except Townreading Riki by the end of it all.

i actually made that post because i was trying to walk through msu's thought process and make a point of how what msu was doing made no sense, and then after i submitted it i realized that what msu was doing makes sense if he's the cop

No it's not relevant who is Mafia, what's relevant is 1) none of me-Doc-MSU are Mafia, hence 2) none of the Mafia wanted to bus Ratchet.
Also like I pointed out above, but which you are trying to ignore, 3) not bussing Ratchet right off the bat is the most +EV play for Mafia.

Also you DIDN'T slightly lean Town on him the entire day yesterday. You had him among your redleans at one point...

we had some kind of argument that lasted for several posts before i decided it was getting circular and basically told him to agree to disagree

and when he townread me he specifically said that he disagreed with some of what i was saying but was still townreading me

i acknowledged this every single time when i said i'm bad at mafia and wouldn't do the most +ev thing as mafia lol

i thought the scumteam was msu/road/achro

i said that multiple times

he was in the lower half of the player list for me but that was it

He never had Riki as anything but leaning town on any of his reads list. He discussed a lot of stuff with him.

Also as scum I would absolutely throw legitimate shade on a player like Banker. 100% Why? He posts a lot and can take it. I would totally be paranoid of Banker and bring it up a lot and watch as his girth crushed all will against my silly useless paranoia.

That's just me though.

Also I agree with you, but mind you a bit of bias because I think Riki is the 4th scummiest person so!

4) your play yesterday before the claim fits possible deflection to a T, though obviously I can never prove for certain that you had red intentions instead of green ones when you played 'cautiously'. But it DOES stick out.

In name of fairness, road's Banks-agenda somewhat does stick out as well, but I'll get around to evaluating that later.

if i knew msu was the cop why would i continuously go at him, put more pressure on him, and make him feel more need to claim?

like if you're saying i don't want msu to claim so i could get someone else not ratchet mislynched that day, going after msu in like >50% of my posts and making him feel pressured like that seems pretty stupid

not to mention about how it also makes me look terrible on a level 1 way

otoh when i'm legitimately confused as **** by msu's play then what i did actually does make sense

like if you think i want to get road mislynched over ratchet

why do i spend like 3 posts talking about road and 50 posts talking about msu

Oh okay so you suck as a red player sorry for ever suspecting you! ...no. No way of proving this either way, and for some reason or another your tone in describing your own playstyle isn't exactly convincing to me.

I do remember the MSU/Achro-paranoia as I too partook in it, that just makes me all-the-more-curious why you never Voted MSU but jumped on road gladly.

What's the post fontisiac's talking about?

Well you never DID help me and Banks make the wagon into a proper one -- I'll have to reread that part of the Day, regardless.

i never meant to make a conversation out of it in the first place

because i wasn't sure what he was doing, and i wanted to like, actually come to a conclusion before voting him

http://forumserver.twoplustwo.com/sh...postcount=1442

By the way: Bhuber.

poof. Vanished.

<_<

Will have to reread, but for instance because you'd want to be sure MSU's the Cop before moving elsewhere. Especially if you left a signal-post at some point that fontisiac picked up on, like I'm gathering right now.

i think the amount of time i spent talking to him probably meant more than banks who just voted him and started talking about other people like bhuber and dorian

i'm not sure if you're saying that fonti might have caught me by picking up on that post but i mentioned that i made that post yesterday

Another thing: I don't think the last two scum in banker/Riki celebrate their scum mate's brutal burial by having a posting contest to end the day.