i pretty much agree completely with this list

Just so you know if Ratchet is scum he is trying to kill you if you're town.

The phrase "its not personal its mafia" goes back to the soft thing. Wolves can suck my dick. I'm not trying to make friends with wolves I'm trying to kill them day in and day out. You're not saying anything about his actual character this pause and apologetic tone makes you look scummy. Like you're trying to befriend him while stabbing him.

MSU

Well, I think I've discussed you, Riki and my scum reads enough at this point, so I'll talk about Fonti and Dorian.

I find myself agreeing with the line of reasoning Dorian uses. I might not actually agree with his conclusions, and his reads themselves for a large part, but I can see his thought process, and it makes sense to me. I have a hard time seeing that thought process from scum, which is why he's lean town.

As for Fonti, I particularly have a hard time seeing scum push so heavily onto town when there were easier wagons to nudge with less effort. That seems like an overextension otherwise, and I'm not getting that impression. That is what puts her into my town reads for the most part right now.
But I can't defend that. I assume, if you are town, you want me to defend your argument, yes? That way you get a better understanding of my alignment. What I'm asking for is something I can attack. Something I can work with, a bit of substance. I can't attack "feelings".

As for what you brought up here, it says just about nothing really. If you think about something, you are either going to feel more strongly about it or you talk yourself out of it.

I'm concerned here, MRU. It's like you are happy to just sit on my lynch all Day and not really discuss it any further. Considering the discussion pertaining to my lynch before today was minimal and frantic at best, I really don't see how you, if town, would want that. But there is no effort here from you to go anywhere with my lynch, like it is the end result that is more important for you than the lead-up to the lynch and the discussion - which is really the meat that town can enjoy from lynches.

I think it deserves a thorough reread with the momentum of the thread taken into account should one of them flip scum. I will say that today MSU not impressing.

I dont have fancy analysis with all of your specific terms and inside re ferences about peaks and tells. I'm not trying to play stupid, I just honestly feel like my dialect is evolved in an entirely different direction than yours (soeaki n g of which, I'd love to see how you all handle a SDN game). But this whole response just screams wolf to me. You want me to be specific? I'm gping to have a hard time. It's not an objective "why did you say this" moment and more or a subjective "stuff doesn't make sense" moment. The only objective thing I can say is that ratchet has no idea what the word fallacy means and keeps using it repeatedly as if frequent usage of the term will cement his point in the absence of actual fallacy to refer to.terms matter. Especially terms like fallacy that insult your opponents thoughts.

Let's say two things here. Both are weaker than my precious comments. But both carry merit in my mind. The first is that you are basically concocting a situation which didn't exist. Slendy wasn't shaking off votes last minute. Objectively he simply wasnt. It wasnt some overwheoming majority nor was it last minute, you imply both. Idk what it felt like to you, but it, in reality, was not what you described it as. Which is th3 crux of your whole argument here.

Does his reason for shaking votes way before deadline matter? You suggest yes. And normally I'd semi agree. But when someone can shed nearly every vote against 5hem in a short period of time AND it not be critically near closing time, I'd give this a pass.

The second issue is that out of the blue you decide the best way to characterize this is to call it selective application of logic. You're not going to get me chastising you for not sticking incredibly tight to the rules of strict logic. No. I work on feels. (Generally) well referenced feels, but feels. You are ripping someone for being somewhat inconsistent in the Super early game strategy. I view it as more or less a crap shoot. A few other people do. Idk if your target does, but nearly everyone here has been logically inconsistent on day 1. You decided to make this a cardinal issue and isolate only one person for it. To me it's an almost irrelevant issue to be somewhat inconsistent this early (where everyone is grabbing at straws) and it's crazy to be making this a single-player issue at this juncture.
Honestly "too many words". I read it a few times and all I got was that you wanted Achromatic lynched because you disagree with him. Not for A single good reason. But for a combination of "I disagree" reaaons. Ironically, these are your strongest arguments and I can't shoot then down, but they are entirely opinion and subjective experience posed as objective fact. It's hard to say you're wrong. It's only possible to say I mostly (not entirely ) disagree.

The sad part is I want to believe Achromatic is a wolf. I really do. Your arguments actually encourage me to believe it. But only your latter few paragraphs. And the general disingenuousness of the first few seriously undercut it and ruin my ability to jump on your side when you begin to make weakly convincing arguments at the end.

Want me to vote for Achromatic? So do I. But you're gonna have ti make much stronger arguments for either their suspicion or your innocence when you're my wolf suspicion de jour. It's almost true that the same arguments would hold more water from someone else. Almost.

