i mean if he's lying it'd be kind of sketchy

Welcome back!

Lol as scum he could just lie and says hes bad then play well and you would clear him off this. Does that not give you pause?

MSU when you've caught up let me know.

i mean it's meta it's not really something you can easily lie about

like i don't doubt that he was probably exaggerating and i'm not using it to read him yet

it's why i wanted to ask him about it

but if i look at some of his past games and think that he's probably out of his scum range in this game then i will clear him for a couple of days barring anything else really weird happening and i don't see why that's a problem

Ok - first, I will admit to everyone that my reads WERE very surface. The game opened up at 8 am my time which is start of day at work and I didn't have the time to devote to giving my indepth, on the nose, full of insight posts after what ya'll wrote. If you are looking for that from MSU after 15 pages of back and forth, you aren't going to get it. It was early game and I made my notes and as I usually do, I post lightly and freely as if I was talking to you all.

@Smart - you and I have different version of "reads" - I give thoughts and my initial feels. And if you didn't like them, thats ok, but they were my initial feels.

I don't understand that about my usual style of play - the only style of play you have on me is from game 2. And that's one game where i nailed 2/3 scum and died on night 2 for it.

Here!

Good to be back!

To be fair to you all, you are lynching me for not giving you the time and indepth reads in the middle of my work day during a very bad day. Now onto my actual reads since yo uall have been very busy....(in another post since this one is long enough).

I know this wasn't directed at me, but I'll answer. Yes. So much so that no one ever tries on my site, and the last time I remember it happening, it was because someone who happened to be mafia posted lyrics from the musical Once Upon a Time, which I had just played, was sick of, and I voted him down.

More to the point, though, I think it's particularly difficult in a vanilla game. We almost always play games where everyone has a role, and getting info from it is usually far more useful than any kind of interaction with any other player that's just based on discussion. Thus town's main goal is to survive long enough to get use out of their role, not to even think about trying to solve the game on day 1.

Achromatic - I didn't read game 2. You and everyone else seem to think he's very solidly town. If it's similar to his town play in game 2, I'm fine with this read for now. Almost everything he's done so far seems town-ish to me too, though I'm not a huge fan of his kneejerk-reaction vote still sitting on Doc.

riki - I agree, she's been asking a lot of questions and looking for logic-fails. That's fairly town-sided, like you say, although catching someone in a logic-fail doesn't equal catching scum. Of course, if you're going to pretend you have an innocent scan on her, you have to townread her.

Cue - I disagree. Throughout the day, I've seen things from him that have given me reads in both directions, and I'm not sure which ones are the ones to be paying attention to. I guess that, at the moment, equals out to a null in my book, but it's a null from pinging me in both directions, which is very different from a null from not pinging me at all.

bhuber - gave me a good first initial impression (which was totally just a gut read), but I'd need to see more. I'm especially waiting to see the interaction between him and MSU when MSU finally finds time (welcome back, MSU!). I think you're perhaps weighting him a little more heavily town than I would because of the similar reads - it's easy to do that, and sometimes it's right, and sometimes it's a trap.

fontisian - I'm not sure what you mean by "I think if she is scum it will be apparent who she is fighting for." I mean, so far today, it's been pretty apparent that she's been fighting for Cue to be lynched. You're pretty hesitant about her as town, and I certainly wouldn't go any higher than that now. At this point, I think I'd need to resolve Cue in my head before I could make a further decision here.

road - remind me what cue's point about road was that you liked enough to make this read. Everything that he's said so far, I've mostly just nodded along. I disagreed with a few minor points here and there, but nothing that seemed scummy. He handled your scumread on him very well, which speaks more to his skill than his affiliation, but definitely means that I need to consciously pay more attention here.

MSU - I don't know. I think he sounds genuinely frustrated by how unexpectedly busy the day became, and it's hard to do any of the things you (and the general culture here) expect people to do on day 1 when you don't have hours and hours. I mean, it can be a scumtell, but I don't agree with how strong you seem to read it. I guess I just don't think he's intentionally lurking, which is what your read implies, and so I'll wait until he says more when he's cuaght up.

Right now, MSU's the easy vote, and Riki just now putting a 3rd vote on him before he came back (3rd vote is the most popular place to look for mafia on my site) is not sitting well with me at all. No better than Cue's 3rd vote on Banks sat with me.

i'm a he btw

i don't think it does either, which is part of the reason why i haven't voted you yet

also, since there's still almost a day left until eod, i don't think the positions of people on the wagons or the wagons themselves to a lesser extent really matter that much

i know it's a culture thing but yeah

Oh you're planning on researching old games on him?

Ok!

Initial Town/Wolf (you are welcome bhuber) reads:

Achromatic - we played in game 2 atogether (I don't think I said hi to you yet) - he is getting nervous about people pegging him as town. Curious thing to say. For right now, benefit of the doubt, I have him in the town category.

bhuber2010 - you went balls to the wall on me as your first couple of posts, I like it. Very bold play and something I wouldn't do if I was mafia because it brings attention to yourself when you really don't want it. Town for right now.

