#2 Game of Mafia Champions (WW Invitational) - Game Thread - Page 4

I generally like the tone of well named's posts as well but I am hardwired to dislike the content that is more focused on generalities than specifics related to the game at hand. However, it's certainly true that he seemed rather eager to not talk about such things and has a quick, satisfying response to my inquiry about his interpretation of his interaction.

I see how he reaches his conclusion about VE, but I am still withholding any real judgment about his alignment due to the fact that VE is a wily wolf.

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10-17-2013 , 12:25 PM

#77

TommyDanger

journeyman

Join Date: Oct 2013 Posts: 295

Two jets ZOOM past each other, spinning into barrel rolls and launching missiles -- SCHOOOOOMMM!

Fireworks EXPLODE out of the ground -- BOOOOOMMM CRACKLECRACKLECRACKLE!!

15 thousand doves circle a dark figure.

They disperse, revealing --

Tommy Danger, pointing to different people in a crowd that only exists in his head.

Hold on to your socks, we're ready to rock. I've got an invitation for you, your mafia asses and my foot. I've got something you can snug. In my pants.

A monster truck zooms up behind him, hitting an unseen ramp and vaulting in the air, landing on 10 cop cars that are like, on fire and stuff. Totally bad ass fire, like the kind that flames up green and blue and ****. Their sirens start going off as the monster truck crushes them into a pulp.

LET'S KICK SOME ASS, BITCHES!

Tommy pulls out a machine gun and fires it wildly into the air! Probably killed a couple of doves by accident -- nah, they're fine actually. Phew, close one. Could've had PETA all up on our butts for that --

BOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOM!

Dynamite rains from the sky, exploding all over the damn place! Tommy shoots a grappling hook at a passing Apache helicopter and flies away, still firing a machine gun even though it's pretty evidently out of bullets.

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10-17-2013 , 12:26 PM

#78

TommyDanger

journeyman

Join Date: Oct 2013 Posts: 295

Quote:

Originally Posted by STS_za

I FOS Tommy

I feel at home already!

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10-17-2013 , 12:27 PM

#79

TommyDanger

journeyman

Join Date: Oct 2013 Posts: 295

Quote:

Originally Posted by STS_za

Is it just me, or do I not see no lynching as a real choice?

Why would it be? The only possible scenario would be very end-of-game where the numbers work out that you could no lynch to force another night kill and get some more information for the final lynch.

Other than that extremely specific scenario, I don't think it helps to not use the village's best tool for finding wolves/mafia, which is lynching them with the fury of 1000 suns. Or like, a rope.

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10-17-2013 , 12:28 PM

#80

yamato77

journeyman

Join Date: Oct 2013 Posts: 366

Quote:

Originally Posted by TommyDanger

As a general rule, I absolutely abhor constructed monstrosities such as this. Is this usual play out of him?

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10-17-2013 , 12:29 PM

#81

TommyDanger

journeyman

Join Date: Oct 2013 Posts: 295

Quote:

Originally Posted by Maki_

If we have people who can kill at night, then we don't need to make things harder for ourselves by accidentally killing a villager with a random lynch.

Usually day one in games I've played is where you see if anyone found a mafia/if the investigators found anything. Not sure how things usually go down around here though.

Lynching is the best tool we have for figuring things out. Particularly establishing voting records that we can look back on.

So no, I will not be voting to no lynch. I'm assuming this is a culture thing, so I'm not reading it as inherently evil, though.

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10-17-2013 , 12:29 PM

#82

TommyDanger

journeyman

Join Date: Oct 2013 Posts: 295

Quote:

Originally Posted by yamato77

As a general rule, I absolutely abhor constructed monstrosities such as this. Is this usual play out of him?

I like to make an entrance.

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10-17-2013 , 12:30 PM

#83

BLFG

grinder

Join Date: Oct 2013 Posts: 423

Can we lynch the dude who proposed no-lynch as the first post of the game?
STS_za

Well known writes many words but says very little. I am confused about VE's reading comprehension skills this game.

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10-17-2013 , 12:31 PM

#84

yamato77

journeyman

Join Date: Oct 2013 Posts: 366

So far it has been both conspicuous and unimpressive. I wait to see if you have anything of real value to add to the discussion of player's alignments.