Meh, I suppose that does make sense, MSU. Still kind of find myself agreeing with Riki in the manner that I find your 'conciseness' lacking. Like, you've just selected to follow the Ratchet-wagon, but don't really have any actual CONTENT to back it up, more like using pretty words to echo my sentiments?

Also you seem to be ignoring Ratchet's responses (and the games he linked, though I can understand not going through them for several reasons that aren't alignment-indicative), so your Vote on R does seem like it's convenient more so than backed up by conviction...?

Let's hear some more words/elaboration from you, in other words.

so from what i can tell you want ratchet lynched for information? like nothing in this post says anything about how ratchet is scummy, except maybe the part about how people might have been trying to keep votes off of ratchet

although if that were your biggest reason i think you'd put people who were defending ratchet in your top 3 instead of people who weren't around like dorian/road

It was because of this:

The only one he didn't do was Ratchet. And Ratchet was on his top 3 scum.

I know he has stuff to do but when you are making lists, order matters.

For instance, the reason I ask people to do a 3 X 3 and is that most people will put the "Towniest person" first on their list of three and then the least sure on of the three on the bottom.

Same with mafia.

Then, when I ask you to kill/save one, it is fascinating how often the top spot mafia and top spot town are the ones you kill and save, but ONLY when you are telling the truth and aren't really thinking about it. Sometimes I catch people messing up. Is it fool proof? No. But you wouldn't believe how often it does work.

If you are lying and you are mafia and don't really care, you mix it up and sometimes, mess it up.

Because as mafia, you don't have a top 3 town and mafia and you start over analyzing who you want to save vs. kill because how will that look to the town and do you put your scum buddies in the kill or save list, etc etc etc.

It's a small thing but something I like doing.

I didn't like how Dorian said Ratchet was in his top 3 mafia and was the only one he didn't do a read of.

Hence, he got on my list.

Again, not fool proof but enough to make me wonder and go "huh?"

I really think that we all should take a moment and really re-read the last 90 minutes of yesterday. Honestly. Not ISO, but the progression. I did this morning.

Fun! So ratchet is dying in your eyes. Confirmed scum? How many scum were on smartbomb? Sorry if I missed it.

Ratchet you almost died yesterday there is a vote on you. How are you not talking more about how the people on your wagon on confirmed wolves in your eyes?

Like if it were me I'd be dual wielding pitchforks and torches trying to stab and poke them all. If you're town SCUM TRIED TO KILL YOU YESTERDAY right? Like go into detail about how they're scum not how townies are town.

I don't think I have voted on Ratchet (memory of a gold fish)....more like I am putting pressure on him to talk more.

I am never concise, in RL or in mafia. Ask my friends on my boards. I type how I think...which is maddening to people who have to read it and try to understand.

If you want concise from me, it ain't going to happen. What you will find thought is a lot of nuggets that pop out. And you will love me for them.

People are saying my game is off - please go and re-read the EOD yesterday.

I honestly don't want to tell you what to look for though. Just let me know what you think. If you go back and see nothing, then that's fine. But take a real gander.

DOC!!!! You're here and posting walls of text thats awesome.

So we're trying to lynch some wolves who should we start with? Also bonus points for why!

Yesterday, I wanted to lynch Ratchet for that information as I explained above.

Today, after re-reading things, he leans heavy scum for me.

Sometimes, and this is my fault, I post in hyperbole. I forget on these threads, you all don't "know" me like they do on my boards (been playing for almost 8 years there). It's odd for me.

Honestly the only defense I can offer to thee or four people listing me as their near top mafia read is that my name is docespana. I'm from a physicIan website. Literally every single one of your arguments has centered around the fact that I have contributed at a moderate level (not that I said a single thing wrong) and that you fear the mafia "back off" technique. I've seen it. I know it. I don't blame you. But I've made zero excuses from day one. I've told you I'm a l most exclusively active at night and that's when I'm on shift in the emergency department. While my posts my only hint at it, I've spent a comical amount of time in the early AM reading posts I've missed whole asleep for the peak posting hours.

If everyone's argument is that I'm a busy doctor, it's totally non game related targeting and also not gonna net you a wolf. Since no one has any game related arguments against me (especially after I got more in the groove of stuff later in day 1s cycle ) I'd hope some of th3 suspicion would come off of me.

Is asking for suspicion off fo me suspicious? Probably. But what else can I do in this situation with 1-2 actual votes and 2-3 highly suspicious people all
over the same issue (my nocturnal schedule)? I'm gonna cll them to eith er take me to task and show why they voted for me, or to back off.

I think there was one more on Smartbomb and one not voting for either. If Ratchet is scum.