DocEspana - I don't know why people are up your butt. Your posts about "everyone saying they are town" doesn't really correspond in my mind to the arguments people were making about "Doc says he doesn't do fluff posts". I didn't find it fluffy. There are people who are doing fluff posts to up their count and I will get to those in the next post. Town for right now.

I am afraid I am typing too slow for you all so next come some initial scum reads...

if it gets to a point where it's necessary then i would

too lazy to atm

what are your reasons for thinking he's town?

like are you just giving him the benefit of the doubt because he played in the same game as you or wut

who would you lynch atm?

cue?

this is my best scum game considering it's the only scum game I had a hand in winning in about two years or so. For a more traditional setup and more traditional play you can see this game (username explosiveforce) which I replaced out of which I chose because fontisan might remember it

This is a town game for comparison with a less role madness-y setup.

PROTIP: The ISO feature on Neo is at the very bottom right of the page.

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I mean like idk now looking back on these games maybe I'm underrating my scum game but I consider it to be "never post and hope people forget about you". I definitely enjoy playing as town or third-party a lot, lot more than scum. I can end up with no posts on certain days which would normally get you modkilled on other sites.

I just find it a nightmare to be scum, I already freeze as town too much (not just in Champions games, in all games in general) and as scum this manifests into "not posting at all". If you are looking at my ISOs do examine posting times a lot

MSU are you posting from a computer or mobile device?

dorian thanks for talking baout my reads. i'll find the cue post about road I agreed with.

Its interesting a lot of people are scum reading cue. I find him to be quite townie. I think that unless hes the GOAT wolf hes probably not a wolf. Maybe I'm underestimating him but that is kinda how I feel. By GOAT wolf i mean he thinks hes amazing at wolfing and thus feels no pressure to fit in which is clearly how hes playing.

I've heard that the third person is scum thing before is that really a thing? I need to look at the games to see if it lined up seems like a mega silly and easily manipulated read. Possibly more prevalent in games with majority lynch I imagine.

Well, yeah. The fact that end of day is so far away is why I haven't voted either of you for it yet, despite those 2 votes being the biggest things to jump out at me as scummy. The 50% longer day is also brutal for me in a vanilla game, because, while other things matter, the thing that matters the most to me on day one is where people's votes are when it's crunch time, and until it's crunch time, I feel like I'm just waiting for the important stuff to happen so I can get better reads from it.

Or you, yes. I think your vote is quite a bit sketchier than Cue's, but that's likely colored by the fact that you've grilled me much harder than anyone else so far. If the lynch were happening right now, would you leave your vote on MSU?

If I were to pick Cue, it would be because I'm not sure I'll ever have an easy time sorting out a read on him and his lynch would give me a decent amount of information.

laziness is kinda ****ty you should know that your last game you only had 1 day to be town so throwing around the laziness card on day 1 is kinda bull****. Shape up sir.

Do you think defaulting to initially town reads is generally a good idea?

Thanks for this. Did you feel you were frozen in the champs game 5?

I think I'm getting stood up Time to put on bridget Jones and eat ice cream and have a good cry.

Initial Scum/Mafia/Wolves (you are welcome bhuber...see, I read!)

Riki - you were the third vote - did you think I wouldn't come back with another 20+ hours? I found it....an odd vote. Two votes, one from my initial accuser and one from Banks with an interesting read and then one from you saying "It's been 3-4 hours" I did read all the posts but did I (this is honest and not sarcasm) miss where you gave your impression of me? Or was this you just using my own timing against me? You all move at breakneck speeds, something I actually thought about before joining the wildcards - it is muy frustrating.

SmartBomb:

I am with you on this....so I throw this back out:

QUOTE=SmartBomb;47256214]

I give you a solid 6/10 for having people's names in your post but not actually saying why they're scum or not and just talking about how they play

[/QUOTE]

This series of posts bothers me.

You didn't give any reason towards me but you pointed me out. I love being talked about but it just bothers me that you didn't call me either scum or neutral or town. No defense, just pointing out that I didn't give any definitive reads.

On the ??? list:
cue5c - I actually like reading what you post. You remind me of a player named ABF on my forums. He had this air about of him of not giving any flipping f&&ks but was deadly smart. But that air about him also made him dangerous because people ignored him. You are on the "too soon to tell" list.

TehBankertin - oh Banksy. Can I call you Banksy? Prolly not. You post a lot. It's brilliant if you are mafia because one would suspect that you wouldn't be called mafia because of all the attention you are bringing upon yourself. This is the champions circle though - it might be a good ploy to bring that sort of attention to yourself to deflect against any people calling you mafia. But you aren't being malicious about it - I like the way you post. So I put you in the "too soon to tell" list for right now.

Everyone else right now is just sorta neutral, a little lean to the left, a little lean to the right. Nothing definitive.