Pretty good MQ Dar0, one thing I found curious was that you gave Ashington a "good votes" thumbs up for a VMF vote but failed to mention that his vote ultimately lands on Sooted. I realize Ash is pretty clear so it's probably irrelevant but it was curious to me.

.

Because they stopped from it being a runaway wagon and kept them even. That mq is essentially a retro blog except with complete information.

other peeps that were here right before the mq and have now disappeared:

tchaz

Woofchat wondering how things could go to **** so quickly IMO.

Answer: Dar0

A long response to Hardcore's case on me - since I see that at least Ashington and maybe Silman (both likely villas imo) are (somewhat) convinced by it. This is going to take most of the time I have for the game until late in the day today, which sucks .. but I think is better than leaving it unchallenged. (& sorry about all the typos still left)

Executive summary: every single point in Hardcore's case is invalid. Almost all of them because he has gone of the posts & background to them too fast (or not at all for some of the background and made (to be brutally honest, basic) mistakes in comprehension. I am (still) a villager




You are already misframing. This is my fourth post of the game. In the first I gave some reads on the first 4 pages ("Shark. LKJ, Forsy, Ash and Kruze as villagery, CDL, Tweedy and Hold'Em suspicious-to-wolfy" ... it turns out CDL was already a dead villager at this point .. lol), in the second I call Loosek villa-y and say I don't like Binkles in his interaction with Silman and zdye. In that second I asked for updates and Gad immediately tags me as a wolf.

This post was responding to BJL who asked (consequenty on Gad tunnelling me somewhat & othere mentioning that he had) if I had posted yet. It's summarising what I've done so far and trying to say what my perceptions of the then current activity in the game were and tell what I'm doing.

Clearly people try to read all kinds of things into what is "natural"/"free-flowing" and what is "contrived"/"stilted", and I'm not sure how reliably they do (especially when faced with someone they aren't used to (literally) reading. And obviously it's often harder to evaluate the impression one is making oneself. However I think it's pretty 'free-flowing'.

Btw, I stole the "I'm going to read/reading a random page" strategy from pogstar Binkles. I've seen him say he's doing this (& sometimes even given signs of having done it!) - as a way of getting the feel of what's going on without getting 100% of the details - in a couple of games I've sporadically railed.

So it may be absurd, but there was method in the madness.

I'm putting Shark and Kruze in parenthases they were also villa leans. LKJ, forsy, Ash and Loose were my villa leans - already given in my previous posts - where were voting slighted, and Shark and Kruze were villa leans - already given in my previous posts who weren't voting slighted. Notice that those were all of the people I had as villa leans up to that point. I wanted to be clear to answer either way of interpreting montecore's question. I didn't go into this much detail - explaining how the brackets worked - as (i) people in the thread at the time, and especially monte, presumably understood that the ones on the wagon were on the wagon and the others weren't on it. (ii) it was 3 minutes to EOD and so not much time to anotate my post - better to interact - amirite?

Imo, this is an example of where you are going to fast over the material and not reaching a more considered understanding what was going on. Ofc I know that you weren't in the game d1, let alone itt at EOD, but if you had been and followed what was going on there is no mystery.

Why did I have Kruze as villager-y? Again, I'm afraid that you're jumping to a conclusion without thinking things through. Obviously he's been a pain in the neck (from the village pov) the whole game, because his "contributions" simply make the thread harder to read and have seemingly little effect. And my view of him in terms of villa-non-villa has gone down over the last few days.

But you have to remember I have no meta with Kruze. So whilst I was reading the first few pages of the thread during d1, sure I see a vyk/chilltown/bakes incessant barrage style, but I didn't have a way (via meta) of placing that on the v-nv spectrum. And his first effective contribution to the game was to rustle CDL into what looked like wolfy meltdown. (And not only to me - Vagos didn't hero shot CDL, remember.) By the end of d1 the thread wasn't so much overrun by Kruze as by the vyk-gad-fest.

So, whilst Kruze may have looked anything but villagery to, to me - without the same knowledge of his specific game at this time he looks like a moderately villagery SE-hardposting (or whatever the correct description of this style is) sort.


Still true, btw!!

Unfortunately, you've misunderstood here again, through a combination of reading to fast & not thinking about what I wrote and not being in the game on d1.

If you had bothered to go and read d1 before starting to make cases on people (well, actually, specifically me, since I have vmf wolfy and not a strong opinion on dwetzel) you would have seen that Gadarene and Eurotrash had a conversation about whether arriving late in the thread on d1 and asking for information was a (newb) wolfy tell. (I guess if you later want to be obtuse and still pretend that I was/am making things up I can dig up the reference - I'm guessing its about p13??? - but others can verify if necessary.)

When I say, "I'm torn as to whether that is a wolf foreshadowing to be able to frame utr late arriving non-wolves or whether he really thinks that's a tell" I'm talking about Gadarene, not Eurotrash. The whole of the four paragraphs from "I was somewhat skeptical" to "not as much as I thought I might be" is me discussing Gad. It was, from my pov, and I think in general natural for me to focus on him because he was the one pushing my wagon the day before and in all likelihood would the next day. As a villager trying to avoid being mislynched it was very much in my interest to try to understand where my main pusher was "coming from". I started with a decent suspicion that he may be wolfy. Remember also (oh - well you weren't there and haven't read that bit, but, well, believe anyway) that vyk was screaming down the thread all d1 (and d2) that gad was a wolf. So it might have been convenient to fall in with that. However when I looked at gad that didn't seem to be such a strong case. I still had my guard up - and am thinking (possibly in a tin-foil-y way) about whether it might be a strong wolf's framing ploy, something he really thinks is a tell (or maybe a both, I suppose looking at it again now).

tl;dr

The point is: I'm not discussing Eurotrash at all here. I'm not claiming to have read up on Euro's interactions. I'm not making a read on Euro. Euro doesn't come into it at all except as a reasonably strong player who was Gad's interlocuter.