Process of elimination, I still trust you for the reasons stated. Cue is dead and town. That leaves Dorian and Riki. Hence, I started in on Dorian first.

@Banksy - if Ratchet is flips scum, what is your impressions of yesterday?

Now I take this personally. Fallacy - mistaken principle of logic or belief. Anchro was using the 7for7 fallacy, which I pointed out at the time. I never said that made him wrong, I said I'm not going to follow his reasoning because of it. I find this to be completely unnecessary and needlessly antagonistic on your behalf though.
It was within the last 40 minutes of the day. In a 36 hour day, that's pretty last minute. Your point on it not having an overwhelming majority doesn't really stand up either, seeing as no one ever had more than maybe 5 or 6 votes on them at any one time.
What is critically near closing time then, pray tell, if not well within the last hour?
I'd say the inconsistency is pretty major though. I certainly don't view Day 1 as a crap shoot, and that alone shouldn't be used to discredit my argument anyway, and to me, showing to be strongly in favour of one wagon, then following the subject of that wagon for another one barely discussed throughout the day is pretty suspect.
You are only saying there isn't a good reason to be found because apparently, you think it's fine to ignore major inconsistencies on Day 1. I don't. The fact of the matter is we clearly view the importance of Day 1 differently, and I think my opinion on Day 1 is important to consider here when judging my argument, for context if nothing else.
It's funny you say that, because the end was almost entirely my interpretation on the matter and not discussing the in-thread evidence.
I've never claimed my argument against Achro is enough to get him lynched right there and then. Ever. However, I feel like you have quite a biased review here, and you haven't even considered my perspective on the argument, and why I would possibly see it this way. You've just said "I don't think this is right so it's weak because it is based on a foundation I disagree with fundamentally".

Gut check for everyone - am I making sense in my thinking? Or am I still not solid enough or you don't understand me?

It all makes perfect sense in my head....

he also said he was doing ratchet last because that was the player he was having the hardest time reevaluating, which i think is pretty believable and i'd also probably agree with that statement

@bolded, what's stopping mafia from just re-ordering their list after they decide who they've wanted to kill or save? like if anything i think mafia would be most conscious of their order just in case there are people like you who look into that stuff lol

or generally mafia just make up their reads and then put them together (in order) afterwards, i doubt someone comes up with the order first and then works out how to justify the reads so the order makes sense after, that seems pretty backwards

do you have anything like, related to his content that you think is scummy? he's posted a decent amount of stuff today

Haven't I already done that? I argued at length with Slendy, who as on there. I'm beginning to get something going with MRU, and I already made that large argument against Achro at the start of the day. A lot of the points I've raised have either fettered out or still stand, and there isn't much I can add while that remains the case.

if all the wagons were town not necessarily

what are these reasons?

If it wasn't clear, what I was implying when I said my name was docespana (as if that means something) was that I'm a physician and I can't exactly just free uo time willy nilly. You get all if my free time when I have it, but you're actively competing against patients dying and my sleep and food needs for my attention.

...
You say as you defend yourself.

I actually thought the late switch was intentional at the time and was gearing up to lynch them both.

Actually, I was the one who first suggested a lynch on Slendy, with Cue then offering to join me. You only voted him after that discussion.

I've only been in one comparable situation, where a bodyguard (a doc who dies in the place the person he saves) died night 1. A scum made this long ass post explaining why he was the obvious protect. As it happens, he was, and the scumteam had decided to shoot the bodyguard for some reason. I do love the gif, though.

As a general note, I think I'm the only woman in this game, so whenever someone uses "her" or "she" to refer to someone else, it's very confusing. Stop that.

Also, Slendy, my name is fontisian.

Yeah, yeah, fair enough. I'm still a little weirded out by 1.You being so sure that cue was town, when I saw him as so scummy and 2.Your reversal on Smartbomb. Didn't you say that you disliked the early pressure on him in the middle of the Day? Also, you trying to tell me to trust your town reads when I was /telling/ you SmartBomb was town. That bothers me.

Slendy's arguments seem very town through all of this.

The people who townread are underestimate my arrogance, but I'll take it.

And just because I'm super paranoid: I do not trust Banks and Achro. Achro especially, because he always seems to be right behind a townie making a push or spewing weird logic to explain townreads. Banks is slightly better, because at least I agree with him on road. Do not let them slide through the game.

road
Hi. You've made two extremely self-conscious posts now. I kind of want to kill you for them. You understand.

Wait, never mind, Banks switched to MSU, which is ok from a vote logic perspective, but muh. Banks, baby, come back to me.

I'm just going to reiterate that Doc is my N0 peek.

It makes sense, but lack details. Give names of the likely scum in scum!Ratchet worlds.