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10-17-2013 , 12:32 PM

#85

TommyDanger

journeyman

Join Date: Oct 2013 Posts: 295

Quote:

Originally Posted by STS_za

We didn't have a night start though, so with a lack of a no lynch and so many good players around, the odds of cocking up are pretty high. we risk lynching a townie or we get a couple of townies to reveal their roles before we find werewolves.

it will be interesting to see how the different communities deal with this

We've coined a term for this: Lynch Chaos.

I think a good rule of thumb is that we like to have claims come in earlier rather than later. Say, if you're up well up top and it's an hour or so to lynch, then it's probably time to claim your role.

At the same time, having too many claims is generally bad. Locking evil into claims is GOOD, outing our own specials is NOT.

So what I tend to prefer is that we get maybe 1-2 claims of people we think are possible evils, and if we have to let a villager eat a lynch over outing more claims, that's the preferable way to go.

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10-17-2013 , 12:32 PM

#86

yamato77

journeyman

Join Date: Oct 2013 Posts: 366

Quote:

Originally Posted by BLFG

Can we lynch the dude who refuses to properly read the thread?

Rayn, I expect better from you.

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10-17-2013 , 12:41 PM

#87

BLFG

grinder

Join Date: Oct 2013 Posts: 423

What am i missing o' wise yamato?

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10-17-2013 , 12:41 PM

#88

TommyDanger

journeyman

Join Date: Oct 2013 Posts: 295

Quote:

Originally Posted by well named

Hello champions.

I am a villager. I look forward to crushing the souls of anyone unfortunate enough to have randed wolf in this game.

Re: d1 lynches

Chris pretty much said it. I don't think there's any reason to expect a lynch to be random either, although certainly the odds are fairly good that a villager gets lynched no matter how awesome we are. But I have seen and participated in plenty of d1 wolf lynches and I would encourage everyone to participate in today with the expectation that we can and should try to find a wolf.

One other thing, strategically, is that lynches are an extremely pro-village means of eliminating players from the game. Both because we control them by numbers, but also because deciding the lynch (not just d1, but every day) is the primary driver of the action, which forces people to post, interact, take stands, and become readable. I suppose a werewolf game in which the vast majority of players had powers could be played in a style where lynches were less important, because all the powers and mechanics could drive action. In POG at least most games of this size still have large numbers of vanilla villagers and a relatively constrained amount of killing powers and the lynch is very important. I don't know what the roleset is in this game, but I'm going to assume it's unlikely that lynches should be de-emphasized. TLDR: we lynch early, we lynch often, we lynch people that act like wolves. we win.

My opinion is the hardest part of the game with regard to finding people that are acting like wolves is that the wildly differing approaches to the game that we all have makes it hard to tell when people are speaking sincerely or not. Just as an example, around here, talking about d1 lynches being rand at the beginning of d1 is like an old-school wolf tell, given our culture, but when maki and STS talk about it they sound like they are being genuine in their opinions to me.

This strikes me as bizarre.

Why would you claim villager out of the gate and lower the pool for our good specials? There's no advantage to doing this, and there's literally no reason to believe you yet.

The whole "crushing the souls" bit sounds like you're actually an evil who is pretending to want to go after evils.

The rest of the post sounded ok to me, although discussing strategy is a very easy way to participate without having to make reads, so I'm keeping this fellow on the radar.

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10-17-2013 , 12:42 PM

#89

dbmurph22

old hand

Join Date: Feb 2007 Posts: 1,926

Quote:

Originally Posted by yamato77

So far it has been both conspicuous and unimpressive. I wait to see if you have anything of real value to add to the discussion of player's alignments.

I'm not going to defend my other site rep all game, but I do have general feelings re: this.

Honestly, I enjoyed following game #1, but I found it very non-humorous, dry, and detached in some respects. I play to win the game, but I play to play. I'm not going to sit here sucking on lemons because I want to impress people. So I will likely cackle in the face of efforts to create a humorless groupthink of endless strategy discussion only.

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10-17-2013 , 12:42 PM

#90

Vagos

Carpal \'Tunnel

Join Date: Nov 2003 Posts: 40,963

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10-17-2013 , 12:42 PM

#91

TommyDanger

journeyman

Join Date: Oct 2013 Posts: 295

Since we're all champions, there's obviously MANY reasons to do something like that. But I dunno, still felt off.