[fwiw, When Gad make his wolf read on me he then makes a post to Euro to say 'look - just what I was telling you about']

So your reason for saying the post doesn't look so villagery is based on misunderstanding what the post says because (a) you didn't have the d1 background of the Gad-Euro exchange and (b) failed to understand something that you should have been able to even without that - I think still because you are reading too fast - that the post (apart from the first para about Loose) was about Gad.

[fwiw, lol trying to read your mind, you may also have misled yourself because you now know that Euro was a wolf and Gad a villa]


Again this was answered in the thread, but mabye you skipped past it?
Nevertheless if you're making a case on me and I only have, idk, ~30 posts itt, so you could have read them, maybe?

moni asked me about this and I talked about the basis for those reads and told him .. well, let me just quote the post as this is so long already

Now you may or may not think that that is a good way of working, but short of me going back and rereading pp4-5 and creatively reconstructing my prejudices/thoughts that's what there is on my moni suspicions.

(Obviously - as my later posts show - his posting style isn't to my taste, but
I hope that that didn't influence me there.)


Ok, well we're just going to have to disagree about whether this flows "naturally". fwiw, I think that many other people itt have the same view and agree with you. My view is that it is free flowing for me. I could try to take a scalpel to my prose style, but even in this context that feels a little narcissistic.

Note: I had not re-read euro. You're building castles on the foundations of your previous miscomprenhensions.

But in any case what I wrote really was the case: I didn't have much of a feel for any of the 4 lead wagons, with a slight down on CT, and of the people I had as most suspicious (tweedy, binkles and hold'em), tweedy had already improved in my view and binkles got a marginal edge over hold'em.

You say I wasn't happy with a bunch of people, but we've just seen above that there were 4 - and these are reads mainly based on day 1. moni was not completely in that pile, d2 tweedy improved (or, more likely, my understanding of him improved) and that leaves 2 possible candidates for me to vote.

You also keep talking about "wolf reads". I wouldn't call them that, but "wolf leans". For me, when people say "read" they mean something much firmer. (Maybe this is just a difference of semantics.] I didn't have "a case" to make on binkles - nothing so solid, just some suspicious interactions. [fwiw, If necessary I think I could have (& can) find specific posts I didn't like, but I wasn't doing that work at the time.]

Accordingly, it's not really reasonable to ask why I haven't re-read binkles or euro or whoever. The only player I re-read specifically was Gad - and I explained long-windedly above why I did that.


All newbs are equal.

wtf.wtf.wtf. "Where did that come from" yourself. Where did I ever defend vmf?

This is another sloppy misrepresentation. Actually, this is so bad that I'm really starting to wonder about HardcoreUFO.

This is my long summary catch-up post at the start of d3
http://forumserver.twoplustwo.com/59...l#post35800733

In that I have vmf as on of a bunch of people who are" On the radar, but I don't know what you are:" (with TN, Hardcore, and RT).

This is me last night:

(I thought impressionistically that vmf had a poor week-end.)

Those are my only mentions of vmf. How can you spin that into
"defending variance for 'being villagery' "

Ok, I'm not going to start going through the re-read of LKJ's first day I did, or XXsuited or my catch-up post url/linked-ed above, which, together with the post about gad that you so badly misread, probably constitute the most detailed of my rather (thread-)bare work this thread. Obviously you didn't like them much, but thought they were "really really senseless wolfy" in the main. I can't see how, at all, but if anyone got this far and wondered they obviously aren't getting much in the way of help from you.

[By the way - you'll equally fail to find anything there wolfy if you read properly.]

Coda:

Here's hardcore working himself with no further info or analysis (albeit with one or two people nodding as they read his case) from "not as big a wolf lean as.." to "probably a lock wolf".

Rrrriigggghhhtttt.

Moral of the story: festina lente, or "If you don't slow down you're gonna crash" (The Primatives)

i'm not going to be unhappy with the way i played this game. i honestly did my best to put out the best reads i could. i haven't been 100% perfect. i think anybody with meta on me knows that i'm not a wolf here, especially henrik, vyk, tn... people who just played a pony game where i wolfed.

an isolated incident from my posting looks wolfy to people who haven't played with me much and aren't intently reading the thread. i can't do anything about that. i had a reason for every single move i made in that eod. and it's not hard to see. but i'm not going to do everyone's work for them. a bunch of people who aren't playing the game can gang up and try to wagon me, but they're wrong. and the lucid players are going to see it

holy jesus wall of text

that could explain why tchaz disappeared lol

lol tchaz

cliffs w.r.t loose? i missed one hour or so

ash, any prize?

Prize Update: 2.5 hours and still no prize notification.

Again, looshle is traveling so this could be why.

another player who should honestly be clearing me after pony+/

Please no one quote that tchaz post. It'll break my phone.

hmmmmmm

We need to hear from Big Country

Hold'em vaults to my villa pile with this find

I wonder why?

you guise,

[trying to fix some typos, ldo - skim my rebuttal pretty please]

...

i'm honestly kind of flattered that you guys really think i could have posted in such a clairvoyant manner as a wolf. so

thanks. my meta is going to be awesome in the future.

my three wagons yesterday were tanner/sooted/vmf

of the three i thought tanner and sooted were the two best.

that was my mindset playing eod. read it with that in your brain and it makes total sense.

gave up pretty easily

yea i realized that

holdem needs moar voats thoa

hmm

Ya, that looks pretty bad, can you explain this LK?

I dunno, I tend to believe LK is a villager here fwiw, maybe he has just fooled me this game.

On an unrelated note, I would really like to see Henrik and BJL participate more today.