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10-17-2013 , 12:43 PM

#92

TommyDanger

journeyman

Join Date: Oct 2013 Posts: 295

Quote:

Originally Posted by dbmurph22

Pfft, who invited this wet blanket?

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10-17-2013 , 12:44 PM

#93

yamato77

journeyman

Join Date: Oct 2013 Posts: 366

Quote:

Originally Posted by BLFG

What am i missing o' wise yamato?

Well, in your post, you conveniently ignore the possibility that day 1 no lynching could be standard on either forums where roles are more prevalent.

You also managed to fail to comment on anyone's actual alignment, as is clearly possible given that I, and other players, have had things to say.

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10-17-2013 , 12:45 PM

#94

TommyDanger

journeyman

Join Date: Oct 2013 Posts: 295

Quote:

Originally Posted by VisceraEyes

Hey all. I'm totally town. Or Villager. Or whatever. Not Mafia. Or Wolf. Or whatever.

Reading peoples' bios, it seems like pretty much everyone is down-to-earth about their own skill level except for Yamato and I XD

I'd like to mention that I'm not only representing Team Liquid here, but I'm playing on behalf of OMGUS.net as well.

I would generally advocate a random lynch at this point on my home site, but I shall resist the urge and attempt to find scum instead this game. With fewer than a quarter of the players having posted already though, for now I'll leave you guys to the meeting and greeting of players as they arrive. Eventually though, I'd like to start hearing from people about who they find suspicious. For me, that's well named.

From his last post, I can't really tell whether he's for or against random lynching, in the first paragraph it kinda seems like he's against it, but when he says stuff like "although certainly the odds are fairly good that a villager gets lynched no matter how awesome we are" I'm not so sure. And from someone who says that where he comes from, considering an RNG lynch is an old-school wolf tell, I find his wishy-washiness on the subject to be pretty suspicious.

Well put. You and Well Named are not likely to be evil together, anyway.

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10-17-2013 , 12:46 PM

#95

dbmurph22

old hand

Join Date: Feb 2007 Posts: 1,926

I thought well known's tl;dr first post made a lot of sense. I haven't said much about it since I pretty much agree. The villager claim doesn't bother me either.

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10-17-2013 , 12:46 PM

#96

yamato77

journeyman

Join Date: Oct 2013 Posts: 366

Quote:

Originally Posted by dbmurph22

This is how I play town. Dry, humorless, and efficient.

Quote

10-17-2013 , 12:47 PM

#97

dbmurph22

old hand

Join Date: Feb 2007 Posts: 1,926

Quote:

Originally Posted by dbmurph22

I thought well known's tl;dr first post made a lot of sense. I haven't said much about it since I pretty much agree. The villager claim doesn't bother me either.

Well Named I mean.

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10-17-2013 , 12:48 PM

#98

Vagos

Carpal \'Tunnel

Join Date: Nov 2003 Posts: 40,963

sup new friends and old foes

I don't have much so far but here are some early tone reads:

Viscera- villagery, seems genuinely excited and inquisitive
well named- giant opening post is not really what I expected from him but I have no reason to believe it's wolfy for him really, slight villa lean

That's all I got really, will develop more reads as the game gets more of a flow going and gets past the stage where everyone describes how they play werewolf.

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10-17-2013 , 12:49 PM

#99

chrisrjdk

Carpal \'Tunnel

Join Date: Dec 2009 Posts: 13,941

So wn, you liked randing wolf this time or would you have rather be a villager and try to avenge last game?

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10-17-2013 , 12:50 PM

#100

well named

poorly undertitled

Join Date: Jun 2007 Posts: 78,077

another misunderstanding. The fact that I'm a villager does not mean that I'm not a villager with powers. I am not claiming anything other than that I win with the village

Also BLFG I disagree about STS. I am familiar with the argument that would say it's wolfy to propose no lynch, but the way he does it flows and feels more like a genuine villagery reaction to reading through the rules than a calculated wolf ploy. Especially the post about being sad. I think using "no lynch" on d1 would be a terrible strategy and anti-village, but I don't think the way he talked about it was wolfy at all.

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